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HOOTER

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Spokane, WA
I really appreciate my LHBS and the people that work there. They have fair prices (but not great), great stock, and a ton of knowledge that's been extremely helpful for me. That being said, I'm considering purchasing some ingredients from Northern Brewer and I'm feeling a bit guilty about it. It just seems like Northern Brewer has an amazingly diverse inventory that would be hard to match by any LHBS, which comes in handy when trying to make a brew that required specific, and hard to find, ingredients. Are the on-line shoppers here only shopping on-line because of the lack of a LHBS, or are some of you opting to avoid your LHBS and buy on-line instead, and why?
 
These threads come up often, so I will tell you what I have gathered from them (this is not my personal case, but a lot of people have this opinion): Do what you think is best for your wallet. The whole "I love my LHBS but they don't carry all the stuff I would like" is a GREAT reason to buy online. If Northern Brewer, Austin Homebrew, etc. can get all that specialty malt, your LHBS can too. If they choose not to carry it, it's their problem. You could recommend to your LHBS owner to carry the specialty malt, it may just be that: 1) he's lazy and doesn't want to expand his selection, 2) he simply doesn't know that there's a local demand for it (stuff like pale chocolate, etc.)
 
I'm a firm believer in supporting the local mom-and-pop operations, including LHBSes, but in this case, my LHBS is 2 hours away, so I do most of my shopping online. I don't support local businesses for the sake of supporting local businesses. I'm not gonna support a local business if they have lousy customer service, but they can always do special orders.
 
Your LHBS may not carry some grains because they do not sell quickly and may go stale. They may have carried it in the past and it was a bust. It never hurts to ask if they can special order something for you. The guys at my shop have been extremely accomodating, have a wealth of info, and have helped troubleshoot bad beers with me. Throw in some special events and it's extremely hard for an on-line supplier to top that I feel. There definately are benefits to online purchases, and if I NEEDED something that I couldn't get locally, would order at the drop of a hat.

I have to agree with you about the guilt though. I picked out a couple of kits online for Christmas without yeast for fear of improper handling by the gift giver. I definately felt like a cheating husband when I picked up some yeast from my LHBS.
 
My LHBS (American Brewmaster) is a good shop, as most everyone from the Raleigh, NC area will attest. I'm starting to use them more and the online suppliers less.

I do have to drive all the way to the other side of town to get there, though. Its not near anywhere else I would happen to be going so I have to make a special trip. Sometimes I do this on my lunch hour at work; its a good way to get away from the office for a while.

I try to buy in bulk and keep a decent inventory of different ingredients at home so I don't have to make many trips. I place my order through the website and specify "in store pickup." If there is any problem with the order they email me and we work it out so there are no surprises when I get there.
 
I usually buy online for the same reason - selection. I know of one here in ABQ, but I think he caters mostly to wine. He has an OK selection, but not the best. Once upon a time there were two LHBS in town, but sadly the one I used to shop has closed. I use a variety of locations, but Austin Homebrew has been the best for the flat rate shipping.
 
I'm not a firm believer in supporting any type of business. Businesses exist to make money from consumers, consumers want the best prices/selection/customer service/whatever. Therefore consumers should purchase their goods from places that provide what they're looking for and if a business can't provide that, then tough.

I understand the mentality behind wanting to support the mom & pops (I don't really like the idea of helping giant conglomerates) but it's my money and I'd like to keep as much of it as I can.

Any business that survives because of "consumer guilt" is really more of a charity than a business....in which case their are probably several charities where your $$ could make more of a difference :)
 
Like Beerthoven said, the LHBS here is great - the service, selection, everything. It's a long trip though, so now that I have the grain mill I try to buy in bulk.
 
I definitely prefer to use my LHBS because they are friendly, knowlegable and best of all, 3 minutes from my job! I hate paying shipping and I hate to wait if it is available locally. That said, I have ordered stuff that LBHS doesn't carry from Northern Brewer.
 
I buy faithfully from my HBS because if I don't he may go out of business. It's worth it to me to pay the extra money and not look for shortcuts or I might find myself ordering everything online. Here in Canada that means importing from the states at twice the price.

I did start searching for a supplier of bulk grains that I could grind myself but I found myself in that old dillema about supporting my guy. I had already decided that I would simply continue to buy from him to ensure my continued supply when I found out that HE is a bulk supplier. Two birds with one stone. Still don't have my grinder, but at least I can comfortably buy one now.

So to sum it up, if you have a local guy and he's important to you, support him as much as you possibly can. Lots of guys here don't have a HBS they can drive to and they wish they did.
 
Fingers said:
I buy faithfully from my HBS because if I don't he may go out of business. It's worth it to me to pay the extra money and not look for shortcuts or I might find myself ordering everything online.

That's my logic as well.
 
Fingers said:
I buy faithfully from my HBS because if I don't he may go out of business. It's worth it to me to pay the extra money and not look for shortcuts or I might find myself ordering everything online. Here in Canada that means importing from the states at twice the price.

