10 gal BIAB in a keggle?

Can it be done? I'm into session style beers. I ask because I have a keggle already. Yesterday my wife picked up another sanke keg. It's in pretty good shape. We were thinking about using it for kegging 10 gallon batches. Any advice?

Using a Sanke for kegging your own beer is doable, but it's a PITA. You might want to rethink the idea.

Personally, I would't even consider BIAB for a 10 gal. batch.

Rent a crane for lifting that hot, wet, sticky mess out of the keggle.

Actually, you will need to think about some kind of rig to lift the grain out of the keggle. The wet bag is going to weigh more than 30 lbs.

Personally I probably won't even be doing 5 gallon BIAB batches. Small 2.5 - 3 gallon test batches are my limit.

kh54s10 said:

Rent a crane for lifting that hot, wet, sticky mess out of the keggle.

Actually, you will need to think about some kind of rig to lift the grain out of the keggle. The wet bag is going to weigh more than 30 lbs.

Personally I probably won't even be doing 5 gallon BIAB batches. Small 2.5 - 3 gallon test batches are my limit.

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I def plan on rigging up a pulley system even for 5 gallon batches. The reason I'm even thinking about the 10 gallon batches is because of the sanke score.

I'm mostly thinking about this for an occasional use. Say, have 10gallons of cream ale or something similar for gatherings at the house.

I used two bags for my first and only 10 gallon attempt (it was actually an 11 gallon batch since I lose about a gallon to trub). I couldn't full volume mash so I made water corrections for the full volume, brought it up to temp, and poured off two gallons of the water. I mashed and then used the remaining two gallons to do a bit of a sparge. My boil started with around 13.5 gallons which will boil over with the hot break and whirlfloc additions if you aren't watching. Other than that it was good to go. Home depot sells a rope ratchet for not much money that works well for suspending the grains to drain.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...&langId=-1&keyword=rope+ratchet&storeId=10051

tonyc318 said:

I def plan on rigging up a pulley system even for 5 gallon batches. The reason I'm even thinking about the 10 gallon batches is because of the sanke score.

I'm mostly thinking about this for an occasional use. Say, have 10gallons of cream ale or something similar for gatherings at the house.

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Maybe think about if that's really easier than building a proper mash tun. Compare to www.dennybrew.com

Denny said:

Maybe think about if that's really easier than building a proper mash tun. Compare to www.dennybrew.com

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You mean for a 10 gallon batch? Or are you against BIAB? I'm guessing u mean for a batch that big. I hear ya. The more I look into using this keg, the more I think I might try to trade it or sell it to someone locally. Haha!

To me, doing anything larger than a 3 gal. batch via BIAB is unworkable. You need something like a hoist to lift the bag. It's easier to just build a mash tun and do it that way.

Fwiw my brother does 5g biab frequently and never seems to complain about it

Denny said:

To me, doing anything larger than a 3 gal. batch via BIAB is unworkable. You need something like a hoist to lift the bag. It's easier to just build a mash tun and do it that way.

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I have seen lots of people on this forum do 5 gallon batches. I'm pretty sold on the BIAB method for this. Is this the Denny behind dennybrew.com?

tonyc318 said:

I have seen lots of people on this forum do 5 gallon batches. I'm pretty sold on the BIAB method for this. Is this the Denny behind dennybrew.com?

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Yeah, that's me. I'm well aware that people do larger batches BIAB. I'm also aware that it doesn't mean that there might not be a better way to do it. My average 5 gal. batch is 15-17 lb. of grain. Once that grain gets wet, it makes a damn heavy, hot, wet bag to lift. I would definitley need a hoist or something similar. There's no way I can be convinced that's easier than making a mash tun
out of a cooler and a toilet hose. YMMV.

Denny said:

Yeah, that's me. I'm well aware that people do larger batches BIAB. I'm also aware that it doesn't mean that there might not be a better way to do it. My average 5 gal. batch is 15-17 lb. of grain. Once that grain gets wet, it makes a damn heavy, hot, wet bag to lift. I would definitley need a hoist or something similar. There's no way I can be convinced that's easier than making a mash tun
out of a cooler and a toilet hose. YMMV.

