Some questions about 80/20 for a stand

I've been debating the various directions I could go for building my brew stand, and stumbled on the few threads I found regarding using 80/20 extruded aluminum and was just hoping someone can clear up a few issues I have. I've done a lot of searching and really haven't found much in the ways of single tier builds using 80/20, only about 2 really and I'm still unsure of some things.

To start, I'm upgrading so I want to build a single tier stand to support larger batches. At the moment I want it to fit 20 gallon kettles since that's what I have available (Bayou Classic kettles) but I like the idea of 80/20 because I can expand the rig as my equipment grows, which is good since I want to eventually expand to a larger boil kettle so I can handle 20+ gallon batches eventually (with other upgrades as well). I'm planning to use a Blichmann kettle for the mash tun, but intend to stick with Bayou Classic kettles for the HLT and BK throughout expansions, primarily due to cost.

The benefit I see with the 80/20 is if I build the stand properly, there should only be minimal parts required to expand the rig for fitting larger kettles down the road, but here's where I'm a little stuck. I plan to use BG-14 burners, but how should I mount them, and how should I build the rig so the kettles have proper support underneath of them, but without having the aluminum directly exposed to the burner? I don't know what kind of heat it can tolerate, so I'm not sure if I can use the 80/20 to build a frame around the burner (and wind/heat shield around burner) to hold it in place, or if there is some other method or material that would be recommended.

I've been looking at the pictures of Irrenarzt's build (http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f266/Smoooth69/photo-2.jpg) and have asked him a few questions, as well as dfess1's rig (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my-new-direct-fire-rims-brew-rig-247214/) and asked questions as well, but neither setup is quite what I have in mind, so I'm just curious if anyone else might have some feedback on the matter. I like the idea of the movable height for the burners, but I'm not so sure how easy it will be to fabricate the supports for the kettles, and compared to Irrenarzt's build, where the 80/20 is in direct contact with the flame to support them, I am assuming the BG-14 would be too much for that to be a good idea over the long haul.

Thanks, any feedback is appreciated! I'm working on some sketches in Google Sketchup at the moment, so I'll try to post some rough ideas I've been playing with here soon. Cheers!

I deal with 80/20 at work on a regular basis and the stuff is pretty nice. It does require you to have machining capabilities to be able to cut to proper length, adding features for installing all the connectors, etc. For instance, 80/20 uses an anchor fastener:

This type of fastener requires a precise hole accurately placed. If the hole is off just by a little it can make your life miserable. Not to mention it is impossible to drill by hand.Although 80/20 is versatile product you need to have the resources available to you in order to use it.

That's definitely good to know. I have been talking to a few local 80/20 dealers and the one mentioned given dimensions they can cut it all for a cost, but I guess we'll see. From doing some rough math though, it doesn't sound like going that direction would end up any cheaper than going stainless, so that's another area I'm torn. I mostly just want to build something that can grow with the brewery, at least up to a point, but I suppose if done right you could build a stainless stand with the same capabilities.

worstbrewing said:

I have been talking to a few local 80/20 dealers and the one mentioned given dimensions they can cut it all for a cost, but I guess we'll see.

Click to expand...

If you get them cut to size by 80/20, you would need to have your design 100% finalized beforehand. This can be hard to conceptualize every single component of the stand and not oversee any details before ordering.

worstbrewing said:

I mostly just want to build something that can grow with the brewery, at least up to a point, but I suppose if done right you could build a stainless stand with the same capabilities.

Click to expand...

Try and design your stand for the future system you have in mind. It will be easier to have a brew stand made to accommodate 30 gal batches then to build one for 20 gal and try to expand it up. Basically, don't space your burners too close together and give yourself some room.

DangerRoss said:

Try and design your stand for the future system you have in mind. It will be easier to have a brew stand made to accommodate 30 gal batches then to build one for 20 gal and try to expand it up. Basically, don't space your burners too close together and give yourself some room.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's where I'm torn I guess. Ideally I'd rather build the stand for possibly fitting 55 gallon kettles some day, and find some way to accommodate smaller kettles in the meantime, but it seems like it could be major overkill for a while. I have no idea at what pace I'll be upgrading it, but I don't anticipate it will be an immediate jump either. To that point though, I'm almost debating if I would be better off just building a stainless stand if I'm going to build it big to start, sounds like it would be less long-term hassle all around.

