Coloradoan Single Tier Build

Hey everyone. After many hours of drooling over some of the DIY Single tier systems on this site, I have decided to start building my own. It is inspired by the many projects and ideas on this forum. I'm going to build a 3 pump design like JonW; I just like the simplicity the extra pump provides. Been working on the stand for about a month now. Stay tuned for more updates.

Getting three kegs from a local brewery at $10 each inspired me to start the project. I was on the waiting list for 3 months.
http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg640/bensomogyi/IMG_0131.jpg

First Keg is cut



All three kegs with lids.



Welded in couplers for bottom valves.



Picked up the steel for the stand. Decided to go with 2x2x.109 It will be bomb proof.



Stand is welded and cleaned up.

Kegs and the stand.



Cleaned up one keg. What a pain in the %$@! Labor of love I guess.



Got banjo burners in and fabricated mounts.



Turned out pretty good. Adjustable from 3.5" up to melt the bottom of the kettle off.



All the kegs are now polished.



Gas Lines are in:



Burner Test



Close up of Gas valves.



Fabricated a control panel arm.

That's coming along nicely. Kegs look especially awesome

Are you going with low pressure or high pressure gas?

Cheers!

Looking good, are you gonna be using the bcs 460 like jonW? I just finished painting my stand today, what kind of gas valves are those?

I'm using high pressure propane. Was going to go with NG, but decided otherwise. The valves are solenoid valves that jonW used. I can post the link if you can't find it in his thread. I also decided to design a control panel instead of using the BCS. I like the mechanical idea of pushing buttons and didn't want to have to network the stand if I took it away from home.

I'm painting soon. Gotta finish the control panel mount today.

day_trippr said:

That's coming along nicely. Kegs look especially awesome

Are you going with low pressure or high pressure gas?

Cheers!

Click to expand...

Thanks! Kegs were a pain and the polishing compound made quite the mess.

bsomogyi said:

Thanks! Kegs were a pain and the polishing compound made quite the mess.

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Ahahaha! Yeah, been there, discovered that, and it took me a couple of days to wash the fine grey/black coating off everything in my work shop.

If you could post a link for those valves - or the jonW build thread if that has the same info - I'd appreciate it.

I don't see a pilot or an ignition system. How are you going to inspire fire to happen?

Cheers!

This is the link to the valves I purchased.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-Brass-Electric-Solenoid-Valve-110-120-VAC-Water-Air-Fuels-Gas-VITON-B21V-/290716195361?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b0091a21#ht_2096wt_907

Here is the jonW thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/single-tier-3-pump-bcs-462-automated-rig-204705/

As for fire. I'm planning to use bbq ignitors. My plan is to fire the bbq ignitors off of time delayed SSR's for several seconds when the solenoid valves get opened for gas. I think the time delayed SSRs will work, but I haven't figured that all out yet. I have somewhat of a plan, but it changes daily.

Looking very nice! keep us updated on your progress.

Looking great fellow CO brewer! looking forward to updates with more pics!

bsomogyi said:

This is the link to the valves I purchased.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-Brass-Electric-Solenoid-Valve-110-120-VAC-Water-Air-Fuels-Gas-VITON-B21V-/290716195361?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b0091a21#ht_2096wt_907

Here is the jonW thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/single-tier-3-pump-bcs-462-automated-rig-204705/

As for fire. I'm planning to use bbq ignitors. My plan is to fire the bbq ignitors off of time delayed SSR's for several seconds when the solenoid valves get opened for gas. I think the time delayed SSRs will work, but I haven't figured that all out yet. I have somewhat of a plan, but it changes daily.

Click to expand...

I have a similar set up but use hot surface ignitors instead of spark ignitors. The key is to have 2 sets of 2 timer relays. One for the solenoids and the other for the spark/hot surface ignitors. I have a small video of mine working.... I'll see if I can't post it today.

Ok.. Here is the link of how the hot surface ignitor operates. I was explaining to my dad how my stand works in the video. He too has a Brutus but uses a pilot system instead.



Let me know if you want me to take a photo of the relays that control the solenoid valve and igniter.

Kyled93 said:

I have a similar set up but use hot surface ignitors instead of spark ignitors. The key is to have 2 sets of 2 timer relays. One for the solenoids and the other for the spark/hot surface ignitors. I have a small video of mine working.... I'll see if I can't post it today.

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Thanks for the video. Very nice! I'm not sure i understand what the timer relays are being used for on the solenoids. Is that to allow the surface igniters to heat up? Do you think it would work to just use a grill ignitor on a time delayed ssr with the solenoids firing from a regular ssr? Any advantage using the surface igniters over regular spark igniters?

Rather than silently hit the subscribe button I'll send ya a vote of excitement as well:

Build on man! I'm subscribed for the long haul.

bsomogyi said:

Thanks for the video. Very nice! I'm not sure i understand what the timer relays are being used for on the solenoids. Is that to allow the surface igniters to heat up? Do you think it would work to just use a grill ignitor on a time delayed ssr with the solenoids firing from a regular ssr? Any advantage using the surface igniters over regular spark igniters?

