Not a happy customer!!

swackattack said:

As an owner of many retail stores, customers like the op are not valuable. They are looking to have a policy changed because they are special and are constantly looking for a way to eek a buck out. Rarely worth it.

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I got half way through and then could read anymore of the same so decided to through my $0.02 in (sorry if this has been said already).

The customer is always right in the case where if that customer told anyone else the "raw" deal they got at your store would mean that that person would be less likely to shop with you.
It does not apply when if the person told someone what happened and the likely response (as said in this thread a few times) is "man what an ass, that's pretty rude" and does not affect the other persons desire to shop with the store (or could be positive since they want to actually get in on the deal when they are actually valid to)

As the above said some customers are not that bigger loss

jmendez29 said:

You know, after reading this thread, I just went and bought about $150 worth of merchandise at NB.

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I like your style. Shopping now.

In someone elses words "For every dollar you don't spend at Northern Brewer over this trifling nonsense, I'm going to spend three."

Well gosh, this thread didn't go the way the OP expected at all, did it?

Sure is quality entertainment.

Bobby_M said:

I ran a very modest promotion over the black Friday weekend that included free shipping for that limited time for orders over $200 and had someone complain because they placed an order the week before.

Was I supposed to offer retroactive shipping refunds? If so, how far back?

It's also hard to come out with product improvements because so many people moan about buying the un-improved version a week, month or year ago.

Let's be adults and agree that when you buy something, it's under the assumption that you've seen what the market has to offer, you're comfortable with the price, terms, and value and therefore make the purchase. If that's not how you view the model of commerce, then as suggested a few times, I probably don't want the business.

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Hahahaha, the worst part of that is it was a Black Friday deal, can you be anymore predictable when you will be offering a sale/deal than Black Friday. Really if they were that desperate to get a deal they should have waited for the predictable sale!

I think where the OP went wrong was mentioning NB as the source. Tough to beat the #1 On-line HB Supplier, especially on an HB forum. Another game of David and Goliath, only this time Goliath squashed David.


WW

pwkblue said:

it is your business, and you can choose to run it any way you wish. If only one customer called about the free shipping promotion....seems to me offering a credit vs. a future purchase would have been a wise spend to keep a proven customer happy....and since only 1 called, it would not have created a huge issue. A proven customer is way too valuable.

More importantly...it is your business...but if my employer caught me referring to customers the way you did in this post I would be fired. Every single customer, and potential customer is valuable.

Now, personally....I am a great customer, I have been a retailer and small business owner far too long to be a PIA customer. Funny because I was just cruising through your products a few days ago.

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If you ask 99.9% of my previous customers, I doubt you'll find many who are unhappy. I'm a straight up guy who's honest but realistic. I don't pander to people for the sake of sales. Maybe I'm not cutout for "real" business. I respect every one of my customers when they act decently and realize that there are real people on the other end of the line. If you want to treat a small vendor like Walmart, this isn't the place to do it. Granted, NB is pretty big as far as homebrew companies go, but the concepts are the same.

Hey what if NB did honer the card and the OP went and posted that news? Well then... quite a different story, right?

mattd2 said:

I got half way through and then could read anymore of the same so decided to through my $0.02 in (sorry if this has been said already).

The customer is always right in the case where if that customer told anyone else the "raw" deal they got at your store would mean that that person would be less likely to shop with you.
It does not apply when if the person told someone what happened and the likely response (as said in this thread a few times) is "man what an ass, that's pretty rude" and does not affect the other persons desire to shop with the store (or could be positive since they want to actually get in on the deal when they are actually valid to)

As the above said some customers are not that bigger loss

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Um? So who's side are you on again?

Willie3 said:

Hey what if NB did honer the card and the OP went and posted that news? Well then... quite a different story, right?

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The response would be a couple of folks saying "Wow, that was nice, they didn't have to do that" and that would be the end of it.

I would say OP has been sufficiently shamed seeing as how he hasn't posted in 50 replies. Don't think we've convinced him, though. Not much hope for that, I'm afraid.

daksin said:

The response would be a couple of folks saying "Wow, that was nice, they didn't have to do that" and that would be the end of it..