Go big or go home right?

Side note: I have a couple friends who play guitar. One friend would constantly be upgrading his amp when he could afford to. He made a lot of small steps before finally purchasing a half stack tube amp. Where another buddy went from his beginner amp and jumped up to the half stack tube amp without the little steps between. By cutting out the little steps, he saved more $$$ overtime. Granted the initial cost is way more but overtime it was a money saver.

If you plan on rolling your stand around often on anything except smooth floor, keep in mind the 80/20 stuff doesn't hold up well to being moved in this application.

Have you considered buying a ~$200 MIG welder and using mild steel? Welding really isn't that difficult. Material costs would be $100 or less. You can drive yourself batty trying to future proof a desgin. If you own the welder, you can change it up at will. It is a paradigm shift over nuts and bolts. You could even prototype it until you figure out exactly what you want, and then sell your prototype.

Mild steel will outlast you, and your grandchildren, but if you really want stainless, that requires more than a $200 welder. It may still come out close to buying and shipping a stand, and you would have a stand and a welder.

@DangerRoss - Yeah, that has been something I've been weighing in on too, as it would make more sense to just invest now for something that will ultimately do what I want anyway. On the flip side, if I can cut the cost down to a pretty small amount I think it could be more justified to do it in steps, but we'll see.

@cwi - That has been one concern with using 80/20, I feel like while it offers expansion, etc that same flexibility does make it seem potentially lower quality over the long run. I don't know anything about welding, but my brother did basic plumbing just soldering pipes together and another friend of mine did say he was familiar with some kind of welder but I forget which. I suppose it might be worth the investment of a welder if I can find other uses for it. As for mild steel, I'm honestly not familiar. What gauge, size tubing, etc would be needed to build something like I mentioned, even if just on the 20 gallon scale? If we're talking $100 or so in materials, I could almost justify not being able to upgrade it later. What kind of places would I look for to pick some mild steel up? Any recommendations with regards to a MIG welder, brand or anything, any good sources to learn to use it? Thanks, this is a direction I definitely hadn't considered but might just answer all of my problems :rockin:

Did some research, so my question regarding mild steel now is, I see a lot of people seem to use 2x2, or 1.5x1.5 square tubing, but I've seen debate between 1/16 vs 1/8 gauge, any thoughts between the two gauges, two square sizes? I'm gathering that 2x2 and 1/8 would definitely work fine, but is it necessary, is it overkill for 20-30 gallons? I know it seems fine for other 10 gallon batches, just want to make sure I'm not pushing the boundaries too much.

If you plan on eventually brewing 20-30gal batches I would go with the thicker gauge square tubing. You don't want the tubing to deflect under the weight.

Besides, think of it this way. You will be less angry to have a brew stand that is over built and heavy versus an under built stand that doesn't handle 20+ gal. batches.

worstbrewing said:

Did some research, so my question regarding mild steel now is, I see a lot of people seem to use 2x2, or 1.5x1.5 square tubing, but I've seen debate between 1/16 vs 1/8 gauge, any thoughts between the two gauges, two square sizes? I'm gathering that 2x2 and 1/8 would definitely work fine, but is it necessary, is it overkill for 20-30 gallons? I know it seems fine for other 10 gallon batches, just want to make sure I'm not pushing the boundaries too much.

Click to expand...

If it were me, I would build a stand for the batch size in the foreseeable future (~1 year). I would also build one out of the cheapest stuff that would work. This will be your first crack at welding and designing a stand. Chalking this one up to prototyping will take away a lot of the pressure of making the "perfect" brew stand on your first try.

One guy suggested old bed frames as a cheap source of mild steel angle, as people give them away regularly. Angle is more than sufficient, but the tube is nicer, even for a prototype. It is really just a time and money issue. Even if it starts to sag, you can just weld another brace in. Welding is a game changer- you put the pieces in place, run a bead, and it is like it was all carved from a solid chunk of metal. No hole drilling, bits snapping, bolts breaking, etc.