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First of all, thanks for responding to my posts. I have heard some podcasts with you and Brad Smith and have learned a bunch from you. I have certainly considered doing your batch sparge method. I have landed on giving the BIAB method a try more or less because I really like the idea of doing everything in one vessel. Not to mention, i have had to spend next to 0 extra dollars to make the jump to AG this way.

After more discussions with others and some further research, I think I will pass on doing 10 gallons via BIAB. I will probably rig up something like your site describes for batches that size. I have a pretty cheap and easy way that I can hook up a rope and pulley for hoisting the bag out of the keggle.

Aside from the BIAB vs cooler batch sparge, do you ever use a sanke keg for your brews? I'm really trying to figure out if it's worth hanging onto or if I should trade it or sell it.

I have done many 5 gallon batches BIAB and a couple of 9 gallon ones with more than 20 lbs of grain. Its really not that hard to lift the bag. You just need something to set it on to drain. Buy a new grill grate to slide under the bag once you get it out. Maybe I am stronger than you but I have no problem lifting 50lbs with one arm long enough to slide something under it. I am 55 years old and don't look like Charles Atlas.

tonyc318 said:

First of all, thanks for responding to my posts. I have heard some podcasts with you and Brad Smith and have learned a bunch from you. I have certainly considered doing your batch sparge method. I have landed on giving the BIAB method a try more or less because I really like the idea of doing everything in one vessel. Not to mention, i have had to spend next to 0 extra dollars to make the jump to AG this way.

After more discussions with others and some further research, I think I will pass on doing 10 gallons via BIAB. I will probably rig up something like your site describes for batches that size. I have a pretty cheap and easy way that I can hook up a rope and pulley for hoisting the bag out of the keggle.

Aside from the BIAB vs cooler batch sparge, do you ever use a sanke keg for your brews? I'm really trying to figure out if it's worth hanging onto or if I should trade it or sell it.

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Thank you for the kind words! I use a converted keg to boil in. I tried mashing in one a few times but found it to be more hassle than it was worth. I've used my cooler setup for 425 batches and am completely satisfied with it. Other than the converted keg and cooler, all I use is a 7 gal. AL kettle for heating water.

smokewater said:

I have done many 5 gallon batches BIAB and a couple of 9 gallon ones with more than 20 lbs of grain. Its really not that hard to lift the bag. You just need something to set it on to drain. Buy a new grill grate to slide under the bag once you get it out. Maybe I am stronger than you but I have no problem lifting 50lbs with one arm long enough to slide something under it. I am 55 years old and don't look like Charles Atlas.

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I'm 60 and built like Santa Claus! I can't think of anything that would make me lift 50 lb. of hot wet grain when there's an alternative that's as easy as what I do. Beliqeve me, I've really tried to understand the advantages of BIAB but as far as I can see I have nothing to gain from it.

Tony,

I have switched to BIAB and am not looking back. For me simplification without any loss of quality coming out of my kegerator is worth it!

I'm using a 20 gal Megapot from Northern Brewer with ball valve and thermometer. I brew on my porch under an overhanging ceiling. I climbed in the attic and installed a 2x4 brace between two joists above my brewpot, something like you'd do for a ceiling fan install. I then through bolted a heavy duty eye bolt directly above my brewpot through the ceiling drywall and into the support. Unobtrusive enough that SWIMBO didn't even balk.

Two small pully's salvaged from an old garage canoe hanging project and a small cleat mounted on my brewing cabinet that sits next to my brewpot to cinch off the bitter end and hoisting the (heavy) grain bag is a piece of malted cake! "Give me a pully and I'll move the world"!

Archimedes, FTW!

OK, maybe was talking about a lever, but you get the idea...

I had been doing 10 gal. all grain batch sparges for 18 months. Typically at least two runoffs from HLT to igloo cooler mashtun to brewkettle, all gravity fed. It worked fine but BIAB cuts two hours off of my brew day, no mashtun to clean and it's much less thermometer and stopwatch work. I attended Brad Smith's (Brewsmith author) BIAB seminar at NHC in Seattle and was so proud to hear how many people are embracing this technique and making great beer!

