A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer

Yakima 728
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Sorry in advance if this question is redundant.... I've read through this thread and thought I caught it before but just skimmed the whole thing again and didn't find it.

When brewing a middle of the road pale or IPA (or any other beer) should the acid malt replace a portion of the base malt or be in addition to the entire grain bill? I thought I read to substitute an equal portion of the base malt.

Is this correct?

Thanks!
 
As acid malt is usually a small percentage of the total grain bill (2 - 3%) it doesn't make much difference. The intent is that 2-3% of the total grist be acid malt. Acid malt is malt and so in addition to supplying lactic acid it does provide flavor. I think of it as a relatively light caramel malt as it is apparently 'cured' to some extent. So however you formulate your grain bill keep that in mind. If I had a 100 pound grist that needed its pH lowered by 0.3 pH I'd just add 3 lbs rather than take out 3 lbs of something else and replace with 3 lbs of sauermalz but you could do it that way too. Consistency is the important thing here.
 
Is there a substitution for Acid Malt? The problem is I don't want to use Lactic Acid. My wife is Vegan and stays away from all animal products, so since Lactic Acid is most likely derived from milk I need a substitute.
 
MTBbrewer said:
Is there a substitution for Acid Malt? The problem is I don't want to use Lactic Acid. My wife is Vegan and stays away from all animal products, so since Lactic Acid is most likely derived from milk I need a substitute.
Click to expand...

Phosphoric acid.

However, commercial lactic acid is not produced from milk, but generally by bacterial fermentation.
 
MTBbrewer said:
Is there a substitution for Acid Malt? The problem is I don't want to use Lactic Acid. My wife is Vegan and stays away from all animal products, so since Lactic Acid is most likely derived from milk I need a substitute.
Click to expand...

Do a sour mash with the prescribed percentage of the base malt the night before. The barley already has enough lactobacillus to make the required acid malt.
 
Has anyone ever worked with a sour mash? I found a couple of how to's on the BYO site. My biggest concern would be how to keep it warm for 2 to 4 days.
 
I have read the Brewing Water Chemistry Primer at the top and I have a question. I planned on brewing a Scottish Export 80 this weekend. I will be brewing with 100% RO water. The grain bill consists of: 8 lb 2-Row, 1 lb Crystal 40L, 8 oz Honey, 8 oz Crystal 120L, and 2 oz Chocolate. If I am reading the Primer correctly, since this has some darker malts I should be using the one that is for roasted malts. The one that says skip the sauermalz, and just use 1 tsp of Calcium Chloride.

If I am correct with the above information then my question is this, can I substitute Gypsum for the Calcium Chloride? The reason I ask is because I have Gypsum, but I had to order Calcium Chloride and it won't be in by this weekend. If that sounds like a bad idea than just say so, and I will wait until the Calcium Chloride comes in to brew.
 
MTBbrewer said:
I have read the Brewing Water Chemistry Primer at the top and I have a question. I planned on brewing a Scottish Export 80 this weekend. I will be brewing with 100% RO water. The grain bill consists of: 8 lb 2-Row, 1 lb Crystal 40L, 8 oz Honey, 8 oz Crystal 120L, and 2 oz Chocolate. If I am reading the Primer correctly, since this has some darker malts I should be using the one that is for roasted malts. The one that says skip the sauermalz, and just use 1 tsp of Calcium Chloride.

If I am correct with the above information then my question is this, can I substitute Gypsum for the Calcium Chloride? The reason I ask is because I have Gypsum, but I had to order Calcium Chloride and it won't be in by this weekend. If that sounds like a bad idea than just say so, and I will wait until the Calcium Chloride comes in to brew.
Click to expand...

I generally wouldn't. Gypsum and chloride affect the taste in very different ways. Personally, I'd wait to brew. But I'm sure there are others who would go for it anyways.
 
MTBbrewer said:
Has anyone ever worked with a sour mash? I found a couple of how to's on the BYO site. My biggest concern would be how to keep it warm for 2 to 4 days.
Click to expand...

I just did it overnight and it added plenty of sour into the Moylan's Kiltlifter clone
 
this thread has gone on for over 2 years, 78 pages. and AJ comes on here every day to answer questions from the technical to the obvious (like mine, for instance). the amount of patience needed alone, good god. thanx for providing so much help to so many for so long. :mug:
 
itsratso said:
this thread has gone on for over 2 years, 78 pages. and AJ comes on here every day to answer questions from the technical to the obvious (like mine, for instance). the amount of patience needed alone, good god. thanx for providing so much help to so many for so long. :mug:
Click to expand...

