chimay red clone

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rexbanner

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I have been trying a lot of belgian beers lately and I finally tried Chimay Red and absolutely loved it. I've had other dubbels before but none as smooth and easy to drink as Chimay Red. It's a beer I'd love to have readily available but it's too damned expensive. What's the solution? CLONE IT!

Here's my notes from Brew Like a Monk:

Chimay Red:

OG: 1.061
ABV: 7.1%
Apparent Attenuation: 88%
IBU: 19
Malts: Pilsener, caramel
Adjuncts: Wheat starch, sugar
Hops: Bittered with American, flavored with Hallertau
Yeast: WLP500 or wyeast 1214

Fermentation: Pitch at 68, rise to 82 after one week
Secondary: 3 days at 32
Side note: Refermented with primary yeast


Typical ingredients in a dubbel:

Pilsener: 60-92% (avg 61%)
Caramel: 0-40% (avg 2%)
Special B: 0-12% (avg 5%)
Wheat: 0-22% (avg 1%)
Sugar: 3-18% (avg 10%)

Keeping all that in mind, I set about making a rough grain bill that would incorporate all of what Stan says is in Chimay Red, plus a little special B. Almost all homebrew recipes include it and I don't want this beer to be too one-dimensional.

Rough grain bill:

Pilsener 60%
Caramel 60 10%
Dark Candi: 5%
Sugar: 10%
Wheat: 10%
Special B: .5 lbs or less

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Chimay Red Clone
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Style: Belgian Dubbel
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.02 gal
Estimated OG: 1.064 SG
Estimated Color: 16.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 15.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 71.1 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 8.9 %
1.00 lb Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 8.9 %
0.25 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 2.2 %
0.50 lb Candi Sugar, Amber (75.0 SRM) Sugar 4.4 %
0.50 lb Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 4.4 %
1 Pkgs Belgian Ale (White Labs #WLP550) Yeast-Ale

0.50 oz Northern Brewer [8.50%] (60 min) Hops 14.3 IBU
0.50 oz Hallertauer [4.80%] (5 min) Hops 1.6 IBU

This is what I came up with. Mash at 149 for 90 mins, ferment at 67 for one week, then rise to room temp which is around 78-80. I couldn't think of an appropriate American hop for bitterness but if anyone knows of any, I'd love to hear it. Let me know any suggestions in general. I understand that using the same ingredients as Chimay might not create as good a clone as using different ingredients (based on the differences in process). However, I figured it would be a good place to start.
 
I'd use a bit more sugar and dubbel up on the special B. The sugar helps dry it out. Getting it to dry out is very important in a belgian beer. The special B will give you the dark malt characteristics needed in a dubbel.

Start the ferment cooler like 65F to control the hot alcohols and keep it from being crazy fruity. Then warm it as the ferment slows to 70F. This keeps the yeast warm for full attenuation. Make sure you pitch the proper amount of healthy yeast. Make a starter.
 
I'd use a bit more sugar and dubbel up on the special B. The sugar helps dry it out. Getting it to dry out is very important in a belgian beer. The special B will give you the dark malt characteristics needed in a dubbel.

Start the ferment cooler like 65F to control the hot alcohols and keep it from being crazy fruity. Then warm it as the ferment slows to 70F. This keeps the yeast warm for full attenuation. Make sure you pitch the proper amount of healthy yeast. Make a starter.

Yeah, doubling the special B to half a pound could be a good idea, but at the same time I am hesitant to add more just because it's not mentioned in Brew Like a Monk, and also because at over half a pound it's supposed to add a plum taste. I never noticed any flavors close to plum-like Chimay Red, so I don't even want it to get close to that level. And once again it's supposedly absent from the recipe anyways.

