Exploring "no chill" brewing

So then I should just stick with traditional crappy cooling method for now? I'm not worried about the non-food-graded HDPE, but the sealing mechanism is a valid issue. It's non-vented, so there is only one in and out, but the new drain. I just wonder how much of an issue oxidization is, especially compared to my old method of in-sink cooling with the loose fitting lid on. Oh well, thank you for your help, and again, great thread!

Since I cant find a cliff notes version of this thread...couple questions that Im sure have already been answered:

What temperature wort do you put into the fermenter? Glass? Plastic?

How long can you wait from flame out until you pitch your yeast?

Do you let the wort cool in the kettle or in the fermentor?

thanks and sorry for repeat questions...this thread has 440+ replies

BobcatBrew said:

Since I cant find a cliff notes version of this thread...couple questions that Im sure have already been answered:

What temperature wort do you put into the fermenter? Glass? Plastic?

How long can you wait from flame out until you pitch your yeast?

Do you let the wort cool in the kettle or in the fermentor?

thanks and sorry for repeat questions...this thread has 440+ replies

Click to expand...

200+ degrees and ONLY in an HDPE contianer... ONLY
Pitch when the wort is cool... 24hours and up
I let mine cool in the fermentor, the heat helps sanitize it

reefwreak said:

I was also in love with this method because it basically made a starter for me, but talking to my LHBS today, they said I wouldn't need a starter for this dry Windsor 11 gram yeast. I dunno, we'll see how it turns out.

Click to expand...

This is one of the reason I love no-chill- but you don't need to make a starter if you're using dry yeast.

The Pol said:

200+ degrees and ONLY in an HDPE contianer... ONLY
Pitch when the wort is cool... 24hours and up
I let mine cool in the fermentor, the heat helps sanitize it

Click to expand...

so no glass?
is a better bottle and my true blue bucket HDPE containers?

BobcatBrew said:

so no glass?
is a better bottle and my true blue bucket HDPE containers?

Click to expand...

No glass! NO BETTER BOTTLES, your better bottle is PET, it will melt.

well then; an example of a HDPE container would be...?

Here ya go.

Winpak® Tight Head Pail - US Plastic Corporation

You can also use an Ale Pail or Cornie keg. You can even use your brewpot if you pitch the next day.

I use an Ale Pail. I whirlpool then transfer the hot wort to my fermenter. I put on the airlock with a cotton ball inside. Others have soaked the cottonball with a sterilizer. I don't think it matters.

When I'm ready to pitch, I open it up and oxygenate the wort. Then I recap and add water to my airlock. Don't add water to the airlock until you are ready to pitch, otherwise it will be sucked into the fermenter due to the vacuum created as the wort cools.

Winpaks are great. However, I think they must be much easier to come by in Australia.

smiths9312 said:

You can also use an Ale Pail or Cornie keg. You can even use your brewpot if you pitch the next day.

I use an Ale Pail. I whirlpool then transfer the hot wort to my fermenter. I put on the airlock with a cotton ball inside. Others have soaked the cottonball with a sterilizer. I don't think it matters.

When I'm ready to pitch, I open it up and oxygenate the wort. Then I recap and add water to my airlock. Don't add water to the airlock until you are ready to pitch, otherwise it will be sucked into the fermenter due to the vacuum created as the wort cools.

Winpaks are great. However, I think they must be much easier to come by in Australia.

Click to expand...

Why is that?

BobcatBrew said:

Since I cant find a cliff notes version of this thread...couple questions that Im sure have already been answered:

What temperature wort do you put into the fermenter? Glass? Plastic?

How long can you wait from flame out until you pitch your yeast?

Do you let the wort cool in the kettle or in the fermentor?

thanks and sorry for repeat questions...this thread has 440+ replies

Click to expand...

There are many possible methods...

I let my wort cool in the kettle until it's at pitching temp, so I just use my regular Better Bottles. If I'm brewing a lager, I put the ~65F fermenter in the kegerator to get down to 50F, then I pitch.

I've waited up to 3 days before pitching. Since my kettle isn't truly sealed like Pol's Winpacks, I wouldn't want to wait much longer.

I've brewed 25+ batches like this, and haven't had any issues.

smiths9312 said:

Winpaks are great. However, I think they must be much easier to come by in Australia.

Click to expand...

Yes and no.

Winpaks are not to be found, but the cheaper version Jerricans are sold all over, including Bunnings, their equivalent to Home Depot.

chucke said:

Yes and no.