I agree and want to thank everyone who has help me with my question.
 
A. J.:

Loved your foreword in Water. I can't wait to read the rest of the book and see what you helped John and Colin with. I am sure it will "up my game" by a fair margin.
 
Thanks! It was harder to write than I thought it would be and I didn't have much time. I am most anxious to see the finished product but probably won't until I get back to the States.

Also anxious to see what the overall reaction to the book will be.
 
I have a question about water PH. I understand that the mash will most likely help to bring my mash PH into the 5.2 -5.5 range. I am using the water calculator on brewers friend to figure out my water for a Kolsch. I'm looking good on most all of my levels and my Chloride /Sulfate ratio is balanced. I am diluting my water to a ratio of 2/1 with distilled because my water's bicarbonate level is 210 mg/l. Great for a darker amber, not so good for a kolsch. My question is what does the dilution do to the PH? My water PH before dilution is 7.8 . I assume it will change when adding 2 parts distilled water to it and I'm also assuming a PH change will affect my RA. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
harebearva said:
I have a question about water PH. I understand that the mash will most likely help to bring my mash PH into the 5.2 -5.5 range. I am using the water calculator on brewers friend to figure out my water for a Kolsch. I'm looking good on most all of my levels and my Chloride /Sulfate ratio is balanced. I am diluting my water to a ratio of 2/1 with distilled because my water's bicarbonate level is 210 mg/l. Great for a darker amber, not so good for a kolsch. My question is what does the dilution do to the PH? My water PH before dilution is 7.8 . I assume it will change when adding 2 parts distilled water to it and I'm also assuming a PH change will affect my RA. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Strike water pH before mixing with the grist is irrelevant. What is relevant is the ion content of the strike water. I know there is a place to enter strike-water pH, but in playing around with this, it doesn't seems to matter as far as mash pH is concerned. RA is (usually) based on the concentrations of three ions: Ca, Mg, and bicarbonate. So when you dilute with distilled, the levels of these will decrease, bringing your RA closer to zero.
 
harebearva said:
I have a question about water PH. I understand that the mash will most likely help to bring my mash PH into the 5.2 -5.5 range.
Click to expand...

That depends on what you put into the mash. A typical Kölsch grist will not do that unless it includes some acidulated malt. And that's with low alkalinity water. If your water is alkaline you will need even more sauermalz.

harebearva said:
I am using the water calculator on brewers friend to figure out my water for a Kölsch. I'm looking good on most all of my levels and my Chloride /Sulfate ratio is balanced.
Click to expand...
Forget about chloride sulfate ratio and learn how much chloride and how much sulfate you need for this style. Kölsch is a delicate beer and usually doesn't do well with lots of sulfate present but some examples do have appreciable hop bite. I'd start low on the sulfate and work up to the level that gives the best tasting result.

harebearva said:
I am diluting my water to a ratio of 2/1 with distilled because my water's bicarbonate level is 210 mg/l. Great for a darker amber, not so good for a kolsch. My question is what does the dilution do to the PH? My water PH before dilution is 7.8 .
Click to expand...

You have water with alkalinity of 174. That represents a fair amount of buffering capacity. Diluting with something (DI water) that has none guess who wins. Your water pH will not change noticeably. But that isn't what matters. What matters is that your alkalinity will be reduced to approximately 1/3 of what it was before i.e. to 60. Things would be even better if you diluted 3:1 (alkalinity 45) or 4:1 (alkalinity 37). Then all you'd need to do is add a little CaCl2 and you'd be on your way to a good Kölsch. In a subsequent brew, after taste testing in the glass with some gypsum, you could add a bit of that if you liked the result.

harebearva said:
I assume it will change when adding 2 parts distilled water to it...
Click to expand...
No,it doesn't as explained above


harebearva said:
...and I'm also assuming a PH change will affect my RA.
Click to expand...

RA will change but that is primarily because of the alkalinity reduction (which reduces RA) and secondarily because the calcium concentration is decreased thus raising the RA. The former effect is much more potent than the latter so the net effect is a decrease in RA.
 