I understand the fermentation process. A long post to read, I know. ;)
 
The recipe looks like it should be pretty close, I did something pretty similar a year ago. It used around 0.66lb caravienne instead of special B, but I think 0.5lb special B would be closer. I think 1lb of aromatic malt in there would help it out too. Oh and personally, I'd use caramunich instead of C60.
The hops we used were saaz, then hallertau and styrian goldings.
 
I'm brewing a 'starter batch' this weekend using the Chimay strain and plan to make a Chimay Red clone with the cake.

Timely thread, I really didn't have any idea of the recipe but was planning to use Pils/Aromatic/Crystal (still unsure of Lovibond, 120L is the darkest I have) and then a mixture of cane sugar and dark candi syrup. I have wheat malt on-hand so adding that is no problem. I orig was shooting for the 1.064 and ~84% attenuation (just shooting in-the-dark, was also going for slightly higher IBU) but 1.061 and 88% and less IBUs sounds good. I'll bitter with Willamette and finish with Hallertau.

Only had the real thing once (on tap) and it was wonderful.
 
How did this turn out?

I have not brewed it yet. I keep postponing it because I want it to be my swan song of brews and I've still yet to have a perfect brew day. It's definitely my next batch, though, I promise you. Within two months there will be a follow-up post to this one using the following recipe:

9 lbs belgian pilsener
.5 lb unmalted wheat
.5 lb caramunich
.5 lb special b
.5 lb aromatic
.5 lb amber candi sugar
.5 lb sugar
.5 oz galena @ 60
.5 oz hallertauer @5
white labs 530 yeast

.065 OG, 23 IBUs, 16 SRM

Really looking forward to this one.
 
I have a recipe at home, Ill get for you guys I was my Chimay Red clone, I got it dead on. Did a blind taste test with a Chimay Red, with a couple buddies, not one could tell the difference.
 
fyi:

wlp 500 is the Chimay yeast

wlp 530 is Westmalle's

I'm gonna guess that 16 SRM is too light for Chimay.
 
Pilsner- 11 lbs
Amber CandiSugar- 1 lbs
CaraMunich- 8 oz
Aromatic- 4 oz
Chocolate Malt- 1 oz
Styrian Golding 1.25 oz @ 60 mins
Styrian Golding .25 oz @ 15 mins
WL500


Maida- mine was 17srm IIRC it was dead on.
 
fyi:

wlp 500 is the Chimay yeast

wlp 530 is Westmalle's

I'm gonna guess that 16 SRM is too light for Chimay.

Check the style guidelines for dubbel. The ceiling is 17 SRM.

I don't believe that "X yeast is X's" when it comes to brewing Belgian beers. Read Brew Like A Monk. These beers are not produced using homebrewing methods. They are sometimes given multiple yeasts, and treated to different temps. I also just read a magazine article where a grad of U.C. Davis recalled his attempt to isolate Chimay yeast, with very poor results.

I believe that 530 is more likely to produce the results I'm seeking.
 
Pilsner- 11 lbs
Amber CandiSugar- 1 lbs
CaraMunich- 8 oz
Aromatic- 4 oz
Chocolate Malt- 1 oz
Styrian Golding 1.25 oz @ 60 mins
Styrian Golding .25 oz @ 15 mins
WL500


Maida- mine was 17srm IIRC it was dead on.

Cool. So you went a little less malty? That looks like a tasty recipe, similar to the one in Clone Brews.

Basically I just took Jamil's dubbel, messed around with it enough to fit the profile for Chimay Red given in Brew Like a Monk, and that was the result.

It may be pointless to try to really duplicate making it based on the ingredients the monks use, seeing as you can't duplicate their methods.
 
Check the style guidelines for dubbel. The ceiling is 17 SRM.

I don't believe that "X yeast is X's" when it comes to brewing Belgian beers. Read Brew Like A Monk. These beers are not produced using homebrewing methods. They are sometimes given multiple yeasts, and treated to different temps. I also just read a magazine article where a grad of U.C. Davis recalled his attempt to isolate Chimay yeast, with very poor results.

