OG on IIPA was a little high...1.115

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LowNotes

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I brewed a beer that was supposed to be an IIPA...but the OG ended up at 1.115. Is this still likely going to end up in the acceptable range, and would I have to do anythign special to it, like add some champagne yeast to do additional fermentation?

I haven't taken an FG yet, so I don't know what it went down to at all...I pitched a bunch of S-05 from a batch I washed a few months ago. I also only made a 3 gallon batch...but hopped it as if it was a full 5g batch...so it might be way overboard on Maltiness, Hoppiness and ABV... which I am fine with as this is supposed to be something kind of special, but this is way higher than any other OG I've had and am feeling like I am in slightly uncharted territory...

Any advice, critique, or general wisdom would be welcomed. Oh, here is what went into it:

For 3 gallons post-boil (might be closer to 3.5, fermented in carboy with no volume markings):
16lbs 2-row
1lb 10oz vienna
13oz cara 10
13oz carafoam
3oz honey malt
13oz corn sugar

-1.0 oz Columbus Hops (90 Minutes)
-1.0 oz Nugget Hops (90 Minutes)
-1.0 oz Centennial Hops (35 Minutes)
-1.0 oz Cascade Hops (20 Minutes)
-1.0 oz Centennial Hops (15 Minutes)
-1.0 oz Cascade Hops (10 Minutes)
-1.0 oz Centennial Hops (5 Minutes)
-0.5 oz Cascade Hops (3 Minutes)
-0.5 oz Centennial Hops (2 Minutes)
-1.0 oz Simcoe Hops (1 Minutes)
-1.0 oz Galaxy Hops (1 Minutes)

Dry hop 2oz each cascade and centennial, but haven't done this yet.

Mashed at 158*, fermented at 68*, is currently aging in primary before transfer to secondary for further aging and dry hopping.
 
I would see where the US-05 takes the FG to. If at that point you think it is still to sweet and could use some more fermentation, you could probably pitch some champagne yeast or something with a higher alcohol tolerance to bring it down a bit more.

That being said, I am only guessing and am equally interested to know the outcome of this.
 
How long did you mash it for? A longer mash might've still given the beta amylase time to work a bit. You won't know until you get a FG though.

I've never used champagne yeast in a beer, but I've heard others say they didn't like it.

There's a thread going on right now about a stout that's too sweet too. the main suggestion on that one is to brew another lighter batch and blend them. (or raise the IBUs with a hop tea... That idea probably won't work for yours though)
 
The fact that you mashed so high might not help your attenuation much.

Yeah, was supposed to be 152*...but I had some issues getting the temps right since I am used to doing 5g batches with closer to 14-15lbs total grain...I thought the extra grain:water ratio would result in more heat loss at mash-in, so I used a higher strike temp than normal...obviously I didn't get it right:cross:

Afterwards I figured the extra non-fermetnables might help balance out the extra hops so I wasn't worried...but then the OG was so I have been kind of fretting if I need to do anything extra to try and compensate at this point.
 
How long did you mash it for? A longer mash might've still given the beta amylase time to work a bit. You won't know until you get a FG though.

I've never used champagne yeast in a beer, but I've heard others say they didn't like it.

There's a thread going on right now about a stout that's too sweet too. the main suggestion on that one is to brew another lighter batch and blend them. (or raise the IBUs with a hop tea... That idea probably won't work for yours though)

Mash was 60 minutes, which is all I have ever done. I did a mash out by raising the temp to 170* over a 10 minute period too.

Yeah...I thought I had read something about using champagne yeast for extra high ABV beers since it is better suited to the environment, but my only experience with the stuff is apfelwein, and in that it takes the FG down below 1.000 for me everytime, and I defintely wouldn't want it doing that to my IIPA. I literally cringed at the thought when I typed that...
 
Next time use this calculator to help you with your strike water temp. Once you get a handle on your equipment loss this makes figuring out water volumes and temps a piece of cake!

http://www.brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php

I find that this calculator is spot on with mash temp IF I preheat my mash tun first (52 qt rectangular cooler) with hot tap water.
 
maltiness/hoppyness balance can be checked by bitterness ratio

IBU/(1-OG) = bitterness ratio. for IIPA that can be .667 to 1.714
 
I had a bock that the og was 1.093 it took 3 months before it started tasting good. But man what a kick, drink one 16 oz and you couldnt get out of the chair. Not too sweet but had a chocolate and coffee taste.
 
With an OG that high and this many hops, this would probably be considered an American Barleywine. But, mashing really high with a really high OG will most likely lead to a high FG and an overly sweet finished beer. So as was mentioned above, blending with a very dry beer might be a good idea. You could also add enzymes to further break down the unfermentable sugars. Beano is an amylase enzyme, so you could use that. But I would just wait and see how it turns out then go from there.