Thanks for the info AJ. If I dilute 3:1 it puts my profile at:
Ca-11.2
Mg-6
Cl-2.2
SO4-2.8
Alk-45

Adding 2 grams of CaCl and 2% acid malt brings it to:
Ca - 60
Cl - 87
SO4 - 3
alkalinity -4 (this seems to put the RA in the mid 40's which is good)


This seems to be pretty darn close to style and strangely enough is almost exactly what you recommend for this style in the first post of this thread, imagine that LOL. Essentially what I'm doing is brewing Jamil's JZ Fruh recipe. It doesn't call for any acidulated malt but am I correct in assuming that he didn't use my water and adjustment is the nature of brewing? Anyway, thanks for your help.
 
There are lots of ways to skin this cat. Home brewers went through a phase in which they relied on control of RA and that through calcium addition to set mash pH. We are wiser now and RA is reverting to its intended purpose: a means of comparing water supplies. I'd say recommendations for the use of sauermalz in normal brewing didn't become commonplace until perhaps 3 years ago. At least I don't recall seeing them before then. Strange, as the use of sauermalz (or, probably more frequently, sauergut) is apparently common practice in German brewing and has been for years.
 
Learning to use my water testing results to improve my beer is challenging.
I've read the entire thread, though was several months ago, and thought I'd post up a question.
Brewing this Sunday, AG Trippel. Here is the grist.
24# Pilsner Malt (1.7SRM)
0.5# Aromatic (19 SRM)
0.25# White Wheat (1.6 SRM)

Water options are either right from the tap (TAP) or R.O. (RO)

TAP Water
TDS 220
Na 7
Ca 49
Mg 12
Total Hardness as CaCO3 173
SO4-S 17
Cl 13
HCO3 144
Total Alkalinity as CaCO3 118

RO Water
TDS 29
Na 3
Ca 4
Mg 1
Total Hardness as CaCO3 14
SO4-S <1
Cl 1
HCO3 15
Total Alkalinity as CaCO3 12

So I'm trying to fiddle with the SS by Kai to figure out what additions I might need to bring my pH to 5.2-5.4 range. If I use 100% Tap Water the SS predicts 5.62pH and if I use 100% RO it predicts 5.53pH. I have a pH meter to use ( this would be the first time I've used one since high school chemistry, and college chem lab, many years ago). Kai's sheet looks like you can add in salts, pure acids (lactic or Phosphoric) and acid malt.
I have all the basic salts on hand and some phosphoric acid on hand.

Not really knowing what the best water formulation for this style is somewhat of a limitation for me to proceed. I think I should probably use the RO water entirely, because I will need some acidification to bring my pH down, and the tap water has far more Bicarbonate than the RO, which would obviously require more acid to overcome the buffering ability of the bicarbonate.

I am not sure if the RO water without some salt additions will result in a pleasing beer, but I am not sure what additions would help lower the pH AND also result in an appropriate tasting beer. It seems I should need to add some CaCl2 to the water, and probably either some acid malt or phosphoric acid.

my strike water is 9.47 gallons. In fiddling with the spreadsheet, adding 40 grams of CaCl will lower my predicted pH to 5.25, but the Cl level is just over 300 and the Ca level is nearing 180. Seems like I will require a blend of several factors, not just one alone, to achieve proper pH.

In case I don't get any specific suggestions, and in using the SS predictions, it seems that the following additions to the strike water will be balanced and achieve a fair pH.

10g MgS04 (Epsom Salt)
15g CaCl2
10ml 10% Phosphoric acid
0.5# Acid Malt
the predicted resultant values of the mash water are
68.8 Calcium (mg/l)
16.6 Magnesium (mg/l)
3.0 Sodium (mg/l)
61.8 Sulfate (mg/l)
115.7 Chloride (mg/l)
6.5 Bicarbonate (mg/l) *
-107.5 Alkalinity ppm as CaCO3

Predicted mash pH 5.26

One vexing question I have is the Aromatic malt (maltster unknown) says its kilned (115ºC) I believe this is different than roasting, or should I specify this as being roasted in the SS?

Any advice, suggestions, etc are much appreciated!

Thanks!

