Fermcap S conclusion?

Ok, been going through all the threads a bit, and was hoping to summarize the info and make sure i got this straight.

Fermcap S (or similar foam controls)

-can add to the BK. About 6+ drops for 5 gal. batch. When cooling, fermcap will settle in the trub and get discarded.

-can add to starter. To prevent boil-over on the stove in erlenmeyer flask. About 1 or 2 drops

Now, does that mean, that when you cool to pitch yeast, you have to put it in again to keep krausen under control? Another 1 or 2 drops?

-can add to primary. about 6+ drops per 5 gal. batch. when the air-lock/blow-off starts bubbling.

Does that mean, from the starter it will have settled out, and you have to put it in the primary again?

Then, what if a person wants to save the yeast-cake? Possible to or not? since the fermcap is settled out along with the yeast. Is it really possible to keep re-using yeast with the fermcap in it?

Apologies if any of this was in a thread somewhere, i searched and didn't find everything.

1 drop would probably be sufficient for a starter. It would likely carry over from there to krausen control in the starter, but I've never tried this so I am just speculating.

You definitely want to add in both the boil kettle and the fermentor (if you want it for both purposes. It tends to get left behind in the sludge when you transfer.

I don't see why you couldn't keep the yeast cake. Fermcap is just food grade silicon...i.e., it is quite inert. I'm not sure here if you would need to add more of it to the next batch, though. I suspect you would.

For the starter, I wound up using 2 drops in the flask, yeah. I put it in after the DME (though next time I'd put it in before) and it broke up the bubbles and prevented a boil-over. With a stir-plate I never get krausen in the flask, idk if this is normal.

As for yeast washing, I would personally say go for it. There is literally nothing in Fermcap that will hurt you and nothing bad could possibly come from having it in your yeast cake / washed yeast / future beer.

I am curious how much people use for primary fermenting, though. Doing my first corny keg primary today or tomorrow!

I put a couple drops in the starter and use a stirplate as well and never get a krausen. I use it in the boil kettle but not the primary. I can tell you from the blowoff tube on my beer I did Sunday that it does not carry over.

lmnop said:

With a stir-plate I never get krausen in the flask, idk if this is normal.

I am curious how much people use for primary fermenting, though. Doing my first corny keg primary today or tomorrow!

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Thanks for the reply.
I would suspect if you put the fermcap in the boil for the starter, when using a stirplate it would get suspended again, eliminating the need for a drop to prevent krausen. That would confirm you not getting krausen with your stir-plate. Depending on the yeast you can get a good amount of it (like my belgian-wit volcano last week).

In the primary, from what i gathered, wait till bubbling starts, then add so fermcap stays suspended. If you do it before that it will stay at the bottom and won't work.

dutch-brew said:

Thanks for the reply.
I would suspect if you put the fermcap in the boil for the starter, when using a stirplate it would get suspended again, eliminating the need for a drop to prevent krausen. That would confirm you not getting krausen with your stir-plate. Depending on the yeast you can get a good amount of it (like my belgian-wit volcano last week).

In the primary, from what i gathered, wait till bubbling starts, then add so fermcap stays suspended. If you do it before that it will stay at the bottom and won't work.

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I only use fermcap in my primary. I drop a few drops in as I pitch my yeast, stick it in the fermentor and forget about it. I'm sure waiting for activity would make it more effective, but doing it right at the start has given me enough control to serve my needs. I tend to get a nice inch of krausen and not more.

dutch-brew said:

Thanks for the reply.
I would suspect if you put the fermcap in the boil for the starter, when using a stirplate it would get suspended again, eliminating the need for a drop to prevent krausen. That would confirm you not getting krausen with your stir-plate. Depending on the yeast you can get a good amount of it (like my belgian-wit volcano last week).

Click to expand...

I never had krausen in my starters before I got Fermcap, either, but those were American ale yeasts. I thought the stirring action of the plate (which is fairly vigorous) was keeping it from forming. Either way, I have a wit yeast that I Fermcap'd as I described before on the stir plate right now, and it hasn't made a peep of foam.

MalFet said:

I only use fermcap in my primary. I drop a few drops in as I pitch my yeast, stick it in the fermentor and forget about it. I'm sure waiting for activity would make it more effective, but doing it right at the start has given me enough control to serve my needs. I tend to get a nice inch of krausen and not more.