Also, champagne yeast isn't going to consume unfermentables that beer yeast won't. It probably won't even ferment as well as the the US-05 because champagne yeast has been engineered to ferment very simple sugars found in grapes, not complex sugars found in wort. If you want to add a different yeast you should go with a beer yeast like WLP099 super high gravity and make a starter.

Good luck! :mug:
 
With an OG that high and this many hops, this would probably be considered an American Barleywine. :mug:

When it doesn't turn out how you imagined, change the style! Haha, best fix to your problem yet.
 
Cool, thanks for all the advice everyone :ban:

I also realized I had another concern with the high ABV and potential impact on yeast health, will this impact my bottle carbing?

I understand that the bottle sugar is easily fermentable by the yeast, so if they are awake at all they should gobble it up and fart-up my beer nicely...but if the ABV has pushed them to sleep, is it possible they won't be able to effectively carb the bottles?

My memory is fuzzy, but I am thinking that may have been what I saw the use of champagne yeast in reference to; a way to carb a beer with an ABV too high for the original ale yeast. Is this an actual thing/concern, or is my imagination getting me in trouble? :fro:
 
Higher gravity/ABV beers sometimes do take longer to carbonate (like a month or two instead of a couple weeks). It depends on how well you treat the yeast, how long it ages before it is bottled, what temperature the bottles are stored at, etc. Unless you age it for a long time before it's bottled you will probably have enough yeast to carbonate. You could always add a little yeast at bottling if you're worried, or if you don't want to wait as long for it to carbonate. Adding bottling yeast won't hurt anything if you do it in the right quantity.
 
Higher gravity/ABV beers sometimes do take longer to carbonate (like a month or two instead of a couple weeks). It depends on how well you treat the yeast, how long it ages before it is bottled, what temperature the bottles are stored at, etc. Unless you age it for a long time before it's bottled you will probably have enough yeast to carbonate. You could always add a little yeast at bottling if you're worried, or if you don't want to wait as long for it to carbonate. Adding bottling yeast won't hurt anything if you do it in the right quantity.

What would qualify as a "long time"? I was sort of thinking I would do 1 month in primary, 2 months in secondary w/dry-hop for last 14 days, bottle after that at the 3-total-months-from-brew-day mark. I am basically pulling this from thin air, sort of scaling up my normal IPA times. I was then going to figure 5-6weeks for carbing, and depending on how the first one I open is, either let it go longer or start chilling them.
EDIT: I actually was going to let them age in bottles for another couple months probably, not chill right away. But I hear a lot about hop flavors/aromas disappearing over time and I want to be careful not to lose that.

As far as adding yeast at bottling, if I take a jar of my washed S-05, give it a small starter 2-3 days before to let it wake up, would I just pitch the whole thing into my bottling bucket right after tossing my sugar-solution in?
 
At 3 months you will probably be fine with most beers unless you cold crash it or something. I was thinking more around 6 months or so. I had a 9% tripel that I bottled after almost 3 months and it carbed up just fine.

Also, I think that would be way too much yeast. You don't need to make a starter. From what I've read people are adding something like 1 tsp or so of dried yeast per 5 gallons in the bottling bucket. I would do a search to find out exactly how much to add if you go that route, but I don't think it is very much. Maybe 1/10 of the pitching amount.
 
At 3 months you will probably be fine with most beers unless you cold crash it or something.

Even cold crashing shouldn't mess you up. It only takes a few yeast cells to carbonate, and you'll have plenty in there. Just might take longer. 2 months at most I would think
 
like peterj said, just call it a barleywine. Since that is essentially what you brewed.

Assuming the FG is at an acceptable level it should be pretty drinkable.

This is a lesson in why taking OG readings, and adding water when needed, is a good idea. I think we've all been there when a beer ends up at a lot lower volume than planned. Luckily yours look like it will still be a drinkable beer.
 
As far as the Barleywine VS. IIPA/DIPA...what exactly is the difference? I read a thread on here that said it mostly came down to Barleywine = Maltier flavors, meant for longer aging periods of 1-2+ years, while IIPA/DIPA = Hoppier flavors meant to balance the high ABV and not be aged as long.

Is that the general consensus? Honestly I had thought that a barleywine must use a wine yeast, since it is a "wine" and gets to such high ABV, but now it is sounding more like a difference in the flavors more than anything else...

For this beer, I will call it whatever is the best descriptor, I was just going for something with a big fat malty backbone, HUGE hoppiness, and extra high ABV. I played around with some free calculators online, and got something right around 200 IBU's, and if it finishes down to FG = 1.045 it should be about 10% ABV, and obviously have a lot of malty sweetness. Does that sound about right to others with more experience?

I'll try and remember to update this when I finally do take a FG reading and do a tasting.
 