TD
 
TrickyDick said:
Learning to use my water testing results to improve my beer is challenging.
I've read the entire thread, though was several months ago, and thought I'd post up a question.
Brewing this Sunday, AG Trippel. Here is the grist.
24# Pilsner Malt (1.7SRM)
0.5# Aromatic (19 SRM)
0.25# White Wheat (1.6 SRM)

Water options are either right from the tap (TAP) or R.O. (RO)

TAP Water
TDS 220
Na 7
Ca 49
Mg 12
Total Hardness as CaCO3 173
SO4-S 17
Cl 13
HCO3 144
Total Alkalinity as CaCO3 118

RO Water
TDS 29
Na 3
Ca 4
Mg 1
Total Hardness as CaCO3 14
SO4-S <1
Cl 1
HCO3 15
Total Alkalinity as CaCO3 12

So I'm trying to fiddle with the SS by Kai to figure out what additions I might need to bring my pH to 5.2-5.4 range. If I use 100% Tap Water the SS predicts 5.62pH and if I use 100% RO it predicts 5.53pH. I have a pH meter to use ( this would be the first time I've used one since high school chemistry, and college chem lab, many years ago). Kai's sheet looks like you can add in salts, pure acids (lactic or Phosphoric) and acid malt.
I have all the basic salts on hand and some phosphoric acid on hand.

Not really knowing what the best water formulation for this style is somewhat of a limitation for me to proceed. I think I should probably use the RO water entirely, because I will need some acidification to bring my pH down, and the tap water has far more Bicarbonate than the RO, which would obviously require more acid to overcome the buffering ability of the bicarbonate.

I am not sure if the RO water without some salt additions will result in a pleasing beer, but I am not sure what additions would help lower the pH AND also result in an appropriate tasting beer. It seems I should need to add some CaCl2 to the water, and probably either some acid malt or phosphoric acid.

my strike water is 9.47 gallons. In fiddling with the spreadsheet, adding 40 grams of CaCl will lower my predicted pH to 5.25, but the Cl level is just over 300 and the Ca level is nearing 180. Seems like I will require a blend of several factors, not just one alone, to achieve proper pH.

In case I don't get any specific suggestions, and in using the SS predictions, it seems that the following additions to the strike water will be balanced and achieve a fair pH.

10g MgS04 (Epsom Salt)
15g CaCl2
10ml 10% Phosphoric acid
0.5# Acid Malt
the predicted resultant values of the mash water are
68.8 Calcium (mg/l)
16.6 Magnesium (mg/l)
3.0 Sodium (mg/l)
61.8 Sulfate (mg/l)
115.7 Chloride (mg/l)
6.5 Bicarbonate (mg/l) *
-107.5 Alkalinity ppm as CaCO3

Predicted mash pH 5.26

One vexing question I have is the Aromatic malt (maltster unknown) says its kilned (115ºC) I believe this is different than roasting, or should I specify this as being roasted in the SS?

Any advice, suggestions, etc are much appreciated!

Thanks!

TD
Click to expand...

I recommend using Bru'n Water and treating aromatic as crystal malt for the purpose of the spreadsheet.
 
afr0byte said:
I recommend using Bru'n Water and treating aromatic as crystal malt for the purpose of the spreadsheet.
Click to expand...

OK. Thanks.

I'm working through the Bru'N Water SS now.

Question #1 about Bru'n Water. What is a good water profile to select for a Trippel? I didn't see Westmalle on the list. Yellow balanced? Not sure.

Thanks again.
If I have further quesitons, I will add them below.

TD

edit-
so in choosing the yellow balanced profile and matching my water as closely as possible (I cheated and used beersmith to obtain calculations), here is what I end up with. Using Bru'n Water.

Mash Parameters
Batch Volume (gal) 11.00 Hardness (ppm as CaCO3) 164 RA (ppm as CaCO3) -41
Estimated Mash pH 5.3 Alkalinity (ppm as CaCO3) 1 SO4/Cl Ratio 1.36

Additions Total Mash Water Vol (gal) 9.47 Total Sparge Water Vol (gal) 7.17
Mash Dilution Vol (gal) 0.00 Sparge Dilution Vol (gal) 0.00
Mash Water Additions Sparge Water Additions
Mineral (grams) (grams)
Gypsum (CaSO4) 2.8 2.2
Epsom Salt (MgSO4) 2.8 2.2
Canning Salt (NaCl) 0.2 0.1
Baking Soda (NaHCO3) 0.0 Not Recommended
Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) 3.8 2.9
Chalk (CaCO3) 0.0 Not Recommended
Pickling Lime (Ca(OH)2) 0.0 Not Recommended
Magnesium Chloride (MgCl2) 0.0 0.0
Acid (mL) (mL)
Phosphoric 10.00 % 7.6 3.6

I also added 0.5# acid malt to the grist to get the mash pH to 5.3 without the acid malt its up at 5.5

So, aside from the additions to target my RO water to the "yellow balanced" profile, are there any parameters out of whack? RA -41 seems to be an outlier.