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I also think that many who have read it would think "and that is why I shop at NB." Possibly driven more people to the site tonight.

Who am I kidding...it probably drove people to the site anyway.... see yall later, I need to get me a burner...LOL!

The thing is when I asked people I know and respect today about this situation the common theme is: "you've spent hundreds of dollars with this company in the past year, and are planning on spending much much more in the coming years, why not give you the card and keep you comin back." It is a drop in the bucket for them. And I was advertising their business to all of my family trough a wishlist created. I could have chosen AHS or some other vendor but I chose NB. My buying clearly was not important enough for them. So I vented, and have decided to move on to other companies.
Blichman products never go on sale or at least from what I have seen they don't. That is why I decided not to wait to buy. Sure enough, one week later NB offers them with a gift card. I would have used the gift card to buy much more stuff with them. Seems like a small price to keep my business. This is just me though, clearly others disagree. Clearly, others are huge fans of NB and don't want someone complaining about a frivolous $20 gift card. I must go back and rethink my whole life, all the decisions I ever made cause I am such a horrible person to think a company would want to keep a customer coming back to buy more. My buying power was not considered enough of a loss for them so they said no. And yeah I'm pissed. So be it!! I'll move on to other companies.
This whole thing has taken on a life of its own, jeesh!

I own my own business and use to buckle in to every whinney **** that come in to I lost in total 150,000 in total last year so if if I loose 1 customer over my new policy so be it love NB for standing their ground

Why so much hostility towards the OP? I wouldn't fault anyone for trying to cash in on a promotion after the fact. It's pretty commonplace nowadays that many larger retailers DO make concessions in cases like this. Go ask your SWMBO's if they've ever tried to get today's sale price refunded on yesterday's purchase and get off your high horses.

Of course it is up to the retailer and they can choose to say no. It doesn't say anything about a person's character because they tried. All of you that are crying indecent behavior are living in glass houses from the look of it.
Now, if the customer chooses to let themselves get upset about being turned down, maybe there's a lesson for them to be learned there, but it doesn't excuse any of you from attacking someones character over a few lines of text like a pack of hyenas.
For the record, I agree. I wouldn't have done that, and I probably wouldn't like to be treated that way if I was the retailer, but put your pitchforks and torches away for Pete's sake. I would venture to guess the OP learned a bit of a lesson about customer loyalty and assumptions about this community. Enough already.

I never bought a Blichmann floor burner. I can has $20?

Had NB given the dude $20 for a promo offer he missed by a week, yeah, it would be a different story. It'd be a story about getting $20 for a promo offer he missed by a week.

It could also become a story about people expecting NB to make a one time sale price or promo deal into the forever price and deal. Kiss those sales and deals goodbye then. They wouldn't be worth it.

Hamsterbite said:

Um? So who's side are you on again?

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I saying that the "customer is always right" mentality is used not to satify that one customer but to stop that customer from bitching about your store to other potential customers.
If (as in this case) the customer doesn't have a real complinat, most people he tells his sob story to will just think he is being a bit of a dick for expecting them to give him $20 for nothing. I think NB didn't do anything wrong (as it seems most other people on here think too).
Hopefully before I get quote without this point: I don't think the OP did anything wrong in asking for the coupon either. But starting a thread about it fits into the situatiion above.

Zuljin said:

I never bought a Blichmann floor burner. I can has $20?

Had NB given the dude $20 for a promo offer he missed by a week, yeah, it would be a different story. It'd be a story about getting $20 for a promo offer he missed by a week.

It could also become a story about people expecting NB to make a one time sale price or promo deal into the forever price and deal. Kiss those sales and deals goodbye then. They wouldn't be worth it.

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You all miss the point! The reality is..this FORUM was loaded with comments for the week prior to Thanksgiving about the upcoming sales. I am guessing that MANY of you deferred purchases in the week or two prior to see if it would go on sale... AND at least half of you that waited STILL have not made the purchase. THE WISE retailer would prefer to keep sales flowing...which is WHY so many retailers offer price match and sales price guarantees. Make the sale when you have an interested customer!!