I believe that 530 is more likely to produce the results I'm seeking.

I've read Brew Like A Monk. A homebrewer with good fermentation control can easily produce the same results as the Belgian breweries. Make a starter of repitch from top cropping. Control your temps and you should get very authentic results.

Chimay is fermented with one yeast. Perhaps they use a second yeast for bottling but the primary ferment is a single strain. The bottling yeast has very little effect on the flavor. It's just used for carbonating the beer. White Labs and Wyeast offer the Chimay strain. It's WLP500 or Wyeast 1214. This is common knowledge. White labs and Wyeast are pros and have been isolating and growing these strains for years. I haven't read that article but I'm guessing the Davis grad did not use the equipment and methods available to these pro yeast labs.

WLP530 is the Westmalle strain. It's also used by Westvleteren.

I've used both 500 and 530 and the 500 is much fruitier. 530 makes great beer but if your trying to clone Chimay then use the 500.
 
I've read Brew Like A Monk. A homebrewer with good fermentation control can easily produce the same results as the Belgian breweries. Make a starter of repitch from top cropping. Control your temps and you should get very authentic results.

Chimay is fermented with one yeast. Perhaps they use a second yeast for bottling but the primary ferment is a single strain. The bottling yeast has very little effect on the flavor. It's just used for carbonating the beer. White Labs and Wyeast offer the Chimay strain. It's WLP500 or Wyeast 1214. This is common knowledge. White labs and Wyeast are pros and have been isolating and growing these strains for years. I haven't read that article but I'm guessing the Davis grad did not use the equipment and methods available to these pro yeast labs.

WLP530 is the Westmalle strain. It's also used by Westvleteren.

I've used both 500 and 530 and the 500 is much fruitier. 530 makes great beer but if your trying to clone Chimay then use the 500.

But I don't consider Chimay to be fruity at all compared to other belgians. They also ferment beer way faster and at different temperatures. According to BLAM, they pitch at 68, rise to 82, and secondary at 32 for 3 days. I don't think I could do that at home, nor would I want to.
 
But I don't consider Chimay to be fruity at all compared to other belgians. They also ferment beer way faster and at different temperatures. According to BLAM, they pitch at 68, rise to 82, and secondary at 32 for 3 days. I don't think I could do that at home, nor would I want to.

I fermented mine a 66-68*, extremely vigorus fementation.
 
But I don't consider Chimay to be fruity at all compared to other belgians. They also ferment beer way faster and at different temperatures. According to BLAM, they pitch at 68, rise to 82, and secondary at 32 for 3 days. I don't think I could do that at home, nor would I want to.

IMHO Chimay is distinctly fruity tasting. Like apricots, raisins and apples.

With the 530 or 500 yeasts I usually pitch at 65 and raise it to the low 70's during the first week. I don't use a secondary. But if If I needed to pitch at 68 and rise to 82 that would be no problem. I have a fermentation chamber with heating and cooling controls. I did a saison recently and started in the mid 60's and finished in the mid 80's The saison yeast (WLP565) really likes the heat towards the end for full attenuation. The chimay yeast (WLP500) also gets better attenuation if you heat it towards the end of the ferment. I've gotten good results in the low 70's. 80's seams excessive but I assume that Chimay does that to speed up the process. If you want to make a truly authentic Chimay you should definitely follow their fermentation schedule. The Chimay yeast (and most any yeast) produce different flavors at different temps. Proper temp control is a huge factor in beer flavor. Especially with a beer like this that derives so much of it's flavor from the yeast esters and phenols. Also, pay close attention to pitching rates and oxygen as they also have a big factor on yeast flavors.

Also the cold crash (secondary at 32) appears to be a method for getting the yeast to floc quicker so they can move to bottle faster and free up the fermenters for the next batch. The Chimay yeast (WLP500) is very slow to flocculate and will hang in suspension for over a week following the fermentation unless you crash cool it. I bet Chimay saves several extra days of fermentation time with these methods.
 