I did start searching for a supplier of bulk grains that I could grind myself but I found myself in that old dillema about supporting my guy. I had already decided that I would simply continue to buy from him to ensure my continued supply when I found out that HE is a bulk supplier. Two birds with one stone. Still don't have my grinder, but at least I can comfortably buy one now.

So to sum it up, if you have a local guy and he's important to you, support him as much as you possibly can. Lots of guys here don't have a HBS they can drive to and they wish they did.


I'm curious, Fingers, are you here in Winnipeg? Are you perchance speaking of Scott over at Grape & Grain? Those guys are great. I buy all my supplies there, although I did pick up a couple kegs elsewhere, and my draft tower. Already had a regulator and tank. The prices are certainly reasonable enough, and I like that I can bring in my brews and get an honest and accurate assessment.

Any premium I pay, and I don't think it's a lot (shipping is a killer up here), is totally worth it.
 
My LHBS, is closer to my work than my residence, so I only stop in to pick up a few items. It is mostly a wine sales place that sells mostly kits for beer. They have no kegging supplies and yeast is $2. more than any place else.

Most of my purchases are over the net.

Do I feel guilty? Why, I ask you? If they stopped selling beer supplies would they feel guilty? I doubt it.;)
 
homebrewer_99 said:
It is mostly a wine sales place that sells mostly kits for beer. They have no kegging supplies and yeast is $2. more than any place else.

That's very different. Mine is a well stocked LHBS that carries a wide variety of goods. From expendables to Blichmann kettles and Fermentors, et.al. On slow days you'll often you'll find the owner in back with a wort boiling and Jamil blaring on the radio.
 
tentacles said:
I'm curious, Fingers, are you here in Winnipeg? Are you perchance speaking of Scott over at Grape & Grain? Those guys are great. I buy all my supplies there, although I did pick up a couple kegs elsewhere, and my draft tower. Already had a regulator and tank. The prices are certainly reasonable enough, and I like that I can bring in my brews and get an honest and accurate assessment.

Any premium I pay, and I don't think it's a lot (shipping is a killer up here), is totally worth it.

That is exactly who I'm talking about. Here's a little story about Scott:

I live about an hour and a half's drive away from Winnipeg but I was in the city for a few days on business. So I stopped by his store as I'm wont to do when in the big smoke. I happened to mention that I was in for a few days and he invited me to the Winnipeg Brew Bombers meeting. Well actually, it wasn't really their meeting because they had arranged a beer and food pairing event at one of the finer liquor stores that has a kitchen inside for these sort of things. Because it's a public liquor store the event is open to anyone over 18 that pays for a $30 ticket.

So I said to him that it sounds like a lot of fun, but my hotel is pretty far away from the event and the company would probably frown on me taking their vehicle out to drink beer. Turns out my hotel is in the same part of the city as his home. So he offers to pick me up at my hotel and bring me home. Well, his wife drove back from the event. We were both sampling.

Anyway, prior to this my only relationship with him has been as a customer in his store. Of course I'm a very good customer so we developed a rapport rather quickly, but I still thought it was extraordinary that he would do such a thing for me.

We have a symbiotic relationship. I need him and he needs me so I won't buy my base supplies anywhere else. Things like taps and kegs I get elsewhere because he either doesn't have the items or he simply can't sell them for even close to what I've gotten them for. I've never ordered a single kernel of grain, leaf of hops, or cell of yeast online and it's unlikely that I ever will.

Tentacles, you should put your location in your profile so that we know where you're from. There are a few of us Manitobans here and it's nice to be able to recognize fellow Canadians.
 
Its a bit different for me as well. I have to LHBS the one in my sig is not too great its just alot closer. But my preferred LHBS I will defiantly pay a bit more to support them. Great people very well stocked, very knowledgeable. Today when I picked up my regulator they were out but they searched around and found a damaged one and replaced a gauge for me. (Obviously if there is a problem I would take it back but there wont be) I killed alot of time chatting it up. They also bacially told me that Im a regular now and I owe them beer!
It really all depends on you situation.
 
I don't think you owe your LHBS any loyalty, its just that "if" they do a good job providing you with what you are required at a fair price then you will become a loyal customer. Most of the people on this site who swear by their LHBS have probably had great experiences with them, and therefore will only purchase online if it is necessary. I am lucky enough to have two shops within driving distance, one with a great selection but terrible service and the other with great service but not the best selection. I buy everything I can from the later, because the owner seems to care (and the prices are competitive), but I'm not going to feel bad shopping elsewhere if they don't have the ingredients I need.
 
I used to shop a lot online, mostly because it was slightly cheaper and there was better selection. But I find myself supporting my LHBS more these days, even when it is significantly more expensive. I realized that there are a lot of intangibles associated with my LHBS purchase that I don't get from an online retailer.