The beauty of that policy...maybe 5% of customers will come back for the credit. Those policies exist because they increase business, and keep customers happy...they ALLOW and foster the ability to offer a special sale or incentive...not the other way around.

Clearly NB has done something right to earn the loyalty of so many in this thread...and perhaps the OP was intending to be a troll....BUT in my opinion many of the posts since are way out of line, and dissapointing. I enjoy these forums...but the attitude in this thread is sending me on a HBT.com vacation.

mattd2 said:

I saying that the "customer is always right" mentality is used not to satify that one customer but to stop that customer from bitching about your store to other potential customers.
If (as in this case) the customer doesn't have a real complinat, most people he tells his sob story to will just think he is being a bit of a dick for expecting them to give him $20 for nothing. I think NB didn't do anything wrong (as it seems most other people on here think too)Hopefully before I get quote without this point: I don't think the OP did anything wrong in asking for the coupon either. But starting a thread about it fits into the situatiion above.

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Gotcha now. And I would agree with that. It just pisses me off to see a full on pig pile for something that's not that big a deal.

I agree that the vendor was in the right, OP didn't meet the terms to get the special, he shouldn't get it. I too run a business and lines have to be drawn and enforced. I have lost a customer or two over similar issues and I'm still busy and successful.

I'm looking to buy a Blichman burner, it's a good product and I want one. I was talking to the owner of my LHBS about getting one with a discount I have coming. Turns out he's not allowed to discount Blichman's price... ever. Blichman doesn't allow it??? Don't know for sure it's true but... check out prices on Blichman gear on the Internet, have you EVER seen any difference? Sure you sometimes see someone offering a gift card with a purchase, but an actual price reduction? I haven't. Sounds kinda like price fixing to me, that kinda pisses me off. Does it piss me off enough to not buy one at the perceived fixed price? No.

My $.02

Hamsterbite said:

Gotcha now. And I would agree with that. It just pisses me off to see a full on pig pile for something that's not that big a deal.

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Damn it you quoted me before the edit!
I agree with you too (that is what the edit was about), I don't think either of them did anything wrong in their dealings with each other. I just think the OP mis-estimated the reaction he would get by posting this topic

ButcherBoy said:

I agree that the vendor was in the right, OP didn't meet the terms to get the special, he shouldn't get it. I too run a business and lines have to be drawn and enforced. I have lost a customer or two over similar issues and I'm still busy and successful.

I'm looking to buy a Blichman burner, it's a good product and I want one. I was talking to the owner of my LHBS about getting one with a discount I have coming. Turns out he's not allowed to discount Blichman's price... ever. Blichman doesn't allow it??? Don't know for sure it's true but... check out prices on Blichman gear on the Internet, have you EVER seen any difference? Sure you sometimes see someone offering a gift card with a purchase, but an actual price reduction? I haven't. Sounds kinda like price fixing to me, that kinda pisses me off. Does it piss me off enough to not buy one at the perceived fixed price? No.

My $.02

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I think that is the case. Like Bose, Dyson, etc...

BigRedHopHead said:

The thing is when I asked people I know and respect...

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People you are close to told you exactly what you wanted to hear or think the same way you do? Get out! No freakin way!

mattd2 said:

Damn it you quoted me before the edit!
I agree with you too (that is what the edit was about), I don't think either of them did anything wrong in their dealings with each other. I just think the OP mis-estimated the reaction he would get by posting this topic

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I can fix that!

I think both NB and OP are both right. I see the point in not giving out a promotional item before or after the promotional time frame. But I have been known to get mad and not shop at a place over what I considered a slight by a business. In the end both businesses and customers have to make a decision based on their needs.

pwkblue said:

I just read 2 pages of posts blasting the OP. What he describes is VERY common. Most retailers will honor and adjust a sales price for retroactive purchases. In fact one online retailer I buy from automatically sends "store credit" adjustments.

Why? Each new customer has a real and measurable cost. In most industries it is actually quite high...$200 - $300. For this reason the most important marketing is done to keep proven/existing customers happy. This is particularly true when the customer is a proven buyer of profitable or high end products.

A $20 credit to keep a customer happy is a wise marketing expense.