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The main reason for the timed relays is when the PID gives the signal to turn on, the igniter needs time to heat up prior to the gas being turned on. Then the 2nd relay allows for the valve to open. With what you are trying to do, I think the delayed SSR would work. That being said, those are usually non adjustable and you might want some adjustability on when the spark starts and ends as well as we the solenoid valve opens. The relays I have allow for time adjustments from .5 of a sec to 30 secs allowing for me to dial in the system.

I'll have to check but one of the relays has a momentary on for the igniter otherwise the igniter ends up just staying on.


The relays I have, I want to say are micromatic, I will have to check tonight and try to post some more photo's.

Kyled93 said:

The main reason for the timed relays is when the PID gives the signal to turn on, the igniter needs time to heat up prior to the gas being turned on. Then the 2nd relay allows for the valve to open. With what you are trying to do, I think the delayed SSR would work. That being said, those are usually non adjustable and you might want some adjustability on when the spark starts and ends as well as we the solenoid valve opens. The relays I have allow for time adjustments from .5 of a sec to 30 secs allowing for me to dial in the system.

I'll have to check but one of the relays has a momentary on for the igniter otherwise the igniter ends up just staying on.


The relays I have, I want to say are micromatic, I will have to check tonight and try to post some more photo's.

Click to expand...

Not sure I will go with a surface ignitor or not. Though I would be interested some more photos. Thanks!

Got a the control panel mounted up over the past few days.

Mount a 5x5 plate:


Welded up some extra support:



Decided to remove the hinges and go with an arm directly welded to the stand. i like the stability.



The control panel is 20x16x10. A bit big, but should be able to put together a nice layout with room to wire.



Planning to buy some casters now and paint. She is getting a bit to heavy to keep lifting. :cross:

Your build is looking great, I can't wait to see it finished!

The build is going great! Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

Looks really great!

Built my control panel with a 20x16x8. Lots of room in that thing! The 2 extra inches in depth will help, but not absolutely needed.

Love the polish on the Kegs. I MUST take the time to do this to mine. Did you follow the steps outlined by BobbyM?

Sorry for the post-a-thon

I just noticed you were in Erie, Co. My brother in law lives just across Hwy 36 from where you are. He is in Superior. Beautiful area up there.

Very, very nice! I like the top kettle support design, looks cool. Good thing you removed those hinges - I was going to comment that the plastic bushings might melt out of them over time (as they did on my tippy dump).

Are you driving the hot surface igniters with power directly or are you using a HSI control module? Any specs on them? Voltage, current draw, etc. How long do they take to charge to full hot before you can fire the burner?

Looking forward to seeing the final project!

nice shop and rig... are you part of the brew club up in Longmont?? If not you should check it out I have been to 2 meeting so far and they are great people

I don't mean to thread jack or take away from your awesome rig, but since there seems to be some interest in hot surface, I will share my experiences. I am using hot surface ignition with the honeywell s8910u modules, and glowfly universal ignitors. The module is supplied with 24 vac to operate the valve as well as 110v to fire the hsi.

Upon call for heat...the module starts a 32 second prepurge, then the ignitor fires and the module gives it 30 some seconds to heat up at which point the valve is activated, burner fires and and the ignitor shuts off. There is also a flame rectification circuit on these modules.

The time from call for flame to flame is just a little over a minute, but i think that is fine, I don't think the amount of heat lost in that minute would be measurable. I decided to go with them because I like the idea of flame rectification, and a member here decided to go with spark ignition and made me a great deal on the parts. Here is a shot of the burner with ignitor glowing just before igniton of the main burner,

I think the amp draw on the ignitor is less than 5 amps, but I would have to double check that to be sure, if you look close, you can see the flame sensor just to the left of the ignitor...cheers to a great build, looking forward to the final product

Huaco said:

Built my control panel with a 20x16x8. Lots of room in that thing! The 2 extra inches in depth will help, but not absolutely needed.

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Thanks guys! Huaco, did you go with the design from the electric brewery? I'm gonna use that PID setup and the temperature probes. Looks like a decent deal to order the unassembled probes from him. Any regrets?

Huaco - Colorado is pretty sweet. My wife and I absolutely love it. And that is cool that your brother in law is just down the road. Does he homebrew? And yes, I did follow BobbyM's guidelines for the kegs. It was borning getting them shined up, but the process worked pretty nicely.

JonW - Thanks for the stand inspiration man. Your design is exceptional. The hinges had to go on mine and good call on those plastic bushings. As for the ignitors, I was planning on driving them with time delayed SSRs. Although I haven't figured if I will go with a spark ignitors or surface ignitors like wncbrewer used. When I start planning electronics (just around the corner) I will have more on specs.

wncbrewer - no worries on the post man. You have a great ignition design. Thanks for the elaboration and I may steal some ideas.:rockin:

ajm163 - Thanks man. I haven't joined up to a club yet, but I've been thinking about it. I've been working full time and going to grad school so my limited time has been spent brewing, building or hanging with the wife. Trying to balance those can be difficult, because I want to split up the time in thirds between the activities but she doesn't seem to think that is fair. Ha! Is the club the Indian Peaks Alers?