IMHO Chimay is distinctly fruity tasting. Like apricots, raisins and apples.

With the 530 or 500 yeasts I usually pitch at 65 and raise it to the low 70's during the first week. I don't use a secondary. But if If I needed to pitch at 68 and rise to 82 that would be no problem. I have a fermentation chamber with heating and cooling controls. I did a saison recently and started in the mid 60's and finished in the mid 80's The saison yeast (WLP565) really likes the heat towards the end for full attenuation. The chimay yeast (WLP500) also gets better attenuation if you heat it towards the end of the ferment. I've gotten good results in the low 70's. 80's seams excessive but I assume that Chimay does that to speed up the process. If you want to make a truly authentic Chimay you should definitely follow their fermentation schedule. The Chimay yeast (and most any yeast) produce different flavors at different temps. Proper temp control is a huge factor in beer flavor. Especially with a beer like this that derives so much of it's flavor from the yeast esters and phenols. Also, pay close attention to pitching rates and oxygen as they also have a big factor on yeast flavors.

Also the cold crash (secondary at 32) appears to be a method for getting the yeast to floc quicker so they can move to bottle faster and free up the fermenters for the next batch. The Chimay yeast (WLP500) is very slow to flocculate and will hang in suspension for over a week following the fermentation unless you crash cool it. I bet Chimay saves several extra days of fermentation time with these methods.

All I meant is that I would never let it reach 82. I have a good ferm chamber but I'd start at 64 and ramp up to 72. And you're right, Chimay does have those tastes, but when a lot of people say "fruitiness" to me it tastes like banana. I can't stand banana taste in beers. :ban: I have some memories of beers brewed without proper temp control.
 
I don't believe that "X yeast is X's" when it comes to brewing Belgian beers. Read Brew Like A Monk. These beers are not produced using homebrewing methods. They are sometimes given multiple yeasts, and treated to different temps. I also just read a magazine article where a grad of U.C. Davis recalled his attempt to isolate Chimay yeast, with very poor results.

I believe that 530 is more likely to produce the results I'm seeking.

Where to start... the yeast did in fact come from the listed breweries but over time they may or may not have tweaked the stock
(chimay did 20+yrs ago?)

Anybody can reculture Chimay yeast from the bottles, it depends on the freshness of bottle.

WLP530 -WY3787 is Westmalle

But I don't consider Chimay to be fruity at all compared to other belgians.
All I meant is that I would never let it reach 82. I have a good ferm chamber but I'd start at 64 and ramp up to 72. .

Then your tastebuds are missing the well known properties of that yeast and it doesn't need to get that warm to be fruity.
Dark fruit,fig,plums,ect are just some of the aromas of Chimay yeast.





Here is some info:
http://www.whitebeertravels.co.uk/chimay.html


Michael Jackson - The Beer Hunter Vols (torrent)
http://btjunkie.org/torrent/Michael.../44324b4c21caafa2e4a09ae9298416b3b6e12ba13dba
 
Where to start... the yeast did in fact come from the listed breweries but over time they may or may not have tweaked the stock
(chimay did 20+yrs ago?)

Anybody can reculture Chimay yeast from the bottles, it depends on the freshness of bottle.

WLP530 -WY3787 is Westmalle




Then your tastebuds are missing the well known properties of that yeast and it doesn't need to get that warm to be fruity.
Dark fruit,fig,plums,ect are just some of the aromas of Chimay yeast.





Here is some info:
http://www.whitebeertravels.co.uk/chimay.html


Michael Jackson - The Beer Hunter Vols (torrent)
http://btjunkie.org/torrent/Michael.../44324b4c21caafa2e4a09ae9298416b3b6e12ba13dba

Some people think that fruitiness = banana, and I hate banana. For example, Leffe tastes disgusting to me. Just a personal preference. I have no doubt that Chimay has those flavors you just described. And I have no doubt that fermenting it at a lower temperature will produce less fruitiness. I'm familiar with this concept. My only experience with belgian yeast is 550, and as promised it was a less fruity belgian yeast. I enjoyed it a lot. So I figured, why not try a less fruity Trappist ale yeast? I definitely notice the flavors you described in chimay red, but it's not in-your-face.