I bring my mash water up to just under target mash temp, add grain, add heat to desired mash temp, put lid on kettle, wrap kettle in Campmor sleeping bag, let it mash for an hour, hoist out the grain and fire up the burner. You don't need to mash out! I learned this from Brad's seminar and he had the data to prove it. Bag sits and drips above kettle until it starts to boil, squeeze the dripping bag if you'v got the hankerin' to squeeze. Once or twice is fine. My brew cabinet sits right next to my kettle, after the time spent drippin' and squeezin' the grain is a lot lighter so I uncleat the end, swing it over into a washtub sitting on my brew cabinet and from there you're off to the races with 13 or 14 gallons of sweet wort!

Sublime simplicity!
I'm a BIAB convert!!!

Nimbus,

That was a great post. Thank you for the response. Do you keg your 10 gallon batches in 2 corny kegs or do you ever use a sanke keg?

Thanks Tony, this site has been such a help to me I really wanted to be able to give something back. I'm glad to be of any help with my first post!

I run off into two 5 gal fermenters. I love 10 gallon batches because; 1) It's, like, twice as much beer as a 5 gallon batch (duh) and 2) It affords the ability to pitch two different yeast strains using the exact same wort.

I love trying out new yeast strains! I spring them on my friends, tell them it's the same beer with different yeasts and get them to critique the beer. Talk about a science experiments your buddies can get behind!

From the two fermenters I go to two separate corney kegs which was your question...

I often do one yeast for both fermenters as well. For example, I have been using Wyeast 1968 recently for my Panther Pale Ale (I love the way this yeast drops clear and the sweet malt character it carries over with the Amarillo hops I use in my PPA). I make a 1L starter on Wednesday or Thursday then step it up with an additional 2L of starter wort after 24-36 hours for 3L of starter that I split between the two fermenters. It saves me $6 for the second smackpack. I'm sure you could do the same thing if you fermented in a sanke keg.

Cheers!

Great thread guys! Does anyone know if nate smiths speech is anywhere to be heard or watched on the web?

Veedo said:

Great thread guys! Does anyone know if nate smiths speech is anywhere to be heard or watched on the web?

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Nate smith or Brad Smith? I was just about to check his site.

Nimbus said:

Thanks Tony, this site has been such a help to me I really wanted to be able to give something back. I'm glad to be of any help with my first post!

I run off into two 5 gal fermenters. I love 10 gallon batches because; 1) It's, like, twice as much beer as a 5 gallon batch (duh) and 2) It affords the ability to pitch two different yeast strains using the exact same wort.

I love trying out new yeast strains! I spring them on my friends, tell them it's the same beer with different yeasts and get them to critique the beer. Talk about a science experiments your buddies can get behind!

From the two fermenters I go to two separate corney kegs which was your question...

I often do one yeast for both fermenters as well. For example, I have been using Wyeast 1968 recently for my Panther Pale Ale (I love the way this yeast drops clear and the sweet malt character it carries over with the Amarillo hops I use in my PPA). I make a 1L starter on Wednesday or Thursday then step it up with an additional 2L of starter wort after 24-36 hours for 3L of starter that I split between the two fermenters. It saves me $6 for the second smackpack. I'm sure you could do the same thing if you fermented in a sanke keg.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

I am also wanting to do split batches with different yeasts out of the 10 gallon batch. I think with this Extra sanke, I will hold onto it and use it for an occasional 10 gallon batch of a session beer for large gatherings at our house. There are kits you can buy that will allow you to use both sanke couple and corny kegs in your Kegerator.

I'm glad to know people are doing 10 gal BIAB with some success though!

Denny said:

Thank you for the kind words! I use a converted keg to boil in. I tried mashing in one a few times but found it to be more hassle than it was worth. I've used my cooler setup for 425 batches and am completely satisfied with it. Other than the converted keg and cooler, all I use is a 7 gal. AL kettle for heating water.

Click to expand...

You're welcome. I didn't get the chance to make it to the NHC this year (even though I'm in Astoria, OR), but it was mentioned that Brad Smith did a talk on BIAB. How can people that didn't make it listen to NHC sessions? Anything online?

Do you ever come up to Astoria? There are a couple growing breweries here worth checking out!

tonyc318 said:

Nate smith or Brad Smith? I was just about to check his site.

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Oops i meant brad.

tonyc318 said:

You're welcome. I didn't get the chance to make it to the NHC this year (even though I'm in Astoria, OR), but it was mentioned that Brad Smith did a talk on BIAB. How can people that didn't make it listen to NHC sessions? Anything online?