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I too am surprised that there has been a bashing of the OP on this. I don't believe that 7 days is too far out to ask them to honor the $20. I know that I would and I have in fact done this before with vendors on this site where I have purchased a big ticket item and a few days later it goes on sale. They have always been accommodating.

As was stated, that $20 would likely lead to much more in additional sales. I know that I have spent many x the amount that was honored with each merchant. It's just good business...

I have to agree with NB on this,,,you bought with no stated or implied price match or retroactive fulfillment of incentives....

Montanaandy said:

I too am surprised that there has been a bashing of the OP on this. I don't believe that 7 days is too far out to ask them to honor the $20.

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It certainly isn't too far out to ASK but I don't think its appropriate to throw a tissy fit over being told no. Who sets the bar for what is "too far out"? If that was left to the customer, Christmas deals would have to last year round and the like. I know.. lets get the government involved and create an oversight committee... better yet, a whole agency dedicated to seeing that businesses are mandated to be fair to the customer. Fair being whatever they whine that they want or are entitled to.

Ask.. if you get it then awesome! If you don't, then oh well. You got exactly what you payed for and knew you were paying for when you got it.

And the whole argument that "I would have bought more from them". That is like making a formal proposal to the company... "Look, if you do this, I promise to do this. Oh but there is no guarantee. Just take my word for it."

A bird in the hand...

Montanaandy said:

]I too am surprised that there has been a bashing of the OP on this.[/B] I don't believe that 7 days is too far out to ask them to honor the $20. ...

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Did you miss this from the OP?

BigRedHopHead said:

When I called there was no expectation to get the card. Thought I would at least ask and see what happened.

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He was told no and then he offered an option and didn't like it because it didn't go his way. Then posted his rant for all of us to view. I have not and will not call names but what did he expect?

sonofgrok said:

And the whole argument that "I would have bought more from them". That is like making a formal proposal to the company... "Look, if you do this, I promise to do this. Oh but there is no guarantee. Just take my word for it."

A bird in the hand...

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Exactly right! I get this all the time when people are trying to get me to lower the price of my services. "Oh, I'll call you back all the time. I have many friends that I can refer to you." I don't fall for it. My best friend who happens to be in the same business as me does fall for it. What happens? He severely reduces his price and or throws in services for free and they never call back and he gets zero referrals from them. I'm willing to work with people, but will not give my services away for free based on what people say they will do in the future. Is my friend busier than me? Does he have more customers? No, so obviously I'm not missing out on anything.

So you bought some stuff through them and you created a wish list. You want a medal or a lollipop? Do you know how many customers they have that regularly spend alot of money on their products? And do you know how many people probably call and email them daily with overreactions to minor problems and people that expect something free or a discount. They help said people and never receive an order from them again. You might be the exception to the rule, but they don't know that. For all they know, you would just place as close to a 20 dollar order as you could with that gift card and that's it because that's what most probably do. I'm not saying you were wrong for trying. But it didn't work out. It's not the store's fault. You may think that a 20 dollar gift card is just a "drop in the bucket to them." But if they start adjusting prices and giving gift cards to everyone who calls and asks no matter what the circumstance, suddenly they're out of business. If they make an exception in this case, then they've set a precedent. Next time you'll expect it because they gave in last time and so on. Then it becomes more than the 20 dollars that one time because heaven forbid you don't get what you feel you're entitled to. They'll always be one justifiably denied gift card away from you dragging their business name through the mud.

Subsailor said:

Did you miss this from the OP?

BigRedHopHead said:

When I called there was no expectation to get the card...

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Hahaha thanks for pointing that out Subsailor. That makes this even more funny.
So Big Red you called with no expectations that they should give you a $20 card but then when they didn't you ranted on the internet about it... sounds like you did have expectations on how you wanted this to go after all

kill(horse)

while(true)
{
beat(horse)
}

I think we're missing something in that loop...

bombcar said:

Send me free stuff and you'll have me as a customer until I find some other place to get free stuff.

A customer is only worth $20 if you make $20 off them. If you only make $19, you've lost money if you spent $20 to get them.

And we all know a customer like this will be back the moment they find something at NB for twelve cents less than local retail.