The line between an IIPA and a Barleywine is somewhat gray. The main difference is as you said the maltiness. IIPAs tend to be drier with less maltiness and residual sweetness than barleywines. People often add sugar to IIPAs to make sure they are dry enough. Barleywines tend to have slightly higher ABV as well. When you are brewing either one though, you usually want to mash pretty low to make the wort as fermentable as possible so it doesn't end up too sweet. I mashed my 1.095 barleywine at 148F and so far it has gotten down to 1.018. If you brew this again I wouldn't go above 150F.

I would never use a wine yeast to ferment barley. Beer yeast is a lot more hearty than you think. 10 and 12% ABV is definitely more stressful for the yeast than a regular 5% beer, but it's nothing that the yeast can't handle. I believe Sam Adams brews a beer that is around 20% ABV. Not sure what yeast they use but I know it's a beer yeast.

Also, wort reaches a saturation point around 100 IBU where no more iso-alpha acids can be dissolved in solution. So even though you may calculate 200 IBU the actual IBU in the beer will likely not be more than 90 or 100. You can of course always add more flavor and aroma which can be perceived as bitterness or just plain hoppy goodness!

Hopefully your beer will reach a FG lower than 1.045. That would be one thick and sweet beer. Just let us know how it goes!
 
As far as the Barleywine VS. IIPA/DIPA...what exactly is the difference?

Barleywines tend to be maltier, and typically do not have as much hop aroma. They definitely have a lot of crossover though.

Your beer should be pretty malty with a 158 mash temp. That's the main reason I think it will be more appropriately called a Barleywine. If you tell me I'm getting a IIPA I would expect something like Stone Ruination dry with hops overshadowing the malt.
 
Barleywines tend to be maltier, and typically do not have as much hop aroma. They definitely have a lot of crossover though.

Your beer should be pretty malty with a 158 mash temp. That's the main reason I think it will be more appropriately called a Barleywine. If you tell me I'm getting a IIPA I would expect something like Stone Ruination dry with hops overshadowing the malt.

Yeah, like I said I was definitely aiming for a lower mash temp...but goofed when heating my strike water since this was the first batch I was doing that was less than 5g. I looked up a couple threads on brew day to give me some piece of mind, and this one says that Lagunitas mashes their IPA at 160*, so I felt a little better afterwards.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/effects-mash-temperature-139318/

Of course and IPA and a IIPA won't be the same thing in the end...but I was hoping it might be close enough.
 
Most likely nobody will even know it wasn't supposed to turn out like it does unless you tell them. :)

Hehe, yep I will definitely be counting on that :mug:

And who knows, if it ends up tasty maybe I'll have found my secret recipe.:drunk:
 
LOL @ a "little" high! How high were you aiming for? That's 10 points higher then the biggest beer I've brewed, a Belgian Dark Strong 1.105 OG and it finished at 1.022 after a LOT of coaxing. It could take you a while to get the FG down...but try gently rousting the yeast and upping the temps if you take a measurement and find you have a ways to go. One good thing about ale yeasts is that after the first 4 days or so (maybe a week with a beer like this) temps a bit higher then the uppper end of the range won't impart off-flavors, but it will help get you a few more points of attenuation. GL. I love big beers like that..hope it works out great for ya..but getting to FG on beers that big is normally a challenge, so don't be surprised if it is for you considering the mash temps as well...
 
Check the 120 minute clone threads. You could could consider doing something like that if it finishes with a really high og. Adding additional sugar in increments to the secondary should lower the gravity and boost the alcohol if it finishes too sweet for your liking.

I like the hop choices you went with. I just brewed a 5 gallon batch of 1.088 wort that fermented down to 1.011 and used the same hops as your brew. It needs to clear in the keg some more, but it's pretty amazing right now. That used a full ounce of simcoe, columbus, and nugget FWH and boiled for 90. It got another dose of columbus for more bittering and used varying amounts of simcoe, nugget, cascade and centennial in the later additions and dry hop.

I helped that finish low by mashing at 150, adding a pound of sugar and the only specialty malt was a half lb of c20. I brought out the malt in this one by using a bunch of munich as part of the base malt.
 
I attempted to brew a 5 gallon batch of DBIPA (Double Black IPA), ended up with a OG of 1.110 and a FG of 1.020 using just a double vial pitch of WL001. I didn't want to use the WL099 because I wanted to reduce the vinious alcohol flavors that are associated with that particular yeast.

That being said, I fermented in primary for 4 weeks, secondary for 4 more, and a portion of this beer went into an oak cask for additional aging of 8 weeks. This beer took quite a long time to bottle condition, it took 12 weeks. I kept checking bottles after the first four weeks, only to be disappointed by flat beer.