Thanks for any recommendations/suggestions.

I guess my biggest question at this point is, is the yellow balanced a good profile for a Trippel, or is there another I should attempt to match? Also, any need to be concerned about the -41 RA value (methinks not).

TD
 
TrickyDick said:
OK. Thanks.

I'm working through the Bru'N Water SS now.

Question #1 about Bru'n Water. What is a good water profile to select for a Trippel? I didn't see Westmalle on the list. Yellow balanced? Not sure.

Thanks again.
If I have further quesitons, I will add them below.

TD
Click to expand...

I don't generally bother with the profiles, but you want one that has as little alkalinity as possible, some chloride, low (or no) sulfate, and calcium at 50+. You'll also likely need some acid/acid malt. Basically a tripel is just about ideal for the primer's recommendations.
 
As this is the Primer thread you should expect the guidance: follow the Primer. That would say use RO water with some calcium chloride and or calcium sulfate (total of 5 grams, 1 tsp, or less per gallon e.g. 2.5 g of each or 5 grams of one or the other.) You don't rely on minerals to set mash pH (you note that they have an effect and account for that, however). Acid is used to set the pH. Following the Primer's advice you would use 2-3% sauermalz to to that. The idea behind the Primer is simplicity. You can make it much more complicated if you want to by using one or another of the spreadsheets and calculators which are available.

Your brew day is not a good time to learn how to use a pH meter. If you have time before brew day the best approach is to familiarize yourself with the operation of the meter. We hope it will be like riding a bicycle. There are some tips at https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ph-meter-calibration-302256/. When comfortable that you can make a valid, stable, calibrated reading (just reading back the calibrating buffers will do) then make a small test mash with the grist you plan to use and some of the prepared water at the planned strike temperature. Adjust your sauermalz or acid additions according to the pH of the test mash.
 
Thanks!

Yeah, it had been awhile since I read through the primer, so I guess I should've done that first.
Thanks also for the links on pH probes. I'll read those through.

Right now I think I'm pretty close to the primer guidelines, but I think my Ca additions may be off based on primer recommendations vs those complicated spreadsheets.

TD
 
You can't really be that far 'off' the Primer recommendations as the Primer doesn't specify a tight calcium requirement. The Primer is based on the philosophies
1) KISS
2) We don't really care that much about calcium (no, we don't believe your beer will be wombat pee if you don't have at least 50 mg/L) but we do want a minimum level of chloride
3) Nobody complains about chloride until it gets pretty high but lots of people don't like the effects of sulfate (but lots do) so start with calcium chloride and work up the sulfate
4) Less is better
5) If we posted what we really think (about half the levels in the Primer), we'd have no credibility.
 
ajdelange said:
You can't really be that far 'off' the Primer recommendations as the Primer doesn't specify a tight calcium requirement. The Primer is based on the philosophies 1) KISS 2) We don't really care that much about calcium (no, we don't believe your beer will be wombat pee if you don't have at least 50 mg/L) but we do want a minimum level of chloride 3) Nobody complains about chloride until it gets pretty high but lots of people don't like the effects of sulfate (but lots do) so start with calcium chloride and work up the sulfate 4) Less is better 5) If we posted what we really think (about half the levels in the Primer), we'd have no credibility.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

I ended up using that bru'n water spread sheet. I found the water profile for the beer in a book, and matched my water as closely as I could. I couldn't figure a way to conduct a sample mini mash because I could not be sure the acid malt would be evenly distributed. In retrospect I suppose I could've gone with the percentages and crushed a smaller grist for testing. However, I didn't. I used the pH meter for first time, and was easy to figure out. measured pH was exactly as predicted by the spreadsheet, even including the acid additions to the water. Added some CaCl to the boil kettle.

Thanks for the help and info!

TD
 
Hi Everybody. I am a newish brewer (4 months) and just did my 10th 6 gallon all grain batch on Saturday. I was brewing a hoppy blonde. This was my first batch where I was going to measure PH and try to use a water "recipe". Previously, all I have done is use bottled spring water and added a TB of the PH 5.2 product.