The building of the stand itself is a matter of hours. Automation is what jumps the labor into man-days.

Here's my stand in progress. Part stainless, part extrusion. I'm using 20g kettles (should be here Thursday!). Thought you might want to see a different design, although I really wouldn't use this design for much more than a 15g batch.

worstbrewing said:

@cwi - Any recommendations with regards to a MIG welder, brand or anything, any good sources to learn to use it? Thanks, this is a direction I definitely hadn't considered but might just answer all of my problems :rockin:

Click to expand...

It really depends on what you want it to do, and how much money you are willing to spend. Several of the Harbor Freight MIG welders have even been recommended by some pro welders on HBT as a good value. Miller makes some of the more respected machines, but it is like a Ford vs. Chevy debate.

Craigslist is always ripe with welders, if you want to sort through them and check on the value. The biggest choice is whether you want to use gas (CO2 conveniently) right off the bat, or just use flux cored wire (no gas). Unless you really like collecting tools, and have money to spare, I would suggest getting a cheap portable flux core machine with around 175 amps. A 125 amp machine will work, but ratings are very dubious. If it is only a few bucks more to step up to one that has gas hook-ups for future use, that is a worthwhile upgrade.

Something to consider is whether you have access to 220VAC (dryer outlet, or your elec service panel) where you need to weld. The cheap welders that only take 220v are generally a little better and more powerful than the 110vac units. If no 220v access, look for a 110vac unit, or dual voltage ($$) machine.

If you're going to go the welding route, I'd get the thicker walled tubing. Having learned how to weld this past spring, I'd want the thicker wall when starting out. Help cut down on blow through when you're learning.

I think I'm going to go the learn to weld route

I normally jump into a project and then learn the hard (and expensive) way. Instead of that, with welding I would look for a community college that has a night school beginning course in welding. Might as well learn the proper way. Then I would buy a welder with knowledge gained from the class.

Good luck, welding is straightforward if you have the tools and learn technique.

Thanks for all the feedback, I think I will go the welding route, using 2x2 mild steel tubing, 1/8" gauge. I don't have 220V service in my garage, so that will make the MIG welder a little tricky, but it sounds like my friend may know someone who used to MIG weld for a living so hopefully we can work out some plans with him, if nothing other than to teach.

If I do go the route of purchasing a MIG welder, any thoughts on this one? http://www.harborfreight.com/90-amp-flux-wire-welder-98871.html It's the only 120V I found on their website, but since I know virtually nothing about welding I have no clue if its even remotely worth purchasing for this type of welding.

I know it's a pretty typical stand, but wanted to see if anyone has any feedback on my sketches so far: http://www.worstbrewing.com/images/brewhouse/
I forget how tall the default model in the picture is, but I'm fairly short (5'5") so one thing I've been throwing around is making the stand a little shorter, any thoughts? Any recommended height for the stand itself? The kettles in the sketches are Bayou Classic 82-quart, which are 18.75" diameter, 17" height. The 122 quart bayou classic kettle measures 21-1/4" diameter, 19" height. I intend to purchase a Blichmann for the mash tun (I'm still throwing around just purchasing the 30 gallon even if I do 10-20 gallon batches for a while, but not sure if that will be too overkill), the 20 gallon one is 17.7" diameter, 20.9" height, while the 30 gallon is 19.7" diameter, 23.6" height. I have to re-measure when I get home later, but I think that the stand should just fit any combination of those kettles, though I may need to make it a little bit wider (I think the stand only comes out to 62" at the moment).

I plan to use BG-14 burners, and heat shields from Derrin unless anyone has any suggestions otherwise? Any feedback on changes to the stand to better fit the burners, recommendations for best ventilation, heat usage, etc would be appreciated

I didn't add them to the diagrams yet, but I have a March pump already, and plan to get another. I may mount them either to the center rail or under the lower front rail, but again, any feedback is appreciated. Especially in regards to any kind of splash shield for them, what material might be best, etc?