If a few of you with experience could promise me that using 500, along with proper technique and temp control (start at 64 ramp up to 72) I could brew a beer like Chimay Red with subtle fruitiness, I'll give it a shot. Like I said, before I had a ferm chamber I got "fruity" off-flavors in my beer so I'm very wary of trying anything described as fruity. No homophobe.

Anyways, going to order the stuff soon so if you can seriously vouch for 500, I'll try it. Otherwise I think I might be best off with 530 because if worst comes to worst, it will just be lacking a little fruit flavor.
 
For example, Leffe tastes disgusting to me. Just a personal preference.

Leffe sucks:fro:
I hate that beer, always have LOL


chimay red clone
The topic is about brewing a chimay red clone, well you need to use the right yeast which is Chimay yeast.



That said I like wlp530 - wyeast3787 for dark Belgian beers best.
 
Leffe sucks:fro:
I hate that beer, always have LOL



The topic is about brewing a chimay red clone, well you need to use the right yeast which is Chimay yeast.



That said I like wlp530 - wyeast3787 for dark Belgian beers best.

Well you sound like you know your way around brewing Belgian beers, so I'll try using 500. Any recipe advice?
 
Not really as I only do 1-2 dark beers per yr, my speciality is blonds,triples,saison,ect with a few APA/IPA beers for my hop fix.

Lastyrsbrews


Very good forums>
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php#1


More info on yeast:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/whats-your-favorite-belgian-strain-why-216503/

Ok, should I listen to you or not? Cause saisons and tripels are Belgian beers.

I think I'm just gonna do my own thing. I'll reply to this thread when I'm done, ~2 months. Whether or not it turns out like Chimay, hopefully I'll just have a good dubbel.
 
...my speciality is blonds,triples,saison,ect...
:off: sort of

Houblon,
One of those articles you linked above mentions the Doree. I'll be brewing a Belgian Pale Ale as a 'starter' batch for a Grand Reserve clone soon and thought trying to 'clone' Doree would be fun.

This is what I gathered from that article:
Same grains as the red (but no 'malt extract' which I'm guessing is the Sinamar?)
OG = 10 Plato and is 4.8% ABV (which is like 92% attenuation and a FG of 1.003)
Has coriander and curacao orange peel.
Also seems they use some caramel malt(s) based on this comment; "Note that once a feed hopper is installed that will allow the segregation of Caramalt, the malt responsible for the color of Chimay Red and Blue, malt extract will no longer be used in the brews and will thus not appear on the labels."

Hmmm, are they segregating two or more different caramalts or segregating the caramalt from the pils malt?

Have you had Doree? What color is it? Does 92% attenuation sound reasonable? Any tips on hops or amount of spices?

So it seems like fermentables would simply be something like Pils/Caramel ??L (??%)/Wheat (~12%)/Sugar (~5%). Any guesses on the color and amount of 'caramalt'?
 
Have you had Doree? What color is it? Does 92% attenuation sound reasonable? Any tips on hops or amount of spices?

So it seems like fermentables would simply be something like Pils/Caramel ??L (??%)/Wheat (~12%)/Sugar (~5%). Any guesses on the color and amount of 'caramalt'?



Never sampled & had to do a google:

Chimay Dorée (Golden), 4.8% abv ale, brewed from very similar ingredients as the Red, but paler and spiced differently. It is a patersbier, intended only to be drunk at the abbey or at the nearby inn Auberge de Poteaupré, which is associated with the abbey. The monks themselves drink this variety rather than the stronger three. The Dorée is not sold commercially and the rare bottles which make their way out are through unofficial sources. Even the brewery's own web site makes no mention of this variety.