I used the water chemistry calculator at brewer's friend targeting the profile "light and hoppy" which instructed me to use 8.75 gallons of distilled water and to add 2.75 tsp of gypsum and 1 tsp of calcium chloride. I did this to the letter and then added my grains to mash. I used Precision Labs test strips which indicated my PH was very low... under 4.6. I slowly added chalk (5tsp) and kept testing with no change. I then moved to baking soda and added 2 tsp. This finally got my test strips to register a PH of 5.

When I enter those additions into the brewer's friend calculator, it reports that my water profile is crazy unbalanced.

Should I have left the PH alone? Is there a best process that differs from what I did? Did I destroy my beer? I hit my numbers just fine and it is fermenting like crazy.

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all.

bitterblonde.jpg
 
Frazeart said:
I used Precision Labs test strips which indicated my PH was very low... under 4.6.
Click to expand...
This was your first mistake. Test strips just don't seem to work with mash - perhaps it is the coloration of the mash/wort itself. It is very unlikely that your mash pH was as low as 4.6 with what I presume is a grain bill of light malts. In fact it was probably around 5.6.

Frazeart said:
I slowly added chalk (5tsp) and kept testing with no change.
Click to expand...

This was your second mistake. Chalk is ineffective at raising mash pH because it takes a long, long time to react. In fact it takes so long that you are likely to make another mistake like...

Frazeart said:
I then moved to baking soda and added 2 tsp. This finally got my test strips to register a PH of 5.
Click to expand...
What happens here is that the carbonate, which doesn't react very fast doesn't raise pH but the bicarbonate does. Since you would most probably need acid rather than alkali for this beer the bicarb will push the pH too high. Then, after you have sailed on under the assumption that all is OK because of the erroneous pH strip reading the carbonate will begin to react raising it still higher. This won't happen fast enough to damage things further in the mash but will raise the kettle and fermenter pH (unless the chalk particles are large enough that they get trapped in the grain bed during sparge in which case the additional damage is limited to the vorlauf/sparge phase). Thus your beer will have mashed, boiled and fermented at too high a pH. It may be drinkable but don't expect it to be the best beer you have ever made.



Frazeart said:
When I enter those additions into the brewer's friend calculator, it reports that my water profile is crazy unbalanced.
Click to expand...

If you tell a spreadsheet that you are adding chalk and baking soda to DI water and it comes back and says there is an ionic imbalance there is a problem with the spreadsheet. What it should tell you is that the mash pH was way too high as indeed it most probably was. In the early days many of the spreadsheets did not handle the stoichimetry of chalk properly. Most have, AFAIK, been corrected to recognize that carbonate ion is divalent but most don't, again AFAIK, account for the reaction of the calcium in chalk with malt derived phosphate.

Frazeart said:
Should I have left the PH alone?
Click to expand...
Yes.

Frazeart said:
Is there a best process that differs from what I did?
Click to expand...
As this is the Primer thread we would presume that you would have followed the recommendations of the Primer though there is no claim that that is the best way to procede. These would have had you add some calcium chloride and some gypsum with some sauermalz (acid).


Frazeart said:
Did I destroy my beer?
Click to expand...
Probably not but you doubtless diminished it.

Frazeart said:
I used the water chemistry calculator at brewer's friend targeting the profile "light and hoppy" which instructed me to use 8.75 gallons of distilled water and to add 2.75 tsp of gypsum and 1 tsp of calcium chloride. I did this to the letter and then added my grains to mash.
Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

The difference between the Primer and the Brewer's Friend approaches (which are clearly similar) is that the latter tells you what is best for "light and hoppy" whereas the Primer gives you recommendations that are intended to serve as a starting point and encourages you to adjust additions until you find out what is indeed best for you in this style.
 
ajdelange said:
This was your first mistake. Test strips just don't seem to work with mash - perhaps it is the coloration of the mash/wort itself. It is very unlikely that your mash pH was as low as 4.6 with what I presume is a grain bill of light malts. In fact it was probably around 5.6.



This was your second mistake. Chalk is ineffective at raising mash pH because it takes a long, long time to react. In fact it takes so long that you are likely to make another mistake like...