I plan to add pilot lights and automation before too long, but haven't really thought that far ahead yet, just been looking through the Brutus 10 plans I have and dreaming at the moment, but again, suggestions are always welcome and appreciated!

I know a welder who bought a little 110V welder off ebay for it's portability for when he goes and does little jobs on location. He said that he only expected it to last 8 months and that was 3 years ago. I think he paid $150 and it works pretty good. I had him weld some stainless pipe together and it had no problem.

Awesome, worth a shot then. Thanks again for all the advice, this project is working out a lot better than I had originally expected. Far more affordable than I was first expecting, and at this rate I should be able to get things running by December or January if I can get everything lined up. I can't find too many local places for the mild steel but any complaints with metalsdepot.com or onlinemetals.com other than, I assume they are overpriced compared to finding local? It looks like metalsdepot.com wants $244.74 shipped for 2x 24' 2x2 11ga, and onlinemetals.com wants $307.68 shipped for 6x 8' (they don't offer larger), which seems a bit much. Any other good resources? I'm going to keep hunting locally but haven't found too many results, but maybe I'm just using the wrong keywords...

• You don't need a 220 welder.
• buy a GOOD welding helmet (not from Harbor Freight!)
• .065 Tube is adequate but .125 is much easier for a novice to weld but almost double the price
• tube height is an important factor often overlooked. 1x2 tube has the same load capabilities as 2x2 when turned on edge
• Use large diameter wheels (4")
• the welder is not the only thing you need to build a stand. There is consumables, chop saw, right angle grinder, sanding discs, grinding discs, clamps, gloves, etc.
• building stands can be fun, but make sure you know what you are getting yourself in to

here's a list of steel suppliers near you: http://www.philadelphiabusinesslist.com/specific/Steel.htm
(tube steel is often listed by dimension and not gauge)

OneHoppyGuy said:

• You don't need a 220 welder.
• buy a GOOD welding helmet (not from Harbor Freight!)
• .065 Tube is adequate but .125 is much easier for a novice to weld but almost double the price
• tube height is an important factor often overlooked. 1x2 tube has the same load capabilities as 2x2 when turned on edge
• Use large diameter wheels (4")
• the welder is not the only thing you need to build a stand. There is consumables, chop saw, right angle grinder, sanding discs, grinding discs, clamps, gloves, etc.
• building stands can be fun, but make sure you know what you are getting yourself in to

here's a list of steel suppliers near you: http://www.philadelphiabusinesslist.com/specific/Steel.htm
(tube steel is often listed by dimension and not gauge)

Click to expand...

Wow thanks! So should I perhaps build the stand using 1x2 tube on edge? or just certain parts of it? I'll keep the wheels in mind, though I'm not positive I'm going to bother putting wheels on it at all, we'll see how annoyed I get when moving it I suppose. I have considered the other tools, etc involved, my buddy says he has everything we'll need for cutting it, etc. but appreciate the reminder
Thanks for the suppliers, not sure how I didn't find that when searching, but I was mostly using Google Maps so that could be part it it. Thanks again!

OneHoppyGuy is right though. You''ll go through a bunch of grinding wheels first learning to weld (make a crappy weld, grind it down and start over). Flap disc's aren't cheap either, but neccesary if looking to make a nice stand. Go on craigslist and look for a mig welder. I've had experience with my father's Lincoln. It was quite nice, and on a rolling card. Keep in mind you'll need argon (if you pick up a shielded mig) and the spool wire. And you'll most likely need an assload of c-clamps. help to keep things square. Good pair of gloves help. The list will go on.

Find a local welding supply company. I'm sure they can tell you where the local steel yard is.

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/tls/2689947226.html

So I've been rethinking my stand a bit and would appreciate any critiquing anyone can offer. The sketchup model is here: http://www.worstbrewing.com/images/brewhouse/30-gallon/

This is showing 30 gallon kettles (bayou classic on either end, blichmann in the middle) on top of the stand which is 16" tall. I'm a little concerned it may be a little short but haven't had issues priming my march pumps at similar heights before, so I just wanted to see if anyone had thoughts on anything else I may have missed. The kettles are a bit big, as shown in the sketches they hang over the edges slightly but I don't think that should be a problem (or is it?). One more thing I'm curious about is how well will the burners vent exhaust in this design? is there anything i can modify to better help that perhaps? or is it a non-issue? Sorry, probably over-thinking this as usual but just trying to finalize the dimensions so I can start buying the steel, etc. Thanks!

are you sold on your march pump? my LG's work pretty good, don't worry about the prime as much. Since you'll be learning to weld on this, I'd go with black pipe for the gas rail. I sure as hell wouldn't be welding up the gas beam my first time out (that is on the Brutus 10 clone plan). YMMV.