But once it finally carbed-up, I didn't taste the familiar flavor of a black IPA. I took a bottle to one of my favorite breweries where the owner and the brew master both told me I made a Russian Imperial Stout! (I made some errors in scaling up the hop ratio from my standard black IPA).

So I changed the name, and just tell people what it ended up being.

Point being, if it tastes good then it's good. Who cares what "category" it falls into unless you are brewing to style for competition. And with high ABV beers, just be patient. They will last a very long time, and will be well worth the wait.
 
I'm not sure if this was mentioned, as I'm too lazy to read the whole thread atm, but next time this happens, do a simple c1v1=c2v2 calculation. You will know how much water to add so that your OG won't be too high. Good luck though, and happy aging!
 
LOL @ a "little" high! How high were you aiming for? That's 10 points higher then the biggest beer I've brewed, a Belgian Dark Strong 1.105 OG and it finished at 1.022 after a LOT of coaxing. It could take you a while to get the FG down...but try gently rousting the yeast and upping the temps if you take a measurement and find you have a ways to go. One good thing about ale yeasts is that after the first 4 days or so (maybe a week with a beer like this) temps a bit higher then the uppper end of the range won't impart off-flavors, but it will help get you a few more points of attenuation. GL. I love big beers like that..hope it works out great for ya..but getting to FG on beers that big is normally a challenge, so don't be surprised if it is for you considering the mash temps as well...

Hehe, well I was sort of aiming for OG around 1.090-1.100, as I based my recipe's matls off of Biermunchers "Tits Up" IIPA. I do BIAB though, in a 10g pot, and typically start with 7.5g strike water for 5g in teh fermenter. With 7.5g of water, I can only get up to about 17lbs of grain before I start getting *really* close to the lip of the pot duing the mash. Since this recipe called for more than that, I aimed for a 4g batch, starting with 6.5g of strike water.

I used 2 paint-straining bags and split the 19+ lbs of grain between them, and after a 60 minute mash and 90 minute boil...only had 3-3.5g for the fermenter. And as noted, I also missed my mash temps, which will raise my FG too...resulting in some sort of weird Imperial Franken-barley Ale-wine.

I have been saving flip-top bottles for months. I have 13 of them, and each holds just over a pint, so I should get about half the batch in them. I'm hoping they will be at peak flavor around July when I have a big annual family gathering in the Outer Banks, NC which includes a number of people that enjoy good beer.

If it turns out to be crap...well I'll just drink it myself and bring some porters and IPA's that I know how to brew :ban:
 
We are actually having a family vacation in Kill Devil Hills sometime mid July! So might see ya around! Haha that's a decent amount of time to age something of that caliber lol
 
I have been saving flip-top bottles for months. I have 13 of them, and each holds just over a pint, so I should get about half the batch in them.

Though easy, its advised to NOT carb your beer in swing top bottles. They are not meant for the pressures of carbonating beer, only carbonated beer.
 
I have done 10 or so batches with 1liter swing tops and bottle carbed and they always tuned out great! I got first place with an oatmeal stout in a swing top lol
 
Though easy, its advised to NOT carb your beer in swing top bottles. They are not meant for the pressures of carbonating beer, only carbonated beer.

I've never heard that before. How would it be any different than bottles with caps? And swing top bottles usually have thicker glass so I would think they could handle higher pressure than regular bottles.
 
Agree, that may be the case with some swing top growlers. But Grolsh bottles for example have thick glass and have been prized by homebrewers for years.
 
The bottles I have were from Trader Joes, this is it exactly:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/cheap-swing-top-bottles-380522/

I too hadn't heard that swing-tops aren't good for bottle conditioning...It will only be about half the beer in swing-tops, the rest will be regular bottles. I guess I can put them in a tupperware bin when bottle conditioning just-in-case, but I really was hoping to use these.

Has anyone used these specific bottles from Trader Joes successfully?
 
The bottles I have were from Trader Joes, this is it exactly:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/cheap-swing-top-bottles-380522/

I too hadn't heard that swing-tops aren't good for bottle conditioning...It will only be about half the beer in swing-tops, the rest will be regular bottles. I guess I can put them in a tupperware bin when bottle conditioning just-in-case, but I really was hoping to use these.

Has anyone used these specific bottles from Trader Joes successfully?

Swmbo works at trader joes. they have an italian red ale in a swing top for $3. I use a lot of these for bottling carbed beer and kombucha.
I would be very very cautious about using the tjs swing tops for carbonating, for they have been thinning the glass wine bottles just to keep the charles shaw wine at $3- no joke! Got to cut costs somewhere!
 
I made a barleywine with S-05. I made my own clone of Bigfoot by Sierra Nevada. It was supposed to ferment down to around 10%ish. It went further and took it to 11.4%. I wouldnt worry about the yeast not being able to handle it. Just a matter of how much good yeast is in there. I pitched 5 packs of the stuff and it did well.
 
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