Rule of thumb for when to rack to a secondary?

to those who do rack to a secondary,


Is there a general rule to guide you? All my experience (so far) has come from the prepackaged 'beer in box' which explicitly tells you time and the FG to aim for. However, I tried out the 'centennial blonde' recipe and although the author give you an OG, there isnt a FG value to shoot for - at least that I've come across skimming across that monster thread...

So if you're in a situation like this what do you do? I've been told that watching the bubbling end as an indicator is always wrong.

PPRK said:

to those who do rack to a secondary,

Is there a general rule to guide you? All my experience (so far) has come from the prepackaged 'beer in box' which explicitly tells you time and the FG to aim for. However, I tried out the 'centennial blonde' recipe and although the author give you an OG, there isnt a FG value to shoot for - at least that I've come across skimming across that monster thread...

So if you're in a situation like this what do you do? I've been told that watching the bubbling end as an indicator is always wrong.

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Well if you absolutely insist on using a secondary vessel (most here will argue that it is unnecessary). The best way to know for sure what your FG is, is to take multiple gravity readings over consecutive days, if you get 3 readings that have not changed you have likely reached your FG.

FG for Centennial is: Final Gravity: 1.008

I did the AG Centennial Blonde recipe 3 weeks ago, although I tweaked it up to pale ale range. OG was 1.055, FG 1.012. I couldn't stand the wait and did try one this past weekend after only one week in the bottle. Still, VERY nice.
Now, my story and input on the 'secondary debate'. When I started about 20 months ago, I used a secondary on everything. Now, I'm more selective. If I need that particular yeast cake after 2 weeks, then I secondary. If I don't, I let it go for 3 in primary. If I'm adding fruit I secondary. Dryhopping, lately I've been doing in primary. I may get a few flames for saying this, but I believe my beers that have been in secondaries are more clear than those in primary-only. And I coldcrash and use gelatin on everything. I think it's because I'm part Scottish and try to get every last drop of beery goodness from my bottling bucket, so invariably I suck up some trub in the primary. There's less sediment in the secondary. "That's my story and I'm sticking with it. Your results may vary".

Best rule of thumb: don't.

If you're going to dry hop, add wood chips, etc...... okay... otherwise no point.

As for when, it's all about gravity. When you've hit your FG, that's when it's time. Apart from that, there is no perfect formula mon frere... even when using a box... even if using the same recipe you've used before. Just wait until your FG is consistent and rack away!

I don't even dry hop in secondary. Oaking or fruit yes.

If you want to use it, after the beer is done fermenting. The rule of thumb on FG is 25% of the OG or when the gravity stops dropping. The secondary is only for extra additions or allowing for sedimintation while not on sitting on the yeast.

I've used it. I've skipped it. I don't know that my beers go any faster or taste better either way.

Channel66 said:

Well if you absolutely insist on using a secondary vessel (most here will argue that it is unnecessary). The best way to know for sure what your FG is, is to take multiple gravity readings over consecutive days, if you get 3 readings that have not changed you have likely reached your FG.

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This. Although I would claim you can take your readings 3 days apart.

Worth noting that a projected target final gravity is just that, a projected target. Reaching it does *not* mean that it is your actual final gravity or that it is safe to secondary.

Responses make sense. Thanks

However, what would the fall out if one would transfer to the secondary and the fermentation is near completing and the bubbling has slowed to (almost nothing) and the SP is close to the FG (but not quite there)

Could all these not complete in the secondary ?

PPRK said:

Responses make sense. Thanks

However, what would the fall out if one would transfer to the secondary and the fermentation is near completing and the bubbling has slowed to (almost nothing) and the SP is close to the FG (but not quite there)

Could all these not complete in the secondary ?

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yeahhh.... I think you are leaving the area of rational discussion and into the realm of biased and heated opinions.

I've heard many people do this and they had a rationale I never understood and they do this and make perfectly decent beers. But *I* would feel that when you transfer you are removing the beer from the yeast. And if it's not done fermenting then it wants the yeast that is left behind to finish fermenting. There's probably many rational responses to this, there's enough yeast in suspension, there something else about another thing, etc. But seeing as I'm in the don't secondary school, it seems secondarying early is just even wronger. But my main reason is because when I was a newbie my LHBS said it's important to never transfer or bottle until final gravity has stabilized, and I thought my LHBS was so super awesome cool that I'm repeating everything they say as fanboy gospel.

So in all honesty, people *do* transfer before gravity has stabilized. Their beers don't seem awful. But it sure as heck *seems* wrong to me and I really *want* to dis-recommend it but I can't claim I've got the empirical evidence to back me up. But the rationale "the beer needs its yeast to finish fermenting and it hasn't" sure rings heavy for me.