Where are you going to put this? This sucker is going to be pretty heavy. I can't remember the user's name (and frankly I'm a bit too lazy at almost midnight), but there is a single tier design in this subforum that had wheels (I think they were pneumatic), and the other end was just the legs with a handle on the end of the tier. Will at least allow you to move it around on your own. I think that would be pretty good to incorporate into the design.

PLEASE!!!! Do not do a gas beam!!! This is not safe!!!
Mig welds are porous. There is no way for the hobby welder to guarantee those welds AND the square tubing is not designed for that purpose.
This is one item we will NOT build for customers.
AS for wheels, you will want them... 4"

And on that large of a scale, I would think you would want to incorporate some type of heavy duty tippy dump. Unless you have a better way of getting grain out of a 30 gal MLT.

Just for the record, sorry if my diagrams appear otherwise but I actually haven't planned out the plumbing for the gas yet and wasn't planning to gas beam. I know a few plumbers who are on board for helping with plumbing with pipe, so I'll most likely go that route anyway. Thanks for the concern though

As for wheels, I'm still debating it a bit, as this will be used in my garage, which is basically being converted to the brewery entirely, so it won't need to move very much, if ever really. The main challenge with the stand is I'm fairly short (5'5") so I want to make sure I'm still able to dough in easily, etc so I'm trying to keep the stand height down where possible.

Regarding tippy dump, I'd love to for the same reasons but feel like that might be a little above my abilities for my first stand. On the flip side, I can only lift so much at a time so I'm planning to use the shop vac method and just suck out 5 gallons at a time, since it'll be easier to transport smaller amounts that way. I'm sure it'll get old eventually, but for now I'm guessing it would be a way to get by at least.

My main reason for wanting to jump to 30 gallon, honestly, is that's the long term goal anyway, so I'm just thinking if I'm going to buy a Blichmann Boilermaker, I may as well buy the one that I'll need last, even if I use it to only make 10-20 gallon batches for a little while. I know, its a bit overkill, but I'm assuming using it for a RIMS setup it shouldn't make a big difference in heat loss, etc. at that size. But, as always, any feedback is appreciated Thanks!

My stand sits taller than yours, but my pots are shorter than yours as well. That said, I also store my pots under the burners on a shelf. My wife has the same height restrictions as you have though! So the top of the stand couldn't be taller than 30", so that once the BK was on top, my wife could see inside without needed to get on a step stool.

That said, do you have any other hobbies? Work on cars? Woodworking? anything else? Obviously it's up to you, but I would think at a minimum you'd want two wheels on this guy. you never know when you're going to need to move it. And while it doesn't look that large now, once you weld up that frame it'll be pretty hefty.

I hear you on the jump to 30 gal, and makes sense. No use in trying to offload other equip later on. I guess you need to figure out how often you're going to be brewing, and what you are going to do with that spent grain. I would think the shop vac route will kill your shop vac pretty quick, not to mention get old pretty quick too. Check with some of the other guys that have large setups (annasdadhockey has a good sized one). See what they do. Might give you some good ideas.

Yeah, that's basically the main issue, I would rather prefer to be able to do everything without a stool or ladder. Perhaps with this design, 30 gallon is something I should put on the "back burner" so to speak, and just stick with 10-20 gallon batches for now.

