lager pitching rates

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
bierhunter

bierhunter

Active Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
35
Reaction score
2
Location
Canada
Hi all,

I am planning my first lager after many all-grain ales and I have a few questions. On the Wyeast website it recommends a 12 cells per millilitre pitching rate, which is approximately 2 smack packs for a 5 gallon batch, but if you go to mr malty's pitching rate calculator it says to pitch much more. I would think the yeast manufacturer would know what's best for their product, but if anyone has experience that their beer is better with those massive pitch rates I would like to hear. I have 2 smack packs and if I can get away without making a starter that would be ok, but if it makes the beer better I have no problem doing it. I plan to pitch at fermentation temps.
 
I usually go in between the two, Mr. Malty seems a bit high to me too. It also depends on the OG, I would probably still make a medium sized starter to pump up the smack packs.
 
The manufacturers always seem to be lower in their estimates. I wonder whether it's because they test based on fresh-off-the-assembly-line yeast, when even a month old is notably less potent.

I honestly think most peole here trust Mr Malty over Wyeast.
 
12 cells per ml isn't much :).

I guess it depends on who you believe. A vendor trying to make their product look good, or George Fix, Ph.D from Harvard, mathematician, and author of books on brewing such as Principles of Brewing Science and An Analysis of Brewing Techniques. This is where Mr. Malty's numbers come from.
 
sorry that's 12 million cells per milliltre. George Fix sounds like he knows what he's talking about. If there's no danger pitching that much yeast then I guess I'll go for it. I've heard of overpitching but I don't think that's until even much higher rates.
Thanks all for the quick replies
 
I recently did a little digging on this and PM'd jamilz about it.

Basically, the yeast mfrs. have been saying for years that their product is "pitchable in 5 gal beer". They can't really go back now and say that they were either mistaken or lying all this time...so their numbers have to corroborate their original claim at least to some degree.

The Mr Malty pitch rate calculator is backed up by science and confirmed by lab analysis. Trust the Mr Malty calculator imo.
 
Doesn't Jamil's calculator assume a log reduction in viable cell count based on date of production? Where do these numbers come from and how can they be accurately calculated since they would have to make assumptions on transport and storage conditions?
 
menschmaschine said:
Doesn't Jamil's calculator assume a log reduction in viable cell count based on date of production? Where do these numbers come from and how can they be accurately calculated since they would have to make assumptions on transport and storage conditions?
Click to expand...
Good point. I've always thought that the viability thing was the weakest link because it's just an estimation based on many assumptions. Then we multiply that starting count so a bad starting count just throws the whole calculation out of whack. At some point, the brewer has to bring something to the table. I make adjustments to the viability because most of my yeast is delivered via mail and even with the ice packs it's warm by the time I get it.
 
I know I know I know that you are supposed to pitch at these enormous rates. Even with that knowledge, I ended up pitching one (yes, 1) smack pack of Wyeast 2278 (Czech Pils). The OG was around 1.045 and it ended up at 1.009, and definitely is one of the best beers I've made.

I probably will try to plan to make a starter next time, but the old "RDWHAH" thinking didn't fail me this time.

I also learned decocted pilsner=DELICIOUS. Thanks Kaiser!

EDIT: I should mention that the smack pack was brand new, LHBS had just received it and I had bought it the same day.
 
What I am doing for my lager which I plan to brew in a couple days is making a 1L starter from a vial, then cold crash, decant and mix up, and pitch maybe 200ml of that slurry into a 2L starter, which I will then subsequently cold crash and decant. Then when I pitch later in the week, I will pitch the yeast slurries from both the 1L and 2L flasks.

So all told I think I'll have around 2700ml of healthy, viable yeast for my 1.067 lager.
 
DonutBrew said:
I probably will try to plan to make a starter next time, but the old "RDWHAH" thinking didn't fail me this time.
QUOTE]

While the RDWHAHB thinking didn't fail you this time, I don't think ( and I don't think you do ) you should make it a habit.

I always pitch a decanted gallon of starter wort or use 40g of rehydrated/aclimitized dry yeast when doing 5 gallon lagers. And I pitch cold yeast into cold wort. Never failed me yet.
Click to expand...
 
Using the calculator on wyeast's website you can step up and really amp up the yeast count (to Jamil's recommendation) without making a gigantic starter.

A 1L on stir plate, stepped up to 3L overall got me well above the 1.5 x plato ratio people have quoted on this site.
 

Similar threads

DevilsCups
What's the deal with White Labs London Fog pitch rate?
Replies
7
Views
409
DevilsCups
DevilsCups
PashMaddle
Accentuating phenols and esters in witbier
Replies
2
Views
251
Franktalk
Franktalk
hilljack13
Another yeast pitch rate question
Replies
35
Views
803
ncbrewer
N
H
Yeast starter not starting
Replies
16
Views
992
HB2112
H
Z
Smack pack?
Replies
12
Views
526
skunkape
skunkape
InkBird 300

Latest posts

Back
Top