-
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/215/1811
-

OldSock: post Jun 29 2008, 07:07 AM

BLAM puts it at 1.040, 8 SRM, 16 IBU, 87% AA, spiced with bitter orange and coriander. It is about the same color as the White, so I would go with mostly pils, but with a lower gravity a touch of caravienna/caramunich might be needed to give it a bit more color. The attenuation is only 1-2% less than their other beers, so I would still add ~10% sugar to get it to finish around 1.005. Ferment with WLP500 or Wyeast 1214.

http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=94923&mode=linearplus
 
Ok, should I listen to you or not? Cause saisons and tripels are Belgian beers.

.

I'll keep pointing in the right direction but its your beer. How many fermentors do you have? I would tell you to split the wort & use different yeast in each fermentor.
(I did this a few yrs ago with whitelabs 5 belgian yeast-5 fermentors 1 wort)

The best way to learn is do your own testing, that way You know first hand what each yeast brings to the table.

Just keep a open mind.:fro:
 
Thanks Houblon. Just having the color helps trying to figure out the crystal malt(s). Seems there has to be a relatively dark crystal malt in there; even a full pound of caravienne doesn't get it up to 8 SRM (1/2 lb caravienne and 1/4 lb special B yields ~8 SRM).

I'll prob try something like (5.25 gal @ 75% BHE):
5# Belg Pils
.5# caravienne
.25# special B
1# Wheat malt
2.5 oz sauermalz (for mash pH)
.5# cane sugar (6.7%)
.5 oz coriander seed, coarsely crushed
.5 oz Curacao bitter orange peel
Belgian Saaz to ~16 IBU
Chimay yeast

I still can't get the numbers to align, 1.040 @ 87% AA doesn't yield 4.8% ABV by my calcs. I'll prob bump the OG up a tiny bit and kind of 'split the difference'.
 
I'll keep pointing in the right direction but its your beer. How many fermentors do you have? I would tell you to split the wort & use different yeast in each fermentor.
(I did this a few yrs ago with whitelabs 5 belgian yeast-5 fermentors 1 wort)

The best way to learn is do your own testing, that way You know first hand what each yeast brings to the table.

Just keep a open mind.:fro:

I brewed this:

9 lbs belgian pilsner
2 lbs munich
.5 lb special b
.5 lb unmalted wheat
.5 amber candi sugar
.5 lb cane sugar
.5 oz galena @ 60
.5 oz hallertauer @ flameout
wlp500

Just tasted some going into secondary. It is mindblowing. This may be the best thing to date that I have brewed. I'll keep this updated with how it goes.
 
Dont mean to bring an old post back from the dead but, I am a big fan of Chimay Red, and just want to know how it turned out using the recipe posted by rexbanner?
 
Dont mean to bring an old post back from the dead but, I am a big fan of Chimay Red, and just want to know how it turned out using the recipe posted by rexbanner?

Over time the flavor changed and I didn't like it as much. Dubbel is a really hard beer to make. Since then I have brewed many, many dubbels and realized you can make better ones than Chimay at home, although Chimay is still my favorite commercial dubbel. I also prefer wlp530 (westmalle yeast) now. I am leaning towards this one:
1.068 og
20 IBU

12 lbs pils
1 lb d-90 candi syrup
0.75 lb caramunich
0.50 lb aromatic
Wlp530
1 oz sterling @60
Mash at 148
 
Has anyone tried harvesting Chimay yeast from the bottle and mixing it with wlp500 for primary fermentation? I'm looking to brew this clone myself and have been on the fence on what process to use; just pitch wlp500, culture Chimay bottle yeast, combine both, use wlp500 for primary and keg condition with cultured Chimay yeast? Anyone try one of these combinations? I've read mixed reviews about using cultured Chimay yeast by itself.
 
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