Yes it's the Indian peak alers they meet the second wednesday of the month at the left hand brewery. I'm having a blast so far only been to two meetings

bsomogyi said:

Thanks guys! Huaco, did you go with the design from the electric brewery? I'm gonna use that PID setup and the temperature probes. Looks like a decent deal to order the unassembled probes from him. Any regrets?

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Yes. I ordered the 50Amp Back to Back kit from him as well as the Temp Probe/cable kit. If you build your system around Kal's except for the propane fired burners, that is... You REALLLLLLLLY need to heed his design and placement of the temp sensors. His design is based on reading temps with the fluids FLOWING past the sensor. Both your pumps will run most of the time to accomplish this.

Let me know if you need CAD files. Or dimensioned drawings. This is my layout (minus the temp probes. I moved them back to the bottom like Kal advises) I had my Panel door waterjet cut and I have that DXF file or you can lay it out however you like and I will create a DXF for your custom needs and send the file to you to give to a waterjet cutter in your area.

bsomogyi said:

Huaco - Colorado is pretty sweet. My wife and I absolutely love it. And that is cool that your brother in law is just down the road. Does he homebrew? And yes, I did follow BobbyM's guidelines for the kegs. It was borning getting them shined up, but the process worked pretty nicely.

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Actually, My BIL is a Marine career Recruiter. He worked the Superior/Boulder area. He is on leave to be transferred to Upstate NY for a while and he will commute back to Superior about every third week. He does not have long left in the Marines till retirement. I really want him to come brew a few batches with me. I bet he would get bit by the bug.

Good job on the kegs. I will have to just break down and do that to mine!

It's been a while since the last post. Got good news and I'm gonna be a dad this April. So I had to turn up the pace on finishing grad school which has pretty much destroyed my weekends. Anyways- got er painted up today. Planning to do some more work over the holidays. I'm going to brew a partial mash tomorrow on the stand to test the engine paint and burners.

Congratulations on becoming a dad! Looks great.

wncbrewer said:

I don't mean to thread jack or take away from your awesome rig, but since there seems to be some interest in hot surface, I will share my experiences. I am using hot surface ignition with the honeywell s8910u modules, and glowfly universal ignitors. The module is supplied with 24 vac to operate the valve as well as 110v to fire the hsi.

Upon call for heat...the module starts a 32 second prepurge, then the ignitor fires and the module gives it 30 some seconds to heat up at which point the valve is activated, burner fires and and the ignitor shuts off. There is also a flame rectification circuit on these modules.

The time from call for flame to flame is just a little over a minute, but i think that is fine, I don't think the amount of heat lost in that minute would be measurable. I decided to go with them because I like the idea of flame rectification, and a member here decided to go with spark ignition and made me a great deal on the parts. Here is a shot of the burner with ignitor glowing just before igniton of the main burner,

I think the amp draw on the ignitor is less than 5 amps, but I would have to double check that to be sure, if you look close, you can see the flame sensor just to the left of the ignitor...cheers to a great build, looking forward to the final product

Click to expand...

The issue you will run into with HSI is the igniters won't last long after they get water and wort on them. I would recommend some sort of shield over them to reduce the exposure

Needed to start pricing the fittings for the fluid design so I put together a design (the engineer in me). I decided to go with the switches like JonW, but with center inlet chuggers. Planning to put my temperature probes directly into each keggle instead. Let me know if any of you see any flaws. The build has slowed as I'm hitting the expensive parts. Maybe the tax man will be nice.

incredible amazing work....wish I had that kind of ability to make something like that

Very nice drawing. What QD's are you going to use? Williams Brewing has the SS ones like MoreBeer, but less expensive. I bought a couple of them and they are interchangable with the MoreBeer ones. The quality is not quite as good as the MoreBeer ones, but very close and definitely worth the savings.

Why so many 1/2" SS compression fittings? It looks like you are using a bunch on the plate chiller. You're going to want the plate chiller to be setup so you can remove it easily without being hard plumbed to things.

JonW -

Thanks. I was planning on QD's from moreBeer, but will have a look at the ones from Williams Brewing. Thanks for the tip. As for the compression fittings. Yeah - I had like 10 or so planned in the drawing around the plate chiller. I was going to hard plumb alot with SS instead of flex hose, but the drawing isn't to scale. After looking at your thread again - maybe it is best to just put the valve on the chiller like you did and do flex hose with QDs instead of all the hard plumbing.

patthebrewer -

Thanks man. I can't wait to move this build along.

patthebrewer said:

incredible amazing work....wish I had that kind of ability to make something like that

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I agree, I got really excited that my rubbermaid AG system didn't leak. I can do electrical work and plumbing, but I do not have the ability to building something of this quality.

Wheels make a world of a difference and the total locking casters are badass.

Well, I managed to final take the time to plan out and design the control panel. Will be sending it off to get laser cut this week. In the begining, I was leaning towards no brew controller, but have since decided to make a BCS-462 stand. Took some of the ideas from Blackheart brewery for the panel, but will be adding an ipad mount (http://www.chiefmfg.com/Series/FSRI) to the panel as you can see on the bottom portion of the design.