First Wort Hopping?

so, I think i want to try this. I want to move one of my hop additions to a FWH.. maybe one of the dry hop additions?? thoughts?? heres my recipe adn hop schedule

Boil Size: 9.71 gal
Post Boil Volume: 7.03 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.55 gal
Estimated OG: 1.072 SG
Estimated Color: 32.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 54.6 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 68.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 76.5 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
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Amt Name Type # %/IBU
15 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 83.3 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 2 8.3 %
8.0 oz Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.8 %
8.0 oz Wheat, (midnight) Briess (550.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.8 %
0.49 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 6 20.7 IBUs
0.99 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 25.0 min Hop 8 23.1 IBUs
1.0 pkg English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [35.49 Yeast 11 -
8.0 oz Cara-Rye (70.0 SRM) Grain 3 2.8 %
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
1.75 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 25.0 min Hop 7 10.7 IBUs
1.75 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs

FWH is a bit controversial, but I'm a die-hard fan and I can share my empirical results after about 250gal of FWH beer in the last 2 years.

I move my "bittering addition" (60 or 90min hops)to FWH.

My software increases the IBUs as a result, but my experience is that the perceived bittering is actually maybe 10% LOWER, not any higher.

I think party line of "it's like a 20 min addition" is nonsense, bunk, and balderdash. To me, it's like a 60 min bittering, only more flavorful and less harshly bitter.

My SOP is to vourlauf the first 1/2gal or so of 1st runnings, then begin running off into the kettle. Once the base is covered, I drop my FWH hops in so that they begin to open up and bind with the wort prior to actually heating the kettle to boil. Results = delightfully flavorful beer!

My 2 cents

I just did this with an IPA I brewed today, but with the 60 minute bittering hops. I can't imagine you would want to replace your dry hops with FWH, but what do I know.

Well, some may say it's bunk, but over 400 batches of experience tells me it's like a 20 min. addition. If I use it to replace the bittering addition, I don't find the beer bitter enough. And that's NOT the party line.....it's hundreds of FWH batches talking. But the bottom line is to try it a few different ways and decide for yourself.

The last time I made my pale ale I moved the 60 minute addition to FWH. I don't know that the beer was any more bitter but the bitterness seemed smoother than the previous time I brewed it.

Denny said:

Well, some may say it's bunk, but over 400 batches of experience tells me it's like a 20 min. addition. If I use it to replace the bittering addition, I don't find the beer bitter enough. And that's NOT the party line.....it's hundreds of FWH batches talking. But the bottom line is to try it a few different ways and decide for yourself.

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Well, bunk may have been hyperbole on my part (been drinking--surprise!), Denny, but do you really feel you get as much flavor as an actual 20 min addition? I'd agree on the lack of bitterness (in fact, indicated ias much in my initial response), but I've done 4-5 FWH SMaSH beers and really didn't get the flavor of the beers I've used a full 20min charge in.

Piratwolf said:

Well, bunk may have been hyperbole on my part (been drinking--surprise!), Denny, but do you really feel you get as much flavor as an actual 20 min addition? I'd agree on the lack of bitterness (in fact, indicated ias much in my initial response), but I've done 4-5 FWH SMaSH beers and really didn't get the flavor of the beers I've used a full 20min charge in.

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At least as much, if not more. The FWH experiment and blind tasting I ran years ago convinced me, but my tatse buds confirmed it.

Denny said:

At least as much, if not more. The FWH experiment and blind tasting I ran years ago convinced me, but my tatse buds confirmed it.

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Now i have a new side-by-side experiment to do! So what's your hop regimen on a FWH beer? FWH + FO/whirlpool?

And are you going to Philly for NHC?

so, maybe I just add an ounce of Cascade as a FWH and leave the rest of the recipe as is?

Piratwolf said:

Now i have a new side-by-side experiment to do! So what's your hop regimen on a FWH beer? FWH + FO/whirlpool?

And are you going to Philly for NHC?

Click to expand...

Yep to Philly.

Usually, I'll do FWH, 60, and FO. But sometimes I'll toss some in in between those times. Just depends on how I feel.

Tava said:

so, maybe I just add an ounce of Cascade as a FWH and leave the rest of the recipe as is?

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My method would be to move the 25 min. to FWH and leave the rest as they are.

I just listened to Stan Hieronymous--according to recent research, he said, it looks like FWH yields more iso-alpha acids than 60min additions, but b/c they're added at a different pH they express differently and so are perceived differently, but in the end (according to the interview) there's apparently no reliable formula for determining IBUs or iso-alpha acids amounts.