Do you ever come up to Astoria? There are a couple growing breweries here worth checking out!

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Unfortunately, I seldom have the chance to get out of Eugene. Astoria is high on the list of places I want to go.

Hopefully by the end of next week at least the Powerpoint from Brad's talk should be at ahaconference.org. Maybe the audio, too. The timing is up to how busy the AHA staff is and if they caget it put up as soon as they hope.

Before every conference session they mentioned that they were going to post the audio from the sessions "in about a month". There were so many good seminars and some of them were running concurrently so I'm stoked to go back and listen to them. I bailed on note taking knowing I could go back and listen to them again not to mention the fact that every few minutes saintly dudes were going up and down the aisles with pitchers of delicious homebrew that related to whatever the guy on the podium was talking about. Several refills per seminar! Free beer at every other booth in the exhibit hall, Northern Brewer was serving fresh cask ales every couple of hours from a frickin firkin!

I particularly remember the three fantastic meads from moonlight meadery that got passed around at 9AM on Saturday. This was the morning after club night. I set my coffee down and started drinking mead. It would have been rude not to

I needed seatbelts from that point on for the rest of the day let me tell you! I awarded my liver a merit badge after that weekend.

I think I have derailed this thread. I should be chastised by a moderator.

One last note on the seminar audio recordings, they said they would be made available to AHA members only. I just checked and the 2012 audio isn't posted yet. Here's the link:

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/events/conference

I've done a 10 gal BiAb batch once with my keggle, a 6% apa.

I love BiAb but this maxed me out. I would prefer to get a 20 gal pot with straight sides. The smaller opening on the keggle is starting to irritate me on biab, since it squeezes the bag as I lift out and let's sticky wort flow down the sides.

I'm all for 10 gal batches-- but I want a new pot.

And I weigh 130 lbs, no issues lifting the bag-- how outta shape are you guys!?!?!

FWIW I have brewed both with cooler mash tuns and BIAB...I think I have recently maxed out my BIAB capability w/ 15 gal batches, 20 gallon kettle, and close to 40 lbs of grain. Rather than pulleys, I have found a simple cheap tie down lashing strap works very well, tie it around the top of the bag w/ the clamp close by.

http://www.harborfreight.com/automo...of-2-1-inch-x-12-ft-lashing-straps-67386.html

I just slowly lift and cinch tighten the tie down strap as the bag comes up...the benefit is that the strap locks and takes the weight, lift a few more inches and let the bag drain...when done draining have a large bucket to lower the grain into.

below is another example, but these straps are more complicated to use but will easilly lift 1-200 lbs...

http://www.harborfreight.com/automo...ch-x-15-ft-ratcheting-tie-down-set-90984.html

The benefit of these types of straps is that they lock and take the weight for you. With the ratcheting strap, grandma could hoist 100 lbs easily.

All this being said, I clearly see the pros and cons of both BIAB and cooler MLT brewing, I use and like both methods

KIAKillerXJ said:

I've done a 10 gal BiAb batch once with my keggle, a 6% apa.

I love BiAb but this maxed me out. I would prefer to get a 20 gal pot with straight sides. The smaller opening on the keggle is starting to irritate me on biab, since it squeezes the bag as I lift out and let's sticky wort flow down the sides.

I'm all for 10 gal batches-- but I want a new pot.

And I weigh 130 lbs, no issues lifting the bag-- how outta shape are you guys!?!?!

Click to expand...

I ordered a special keggle bag by Jeff Omundson at bagbrewer.com. It is tapered in order to help pull the grain out of a smaller opening of a keggle.

TimpanogosSlim said:

Fwiw my brother does 5g biab frequently and never seems to complain about it

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I just did my first all grain biab a few nights ago and it wasn't that bad at all. It makes me wonder if the skeptics/ detractors here have tried it at all....

wilserbrewer said:

FWIW I have brewed both with cooler mash tuns and BIAB...I think I have recently maxed out my BIAB capability w/ 15 gal batches, 20 gallon kettle, and close to 40 lbs of grain. Rather than pulleys, I have found a simple cheap tie down lashing strap works very well, tie it around the top of the bag w/ the clamp close by.

http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/tie-downs/set-of-2-1-inch-x-12-ft-lashing-straps-67386.html

I just slowly lift and cinch tighten the tie down strap as the bag comes up...the benefit is that the strap locks and takes the weight, lift a few more inches and let the bag drain...when done draining have a large bucket to lower the grain into.

below is another example, but these straps are more complicated to use but will easilly lift 1-200 lbs...

http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/tie-downs/4-piece-1-inch-x-15-ft-ratcheting-tie-down-set-90984.html

The benefit of these types of straps is that they lock and take the weight for you. With the ratcheting strap, grandma could hoist 100 lbs easily.