What happens here is that the carbonate, which doesn't react very fast doesn't raise pH but the bicarbonate does. Since you would most probably need acid rather than alkali for this beer the bicarb will push the pH too high. Then, after you have sailed on under the assumption that all is OK because of the erroneous pH strip reading the carbonate will begin to react raising it still higher. This won't happen fast enough to damage things further in the mash but will raise the kettle and fermenter pH (unless the chalk particles are large enough that they get trapped in the grain bed during sparge in which case the additional damage is limited to the vorlauf/sparge phase). Thus your beer will have mashed, boiled and fermented at too high a pH. It may be drinkable but don't expect it to be the best beer you have ever made.





If you tell a spreadsheet that you are adding chalk and baking soda to DI water and it comes back and says there is an ionic imbalance there is a problem with the spreadsheet. What it should tell you is that the mash pH was way too high as indeed it most probably was. In the early days many of the spreadsheets did not handle the stoichimetry of chalk properly. Most have, AFAIK, been corrected to recognize that carbonate ion is divalent but most don't, again AFAIK, account for the reaction of the calcium in chalk with malt derived phosphate.


Yes.


As this is the Primer thread we would presume that you would have followed the recommendations of the Primer though there is no claim that that is the best way to procede. These would have had you add some calcium chloride and some gypsum with some sauermalz (acid).



Probably not but you doubtless diminished it.



The difference between the Primer and the Brewer's Friend approaches (which are clearly similar) is that the latter tells you what is best for "light and hoppy" whereas the Primer gives you recommendations that are intended to serve as a starting point and encourages you to adjust additions until you find out what is indeed best for you in this style.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for taking the time to so clearly answer my questions. In this age of message boards full of snarky, no account gremlins, it is so refreshing to get a genuine, helpful mentor.

Many thanks!!!! I will start with your primer and continue the journey.

PS. One last note... I don't know if it helped or not, but I did also use a tablespoon of the "5.2 ph buffer" product in this brew. If I did indeed raise my PH too high with the additions, hopefully that product mitigated the damage.
 
Frazeart said:
.
PS. One last note... I don't know if it helped or not, but I did also use a tablespoon of the "5.2 ph buffer" product in this brew. If I did indeed raise my PH too high with the additions, hopefully that product mitigated the damage.
Click to expand...

In this case the 5.2 would help. The monobasic phosphate ion in 5.2 is acidic relative to chalk and bicarbonate and would mitigate their effects somewhat but see https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/5-2-ph-stabilizer-whats-436563/ before ordering a drum of this stuff.
 
ajdelange said:
Go to the canning section of your supermarket and buy some 'pickle crisp'. That is calcium chloride.
Click to expand...

Just wanted you to know that this post may have just saved my weekend of brewing.

LHBS didn't have any Calcium Chloride, they gave some 'Burton Salts' used to reproduce the famous Burton water, but I was dubious about using them for my IIPA I wanted to brew since following the primer has worked so well for me so far.

*edit: So three different grocery stores did not have this and tried to sell me pickling salt. Finally found some at Walmart. Let me tell you, going to Walmart during holiday shopping season on a Saturday was almost enough to get me to drown myself in my own homebrew. But at least I found what I needed!
 
Yooper said:
By Ajdelange


...

The following recommendations apply to “soft” water. Here we will define soft as meaning RO or distilled water or any water whose lab report indicates alkalinity less than 35 (ppm as CaCO3 – all other numbers to follow mg/L), sulfate less than 20 (as sulfate – Ward Labs reports as sulfur so multiply the SO4-S number by 3 to get as sulfate), chloride less than 20, sodium less than 20, calcium less than 20 and magnesium less than 20. If your water has numbers higher than these, dilute it with RO or DI water. A 1:1 dilution reduces each ion concentration to 1/2, a 2:1 dilution to 1/3 and so on. If your water contains chloramines add 1 campden tablet per 20 gallons (before any dilution)

Baseline: Add 1 tsp of calcium chloride dihydrate (what your LHBS sells) to each 5 gallons of water treated. Add 2% sauermalz to the grist.

Deviate from the baseline as follows:

For soft water beers (i.e Pils, Helles). Use half the baseline amount of calcium chloride and increase the sauermalz to 3%

For beers that use roast malt (Stout, porter): Skip the sauermalz.

For British beers: Add 1 tsp gypsum as well as 1 tsp calcium chloride

For very minerally beers (Export, Burton ale): Double the calcium chloride and the gypsum.

...
Click to expand...

Maybe I am being too picky here. If I am, please let me know and I will release my ADD.

I am going to brew a classic Amber Ale. How do I figure out what additions based upon the above info I need? I have sought to find the water style I need but am unable to find it.
 

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