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Just to clarify: would you say "a few drops" is more like 2 or more like 4 or more like 6?

lmnop said:

Just to clarify: would you say "a few drops" is more like 2 or more like 4 or more like 6?

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5 or 6, but that stuff is so goopy that it's hard to say for sure.

MalFet said:

5 or 6, but that stuff is so goopy that it's hard to say for sure.

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Yeah, I was a bit surprised at how solidly it comes out. Thanks!

I use fermcap to boil 7 gallons in an 8 gallon pot. Works like a charm. It seems to have some carryover to fermentation. I have never had a blow-off. I do not add fermcap to the fermenter.

Fermcap will not prevent erlenmeyer flask "volcano boil over" if you drop the stirbar into the flask just before bioling temperature is reached. Don't ask me how I know this......

I use about 10-12 drops of Baby Gas Drops in the BK to prevent boil-over.

I've used 1-2 drops in flask when making starters. Never got krausen in the starter with it added.

I've never added to primary.

As far as I can recall, I've never had a lack of krausen. I'd guess it doesn't carry over from BK and Starter.

If I don't add it to the fermenter I get a krausen. In fact, today I had to throw a blowoff tube onto a fermenting beer because I forgot to add fermcap once fermentation started.

bovineblitz said:

If I don't add it to the fermenter I get a krausen. In fact, today I had to throw a blowoff tube onto a fermenting beer because I forgot to add fermcap once fermentation started.

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That's why I don't bother waiting for krausen.

MalFet said:

I only use fermcap in my primary. I drop a few drops in as I pitch my yeast, stick it in the fermentor and forget about it. I'm sure waiting for activity would make it more effective, but doing it right at the start has given me enough control to serve my needs. I tend to get a nice inch of krausen and not more.

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Followed this advice with a Belgian Wit (wpl400) yesterday, put over 5gal into a corny keg with 5 generous drops of Fermcap and a blow-off tube. Today the jug of starsan is full of starsan bubbles, the ferment drove the temp up 3 degrees already, but there is no trace of krausen in the blow-off tube.

MalFet said:

That's why I don't bother waiting for krausen.

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I've had mixed results with that, one time it foamed up like crazy even though I added a lot of fermcap. Apparently you're supposed to wait until fermentation has started because it keeps the wort churning... if there's no motion it's possible for the fermcap to just drop to the bottom.

bovineblitz said:

I've had mixed results with that, one time it foamed up like crazy even though I added a lot of fermcap. Apparently you're supposed to wait until fermentation has started because it keeps the wort churning... if there's no motion it's possible for the fermcap to just drop to the bottom.

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Huh...interesting. I've never had a problem, but it is interesting to know others have.

bovineblitz said:

I've had mixed results with that, one time it foamed up like crazy even though I added a lot of fermcap. Apparently you're supposed to wait until fermentation has started because it keeps the wort churning... if there's no motion it's possible for the fermcap to just drop to the bottom.

Click to expand...

Did you mix/shake/stir the fermcap? I always shake the pi$$ outta the bottle to mix it up.

I stopped using it ever since I started doing my 5-6 gal batches in a 10g fermentor. I got good at avoiding boil overs in the kettle. I might give it a shot in primary to see if I can retain more foam forming proteins.

Seems to carry over from starter boil to starter ferment, but not from batch boil to batch ferment. I guess a lot comes out in the hot break and hops (I whirlpool).

StMarcos said:

Seems to carry over from starter boil to starter ferment, but not from batch boil to batch ferment. I guess a lot comes out in the hot break and hops (I whirlpool).

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Do you use a stir-plate? If that would be the case then the reason it seems to carry over is because the stirplate gets it suspended again after it settles out in the cooling process, which is what i would expect.

Homercidal said:

I use about 10-12 drops of Baby Gas Drops in the BK to prevent boil-over.

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What are these Baby Gas Drops you mentioned? Is it similar to the fermcap/ defoamers? Is it cheaper/more easily available? More info please

I think he's referring to Mylicon

dutch-brew said:

Ok, been going through all the threads a bit, and was hoping to summarize the info and make sure i got this straight.

Fermcap S (or similar foam controls)
.

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Have you read the safety **** on the label? I'm so old it should make me no difference, but, I don't want that crap in my beer.......