All this being said, I clearly see the pros and cons of both BIAB and cooler MLT brewing, I use and like both methods

Click to expand...

The ratchet straps are a brilliant idea! Thanks for posting that link.

Oddball said:

I just did my first all grain biab a few nights ago and it wasn't that bad at all. It makes me wonder if the skeptics/ detractors here have tried it at all....

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I've tried it for a small batch which is how I know I wouldn't want to do it for a larger batch.

tonyc318 said:

I ordered a special keggle bag by Jeff Omundson at bagbrewer.com. It is tapered in order to help pull the grain out of a smaller opening of a keggle.

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I have one too

My bag from Jeff at bagbrewer.com came today. So excited to jump into AG.

Denny said:

To me, doing anything larger than a 3 gal. batch via BIAB is unworkable. You need something like a hoist to lift the bag. It's easier to just build a mash tun and do it that way.

Click to expand...

You guys need to eat more spinach.

d_striker said:

You guys need to eat more spinach.

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It's not that we can't do it, it is that we don't want to!

To me anything larger that about 3-4 gallons is far too much of a PITA.

Hot wet sticky and messy (unless you are very careful).

I just did 10 g via biab Sunday. A mild with 17 lbs of grain. Not hard at all to move the bag around, even soaked.

Seems to me like you have lots of wet grains to move some how regardless of the method. It's more a matter of finding out how to do that easily. For people making 10 gallon batches with 20 plus lbs of grain in a mash tun, how do you dispose of thos grains? You found a way that was easy for you to do it. Just like BIAB, find a way that's easy to pull out the grain bag and dispose the grains.

wilserbrewer said:

... Rather than pulleys, I have found a simple cheap tie down lashing strap works very well, tie it around the top of the bag w/ the clamp close by.

http://www.harborfreight.com/automo...of-2-1-inch-x-12-ft-lashing-straps-67386.html

I just slowly lift and cinch tighten the tie down strap as the bag comes up...the benefit is that the strap locks and takes the weight, lift a few more inches and let the bag drain...when done draining have a large bucket to lower the grain into.

below is another example, but these straps are more complicated to use but will easilly lift 1-200 lbs...

http://www.harborfreight.com/automo...ch-x-15-ft-ratcheting-tie-down-set-90984.html

The benefit of these types of straps is that they lock and take the weight for you. With the ratcheting strap, grandma could hoist 100 lbs easily.

Click to expand...

I don't understand. How do you use the ratchet straps instead of the pulley?

The bag is draped over the pot, how do you raise it with straps?
Can you provide a picture?

Old thread that I started but thought I would update. I just brewed a 10 gallon batch of amber ale using the BIAB method in my keggle. It was tight! The grain bill was 19#. I put in 12 gallons of strike water. I also heated up a few gallons of water on the stove inside. When the mash was over I pulled out my bag. Dangit that was seriously heavy. Also a very tight fit. Some wort squeezed out onto the side of the pot.

I got the grain bag into my stacked buckets to drain (obviously the top bucket has holes in it). Then I sparged about 6 quarts over the grain bag. I squeezed the bag some and got to my preboil target of 12 gallons. I actually should have put in another half gallon as I under shot my volume a little.

The main reason I did 10 gallons of this beer is because I plan on giving a little over half of it away. I'm not sure I will do a 10 gallon BIAB batch again. If I do, I will wait until I get a pulley system rigged up.

Altogether a great brew day. Hit my target mash temp on the button of 154 and it only dropped to 151 in 60 mins. I ended up with 74% efficiency.

This is seriously the best hobby ever!

The fry basket / ratchet pulley combo makes biab a cinch. I can raise the bag, let it drain, sparge if I want to, all while starting the boil.