It's probably a matter of degree. Don't do it if fermentation is only 60 percent complete but it's okay if fermentation is 80 percent complete (or whatever). But I just feel why risk doing it early when you can play it safe and do it late and, indeed, you don't need to do it all?

thats quite the post woozy!

I would have to add I think a lot of people (including myself) are used to only keeping the beer in the primary until its completed fermentation typically 7-10 days and then remove it from the trub into another container to settle the remaining sediment so it doesn't sit on the trub. However in reality the beer can sit on this trub for more then 4 weeks without adding any negative flavors to the beer.

I do this with with most of my brews (mainly cause i'm a noob and don't know the ill or non-ill effects behind these situations) and can hardly tell you if I would notice the difference if you missed your temp targets and now the flavors off......I do know either way using primary or not most my brews need a min of 2 weeks before I put into my kegs cause I don't want the trub on the bottom of the keg where the beer out line is.

Anyways perhaps brew-masters could chime in on this and inform us what the professionals do!

Great post woozy!

All I can add is that having a beer sit on the yeast cake for even a few weeks will do absolutely no harm.

My last beer a German Alt sat on the yeast for 3 months. Life has a way of taking all your time sometimes. Anyway when I raked to bottling bucket it was the clearest beer I made and tasted great 3 weeks in the bottle its even better. I sure don't plan on letting one go that long on the yeast again but glad to know I'll still get great beer if it life throws me another curve ball.

when I secondary (to clear a beer out off the cake, dry-hop, oak, spices, etc.) it's typically at 14 days OR when I've gotten the same gravity reading across three days. Typically, it's the 14 day window because well, I'm lazy and don't bother taking multiple gravity readings anymore - might be time for a refractometer. fyi typically at 14 days I'm bottled/kegged unless it's something crazy.

YMMV

I rack to secondary (if the beer is light enough for anyone to tell it's cloudy) at 14 days. I normally fermemt at 70 degrees.

Depending on how high the gravity is, might leave it for 1-2 months in secondary.

But then again I've only got 15 or so batches under my belt so no one really cares what I think

I do a secondary only:

1: If I'm actually doing a secondary fermentation. I sometimes play around with starting with one yeast and finishing with brett or lacto.

2: If I'm racking onto something like oak chips or fruit.

3: If I'm splitting a batch to experiment with additions.

4: If I'm lagering for an extended period of time after the diacetyl rest.

I had to be convinced that the old wisdom was wrong. I started racking everything to secondary. Now, it's one more step, one more possibility of oxidation or infection, and slightly less beer into the bottling bucket.

Yeah,it must be remembered that you loose a little beer everytime you rack it.

I secondary everything.. I disagree that you lose beer. In fact I believe I get MORE beer to the keg with less trub. Could I be wrong?.. Absolutely but when I rack I stick the racking cane right down in the trub I get every drop of beer I can and I pick up some trub along with it. I stick the secondary directly into cold crash and let it go a couple days...Anything I pick up falls to the bottom of the secondary vessel and again I pu the racking cane all the way to the bottom and tilt the vessel a bit and rack to the keg.... THIS TIME however the trub is just a dusting on the bottom and the racking cane tip keeps me from picking any of that up..... On the other hand if I went directly from primary to keg, I either keep the cane above the trub to avoid picking any up so therefore I leave beer.. Or I stick it in the trub to get all of the beer and consequently some trub...

I have secondaried and I have not... I see no difference in the beers except my primaries are bigger carboys and I cannot fit any more than one in my fridge to cold crash.. thats why I secondary. I basically do it to fit the carboy into cold crash.

BTW 99% of the time secondary is a misnomer.. it is a clearing or " bright" tank....rack to secondary when your beer if finished fermenting to allow it to clear. There is no time frame, only gravity.

I've learned that Gravity readings are the only true guidelines. My second batch of my Belgian Dubbel, still came out ok, getting better with age as with any Abbey, but I should've kept in the primary for another 2-3 days. Now I'm only using secondary for Aging or Oaking. Patience sucks, but it's a necessary evil. Now that I have better control of my temps in my no A/C house, it's all gooood, just let 'er ride more time in the primary is better than freakin' out about letting it sit on trub for an extra few days or a week.

this is good to know, i think id like to keep most of my beers ion the primary for 10-14 days (instead of 7). what would you consider to be high OG levels and should use a secondary and/or cold crashing?

I leave my beers in primary for 3-4 weeks. The beer is nice and clear by then and the yeast cake compacked good so it makes it easier to rack to bottling bucket without stirring up the trub.

I used to rack to secondary on every brew. Then tried no secondary. No secondary is what I do now unless dry hopping or oak. Your experience may vary, but 3 weeks in primary then keg or bottle and I've not noticed ill effects.

butterpants said:

But then again I've only got 15 or so batches under my belt so no one really cares what I think

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WE care