Winpaks are not to be found, but the cheaper version Jerricans are sold all over, including Bunnings, their equivalent to Home Depot.

Click to expand...

Why is it so hard to find Winpaks? USPlasitcs has them, right?

The question was about winpak availability in Australia.

Sorry, but this thread is kinda weird to me. I didn't even know what a wort chiller was until I discovered HBT. I have always cooled my wort in an ale pale overnight. My next investment was going to be a wort chiller, now I think I'll just get another 5 gal HDPE #2 bucket:rockin:

Has anyone been doing this in Polypropylene buckets?

DerBraumeister said:

Has anyone been doing this in Polypropylene buckets?

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What temps are those rated for? Are they food grade at 200+ degrees?

Basically, you are ok to use anything that can handle 200+ degrees and maintain food grade, not leeching chemicals.

Glass
PET

Those are out. PP? I dunno, dont know of anyone that has used them.

DerBraumeister said:

Has anyone been doing this in Polypropylene buckets?

Click to expand...

???
HDPE cubes are known to work for this application.

You should be able to find cubes in Central Europe.
These are made by a German firm.


Perhaps you can find via the internet a company reasonably close to you that sells HDPE jerricans, or jerry cans.
These are frequently encountered at stores that sell camping equipment.
Being made of HDPE (high density polyethylene) is key.

chucke said:

The question was about winpak availability in Australia.

Click to expand...

Really? I thought he made a statement that Winpaks must be mush easier to find in Australia... which is false. Didnt see it as a question about what is available in Australia.

smiths9312 said:

Winpaks are great. However, I think they must be much easier to come by in Australia.

Click to expand...

Winpaks are in fact easy to find here in the states, probably not in Australia... though you live in Raliegh, so you are in luck!

Statement- question- what's the effing difference.

He *said* "I think they must be much easier to come by in Australia."

I told him cubes are readily available, but Winpaks are not.

There was a question about whether or not this chart existed... it does. Slightly updated no chill hop adjustment chart.

Changes**

FWH additions have been adjusted up from 20 min IBU credit to 30 min IBU credit.

Cube hop has been changed to Transfer hop (hops introduced at flame out, NOT transferred to the cube).

DISCALIMER!!!
This chart is my own personal chart... this is by no means THE way to move NC wort hop additions. THIS IS WHAT I DO and WHAT I DO ONLY! This chart is tailored to my process and my min. boil time of 90 minutes!! If you already do something that works for you, KEEP DOING IT! This is merely a guidleline, and EXAMPLE of what ONE brewer does in his own brewery.

Thanks for the update Pol... I will be utilizing this on my next batch.

I have updated the OP with:
-my results thus far
-links to the new hopping schedule chart
-the explanation of no-chill brewing from the Aussie site
-links to US plastics for winpacks and the stackable jerricans I use.

Hopefully this will help stem some of the more frequently asked questions, as well as make a good easy link to find containers and hopping chart.

If there are any more suggestions for good links, just let me know and I will see if I can add them.

deathweed said:

I have updated the OP with:
-my results thus far
-links to the new hopping schedule chart
-the explanation of no-chill brewing from the Aussie site
-links to US plastics for winpacks and the stackable jerricans I use.

Hopefully this will help stem some of the more frequently asked questions, as well as make a good easy link to find containers and hopping chart.

If there are any more suggestions for good links, just let me know and I will see if I can add them.

Click to expand...

Thanks for doing that

The Pol said:

There was a question about whether or not this chart existed... it does. Slightly updated no chill hop adjustment chart.

Click to expand...

OK, more confusion here. Sorry for the repete questions buttt...
If I am doing a PM kit, do I need to adjust anything? Should I do just the 60 minute boil of longer? I also only have a 20 quart pot (at this time) so I cannot do a full boil but close. My last brew ended up at 3 1/2 gallons in the bucket.

ibbones said:

OK, more confusion here. Sorry for the repete questions buttt...
If I am doing a PM kit, do I need to adjust anything? Should I do just the 60 minute boil of longer? I also only have a 20 quart pot (at this time) so I cannot do a full boil but close. My last brew ended up at 3 1/2 gallons in the bucket.

Click to expand...

To no-chill- just adjust your hop schedule according to the chart above.

BTW, you can do 5 gallon batches in your pot. Figure your recipe for 5 gallons, PM and boil as much as you can, then add the difference in the primary with pre-boiled water.