* The convenience of being able to drop in after work to grab some yeast or a pound of specialty grain is a big one. I used to wait and build up a big order if I shopped online just so I could keep the shipping costs down -- not very convenient when you realize you are out of a pound of chocolate malt for a recipe you are brewing tonight.

* A couple of guys in the store are good brewers, and I really like going in to talk brewing with them. I always pick up a good tip or two, and try to reciprocate. Much harder to get that with an online retailer.

* The store supports a lot of beginning brewers. They are the ones that REALLY need the helpful advice of the shop. That benefits me because it keeps interest in brewing high in my community, which keeps the shelves stocked at my LHBS, and lots of new members flowing into our homebrew club.

* Our homebrew shop is very supportive of my homebrew club. And not just with sponsorship/discounts. In the past, they have assisted with even organization, accepted entries for club competitions, advertised for us, etc.

* Finally, I know the owner of my LHBS. I have chatted with him many times about beer, my job, his business, and the ups and downs of life in general. He is really a friend. Like Fingers said above, I like giving my business to someone who I care about and I know will care about me.

Having said all this, I will still inevitably purchase online. But I find it harder to see the advantages these days since I realized how much I am getting with each purchase from my LHBS.
 
I love my LHBS. The people that work there know a lot, and they are friends of mine. The owner is a friend of mine. I go there all the time for the smallest thing. I often pay a little more to shop there.

I also buy stuff online all the time, and I don't think a moment about it. My LHBS is a business, and I am a consumer. That's the real world.


TL
 
HOOTER said:
I really appreciate my LHBS and the people that work there. They have fair prices (but not great), great stock, and a ton of knowledge that's been extremely helpful for me.

If I had a great shop like that I'd buy as much as I could there, then fill in the holes with NB or similar.

Now, the best thing I can say about my LHBS is that it is there. It exists. I am grateful that it does exist because sometimes I fail to plan and need something in a hurry. Or sometimes things are cheaper to buy locally rather than ship (bulk grain).

But I greatly prefer to buy from NB and Morebeer. I work funny hours that do not line up with the LHBS. The UPS man leaves stuff on my doorstep for me to open later, grinning like it's Christmas. NB does not lecture me, pester me, second-guess my ingrediants or pry into what I am making. NB does not put up ugly hand-drawn, egregious rules on the wall. NB does not make bizarre, seemingly autistic smalltalk with me at the register when I and lots of other people are waiting to pay.

I want someone to take my money and hand me the product with minimum annoyance. NB does this well; my LHBS does not.

Man, I'm grouchy today.
 
Dang fratermus. Your LHBS really sucks! After seeing your response I like my LHBS even more, which is why I'm struggling with shopping on-line. Even if I do purchase some products on-line, it will only be stuff my LHBS doesn't carry. Other than that, my LHBS will be getting my business for many years to come.
 
my LHBS doesn't have everything, but they keep a nice inventory and go through all their supplies very fast. Everything is fresh. Plus, they're so close, so friendly and it's such a nice shop that i wouldn't prefer anywhere else. i've shopped at other places and go online if i want to use something that's not available, but really...I'm spoiled at Oak Barrel :)

I'm sure they'd special order for me, too, if i wanted anything in quantity. Recently, they had one of their guys weld my keggle and my stockpot. He did excellent work on it, i can't wait to try it out.

Of course, i've been going there at least twice a week for almost 4 years now. I know everyone there and spend a LOT of money all the time. I'm sure that helps :D
 
There are two home brew stores near me in the Boston area, I've been less than thrilled with the quality of customer service in recent trips to the point that I purchase my last batch ingredients via online store.

Why should I pay more (significantly on some things) for poor service and a more limited selection? To Beer-wine.com and Modern Homebrew Emporium --> get your head's out of your a$$es and you'll get more business.
 
I love my LHBS. Great selection, great guy, great prices, all around great experience. (The Pumphouse in Struthers, OH, which is in the Youngstown area.) He doesn't always have everything I need in stock, but can order in just about anything, with enough "heads up". Usually I have a few different recipes and give him a call to see which one he has everything I need to brew.

That said, I wouldnt have qualms about buying online if there was something he couldn't get. Or, if my LHBS was a long way from me. Takes me about 20 mins to get there from my house.
 
My LHBS is great - they have almost everything that I need (they even do CO2 canister fills/swaps.) If they were to not carry what I needed, I wouldn't feel guilty about going somewhere else. If they don't carry it, they probably don't sell enough to keep it around and I can save headache and trouble by buying from somebody who does.
 
I was trying to buy from a local (local is like almost 45 minutes away) until I started getting weird supply issues (over a month for some Special B, etc). So I do a lot online. I still buy from the local guy in large orders for my specialty grains...but I plan in advance for it. Hops no way, freshness matters there and the turnover isn't good enough at the LHBS. Dry yeast is good too. They want almost $8 for liquid yeast though so that I don't buy there. But caps, buckets, etc I get from the local guy.
 
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