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Actually depending on the company it is usually more a 10:1 to 12:1 ratio. For every dollar you spend you spend out of pocket you need to earn 10-12 dollars to be profitable. So if you give out 20 dollars you'd be asking that customer spend 200-220 dollars in return for you to be making a decent profit. Cost of doing business.

Judgement call on NB's part. If they gave a 20 dollar gift card do to everyone who bought a burner in the last 7...14....21 days? At what day do you tell the person sorry no dice....and then does that person come on and blast the company for not doing it?

The OP probably figured NB would be on here, see this, and say "Oh dear customer, we didn't realize we were throwing away the potential for thousands of dollars worth of equipment purchases....please take this twenty dollar gift card to show what worthless scumpigs we are". He'll still shop there and probably try this again in the future. Theres nothing wrong with trying but you shoulda just let it go since you weren't expecting anything anyway.

sonofgrok said:

It certainly isn't too far out to ASK but I don't think its appropriate to throw a tissy fit over being told no. Who sets the bar for what is "too far out"? If that was left to the customer, Christmas deals would have to last year round and the like. I know.. lets get the government involved and create an oversight committee... better yet, a whole agency dedicated to seeing that businesses are mandated to be fair to the customer. Fair being whatever they whine that they want or are entitled to.

Ask.. if you get it then awesome! If you don't, then oh well. You got exactly what you payed for and knew you were paying for when you got it.

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I would have to agree that the tone of the OP was a bit off-putting but I was trying to look at the situation objectively, not taking that into account.

In terms of what is deemed "too far out" I personally would put anything in excess of 7 days as being too remote to ask for a refund/compensation.

It really depends upon your business perspective. I have read some posts positing that it would take $200+ in gross sales to make up the $20 if you we're to refund it. Speaking as a small business owner for 30+ years, if that is the case then you need to get out of retail...

This thread is ridiculous. Sure, it never hurts to ask them to honor the sale and nobody can blame you for trying, but to post on here pitching a fit screaming you'll never do business with them again is silly and unfair. It's a $20 gift card....get over it. Sales come and go all the time; especially during the holiday season. It is unrealistic to expect a company to honor every sale, all the time. Be it 7hrs before the sale has posted or 7 days....the sale is effective when it posts and expires when they chose. As a courtesy, some larger chains will honor future sales/incentives, but they generally have a policy which states how far past/present they will honor the add. RHHB

These guys profit like $1-1.50 an ounce on hops sold, they probably make 20 bucks a kit they sell, it's not a 10:1 here IMO. Yes, you have to account for costs, but they make a ton of money on this stuff.

theveganbrewer said:

These guys profit like $1-1.50 an ounce on hops sold, they probably make 20 bucks a kit they sell, it's not a 10:1 here IMO. Yes, you have to account for costs, but they make a ton of money on this stuff.

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I think you are confusing mark up with profit margin. And let's not forget. They are a for profit business that creates a significant number of jobs. It ain't always about the man trying to get over on everyone.

theveganbrewer said:

These guys profit like $1-1.50 an ounce on hops sold, they probably make 20 bucks a kit they sell, it's not a 10:1 here IMO. Yes, you have to account for costs, but they make a ton of money on this stuff.

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Soooo.... That means customers are entitled to free money and products they don't deserve? I can't stand this mentality of people that think companies are making so much money they can just give stuff away because it shouldn't matter, they make a lot of money. You don't know what their operating costs are and neither do I so we can't say definitively what kind of profits they make. And honestly it doesn't matter. They're not in business to give stuff away and break even on their products as a favor.

Alright folks, that's enough. No more piling on or bashing the OP or the vendor. Please remember the "Golden Rule" here, and be polite if you have something of value to add.

Thanks!

Montanaandy said:

I too am surprised that there has been a bashing of the OP on this. I don't believe that 7 days is too far out to ask them to honor the $20.

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Where do you draw the line though? 8 days? 9? 10? 50? At some point a line has to be drawn. If that line is at 7 days, you're going to piss of the customer who bought it 8 days ago. Somehow, to someone, NB is going to look like a dick. no reason to rant about it in a public forum.