The Pol said:

Cube hop has been changed to Transfer hop (hops introduced at flame out, NOT transferred to the cube).

Click to expand...

How long you usually whirlpool for?

Cube hopping is easy enough, any particular reason you changed it? Different flavor/bitterness?

All my "malty" to "balanced" no-chill beers have been great. All my "hoppy" ones have been a little too bitter (a "sharp" bitterness). It seems to age out, but it seems to take a while - this is even after adjustment according to version 1 of your chart. All been simple recipes, 60 min, cube hope, dry hop.

bakins said:

How long you usually whirlpool for?

Cube hopping is easy enough, any particular reason you changed it? Different flavor/bitterness?

All my "malty" to "balanced" no-chill beers have been great. All my "hoppy" ones have been a little too bitter (a "sharp" bitterness). It seems to age out, but it seems to take a while - this is even after adjustment according to version 1 of your chart. All been simple recipes, 60 min, cube hope, dry hop.

Click to expand...

I let it sit for 10 mins before I transfer to the cube. I am keeping the hops out of fermentor to better the hop flavor if my final (if I have one) addition.

I have adjusted all of my FWHing so that ProMash credits it for 30 mins of IBUs instead of 20 now. This way my FWH amounts are reduced and I have brought down my bitterness in my FWHed beers a little. ProMash tells me what my IBU perception should be, not what it acutally is...

The Pol said:

I let it sit for 10 mins before I transfer to the cube. I am keeping the hops out of fermentor to better the hop flavor if my final (if I have one) addition.

Click to expand...

Is this just based on your experience? I know you don't rack from your "cube." I do, so should I be concerned (ie, I rack out of my cube into a bucket or better bottle)?

FIW, I think most of my taste issues with bitter beers are a) I tend towards maltier beers in taste b) still "overhopping" somehow. I only have maltier beers on my brew schedule with one exception for the next few months.

bakins said:

Is this just based on your experience? I know you don't rack from your "cube." I do, so should I be concerned (ie, I rack out of my cube into a bucket or better bottle)?

FIW, I think most of my taste issues with bitter beers are a) I tend towards maltier beers in taste b) still "overhopping" somehow. I only have maltier beers on my brew schedule with one exception for the next few months.

Click to expand...

This is based on my experience.

How are you making the FWH adjustment? You arent moving say 1 ounce from 10 minutes to FWH are you? That would probably result in much more IBU perception.

The Pol said:

How are you making the FWH adjustment? You arent moving say 1 ounce from 10 minutes to FWH are you? That would probably result in much more IBU perception.

Click to expand...

No, I've been calculating FWH as 20 minutes. I see you've used 30 minutes, so that is a significant difference.

So, just so I understand, I should:
-move my 10 minute addition, for example, to FWH
-but I should calculate the IBU's like it was a 30 minute addition

So, instead of a 1 ounce of, say 5.5% cascades:
rough calculation (tinseth) says that 1 ounce of 5.5 for 10 minutes in 1.050 wort is 6.3 IBU at 5.5 gallons.
So, using 30 minute calculation for IBU, I should FWH, but should use about .5 ounces (actual amount is slightly less, like .48) to get approximately the same number of IBU.

Is that what I should do? It makes sense, but, then again, that doens't mean I'm right.

bakins said:

No, I've been calculating FWH as 20 minutes. I see you've used 30 minutes, so that is a significant difference.

So, just so I understand, I should:
-move my 10 minute addition, for example, to FWH
-but I should calculate the IBU's like it was a 30 minute addition

So, instead of a 1 ounce of, say 5.5% cascades:
rough calculation (tinseth) says that 1 ounce of 5.5 for 10 minutes in 1.050 wort is 6.3 IBU at 5.5 gallons.
So, using 30 minute calculation for IBU, I should FWH, but should use about .5 ounces (actual amount is slightly less, like .48) to get approximately the same number of IBU.

Is that what I should do? It makes sense, but, then again, that doens't mean I'm right.

Click to expand...

Yeah, if your original recipe is calling for a 1 ounce addition at 10 minutes... the chart (and I) move that 10 minute addition to FWH, BUT... you have to be mindful of the increased utilization at FWH, I credit 30 minutes for FWH now... so you are right, you would not have 1 ounce at FWH, youd have about .5oz

The Pol said:

BUT... you have to be mindful of the increased utilization at FWH, I credit 30 minutes for FWH now... so you are right, you would not have 1 ounce at FWH, youd have about .5oz

Click to expand...

Okay, makes sense. I was just dumping the whole 1 ounce or whatever in. Funny, how methodical I actually am about everything else but let that slip. So some of my "mild" 35IBU beers are actually 50 IBU bitter-bombs Most of my "malty" beers, I've just used a 60 and a cube hop addition (calculated as 80 and 20), and they've been fine (a couple have been great!). I guess I was combing several "unkown" (to me) methods at the same time - FWH and no-chill.

Pol, thanks for all your research. I'm sure it has been quite painful If you're ever in the Atlanta area, come by for beer(s). I'll try to talk you into BIAB, as well

bakins said:

Okay, makes sense. I was just dumping the whole 1 ounce or whatever in. Funny, how methodical I actually am about everything else but let that slip. So some of my "mild" 35IBU beers are actually 50 IBU bitter-bombs Most of my "malty" beers, I've just used a 60 and a cube hop addition (calculated as 80 and 20), and they've been fine (a couple have been great!). I guess I was combing several "unkown" (to me) methods at the same time - FWH and no-chill.

Pol, thanks for all your research. I'm sure it has been quite painful If you're ever in the Atlanta area, come by for beer(s). I'll try to talk you into BIAB, as well

Click to expand...

If I ever get back on the Delta side of the flying and have time in that hub, I will let you know... uncommon, but Id be down for free beer!

Yah, the chart has worked well for me on malty (no late additin hops to move to FWH) and worked well with the FWH beers, but the adjustment has to be made, that 30 min IBU credit makes a lot of difference.

Hey Pol,

I just ordered my Wynpak and I am going to do a no-chill SMaSH this weekend. Big thanks for all of your research and effort in this topic. If this works I will be stoked; I HATE my immersion chiller when the ground water is 83F.

"The big Mc"

McCuckerson said:

Hey Pol,

I just ordered my Wynpak and I am going to do a no-chill SMaSH this weekend. Big thanks for all of your research and effort in this topic. If this works I will be stoked; I HATE my immersion chiller when the ground water is 83F.

"The big Mc"

Click to expand...

Thanks, good luck with your brew. Everyone that has taken the no chill plunge has helped to further its success, the information compliled here on HBT in the past 9 months has been incredible.

I've enjoyed reading this thread and as soon as I get another bucket freed up, I will try it completely. Won't chill the wort at all this time.

I will be doing my first AG very shortly and have decided to go the route of No Chill to save on the cost of an IC.

I have been reading through the many pages of this thread. One thing that I am a little foggy on still is the length of boil. Am I to understand that I should push my boil to a 90min boil for your typical beer. And a 100min boil for anything heavy in Pilsner?

Grant

GrantNH said:

I will be doing my first AG very shortly and have decided to go the route of No Chill to save on the cost of an IC.

I have been reading through the many pages of this thread. One thing that I am a little foggy on still is the length of boil. Am I to understand that I should push my boil to a 90min boil for your typical beer. And a 100min boil for anything heavy in Pilsner?

Grant

Click to expand...

Without a pilsner as a base, you can still do a 60 min boil. This process has been evolving and 60 min is fine. If you are basing your beer with pilsner, 90 is recommended anyway, Id do 100 minutes. There is a guy here that has done plenty of pils based brews and had no DMS issue.

I just brewed on Sunday and didn't chill my beer. I probably did everything wrong, but it's all documented and I'm having fun and that's what matters to me.

I left the two kettles on the stove (I'm in an apt.) until the temp was around 180, then I poured both kettles into my six gallon bucket. I didn't have any means to slowly drain the wort, so I got plenty of oxygen in my hot wort.

I hooked up a blow off tube and as the temp dropped, I watched the sanitizer from the blow off bucket get sucked slowly up the tube and the bucket lid was showing serious signs of contraction from the cooling wort. When I woke up the next morning, the bucket was no longer contracted so I suspect my sanitizer was sucked into my bucket.


When the temp was at 78-80, I poured it onto a fresh Nottingham yeast cake. Then I put the bucket into a rubber tote with the blow off tube, water and some ice. The temp dropped down to mid 50's so I guess I used too much ice.

It's now sitting at 64 and bubbling heavily.

I had a lot of fun doing this and it's probably the first time in 40 plus brewing sessions that I truely was able to RDWHAHB.

What is the difference between the two containers listed in the OP? I realize one comes in only a 5 gallon (and smaller) size, is that the only main difference? They are half the cost, and I would love to purchase one if they work for this method.