As for other hobbies, not much that is useful to our garage. I'll see if I can get some dimensions, but my car doesn't even fit, and SWMBO's car fits but you can't comfortably get out of the car unless you're climbing out the window basically. Supposedly the previous owners parked a car in there, but be damned if I can figure out how. As it stands currently, we just store stuff in it but the majority of the space is unused. There's a room in our basement that I was gonna convert to the brewery originally, but its going to be much more of a hassle to do that, so I've decided to make use of the garage. The basement room is actually where I store all of my brewing stuff now, but was intended for use as a small tool room/workshop, so I plan to use that for any other small hobby stuff. I agree, it wouldn't be a bad idea to add wheels so its easier to move if/when I do decide to, but again, I'm trying to figure out how to keep the height down while still making it fairly functional, etc. I guess I could take off the legs below the lower half of the stand and replace those with wheels though, shouldn't change too much.

I do imagine it'll be a pain to remove and dispose of that much grain, especially since I don't have any good place for composting or otherwise. It does make me rethink the 30 gallon idea and perhaps just sticking with 20 gallon. I suppose at that point if I really want more of a certain batch I can always just do back-to-back 15 gallon batches or something.

EDIT: Something else I just considered, slightly unrelated... I was just planning to pick up 3 BG-14 burners, but is a BG-14 gonna be overkill, even for a 20-30 gallon mash tun? Any recommendations instead?

I don't think the BG-14 is overkill at all. I use it on my 15 gal setup.

in terms of wheels. Keep your stand at the same height you have now. On one end, run a solid axle through the legs to attach the wheels to, clip a little of the same legs off so the wheels spin free. Just a thought.

Good to hear. And you don't have any automation on yours right? Have any difficulty controlling mash temp?

As for the wheels, that's a good idea. I'm sure the stand will still be pretty heavy but does make it a little easier to move as needed. I think I'll stick with the most recent design and once I have it fabbed up I'll see how I like the height, etc. It shouldn't be too late to choose either just 2 or all 4 wheels at that point I suppose.

I don't have any automation at the moment. And I don't have any pids or temp probes. Just the brewmometers on the actual pots. It seems to hold just fine. I figure I want to get the basics down before I go to any automation. But at the same time, i kind of like actually having to do "something" at any given point.

Yeah, I know what you mean, it kills the fun if you can just push a button and have beer come out. I'm planning on keeping it pretty manual, aside from potentially hooking up PIDs and such to control the burners eventually, but at the same time, if I can make it work as is, why not? I tend to way over-think everything, so I'm trying to build this project with a more KISS approach in mind, but I still want to make sure I don't end up over or under heating the mash, etc.

Has anyone bought this specific set of BG14 burners: http://www.kegcowboy.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=215

Any thoughts on the deal, am I better off buying separately? Is the regulator good in this setup? I'm planning to pull the trigger on them but figured I'd ask first. Thanks

EDIT: I'm assuming it wouldn't hurt to get the burners and heat shields (any suggestions about those too? http://www.brewershardware.com/12-Heat-Shield-Burner-Mount.html) before finalizing my plans for the stand, specifically where these are going to mount to. And of course, if anyone has any thoughts on mounting, etc, I assume it would be ideal to have something that can allow the burner height to be adjusted, but I doubt I'd need anything too fancy.

worstbrewing said:

Has anyone bought this specific set of BG14 burners: http://www.kegcowboy.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=215

Any thoughts on the deal, am I better off buying separately? Is the regulator good in this setup? I'm planning to pull the trigger on them but figured I'd ask first. Thanks

EDIT: I'm assuming it wouldn't hurt to get the burners and heat shields (any suggestions about those too? http://www.brewershardware.com/12-Heat-Shield-Burner-Mount.html) before finalizing my plans for the stand, specifically where these are going to mount to. And of course, if anyone has any thoughts on mounting, etc, I assume it would be ideal to have something that can allow the burner height to be adjusted, but I doubt I'd need anything too fancy.

Click to expand...

I haven't checked lately, but agrisupply used to have them for the best price. Tractor Supply was close, or better, especially if one was local. ~$35 per burner is what I remember. Regs are $10-$30 depending on what you want. No homebrew-centric supplier will be the cheapest, but may have some of the details worked out. Sometimes worked out incorrectly, though.

You should be able to make your own burner heat shield.
The burner mounts, and shield, need to be adjustable, generally. Especially for a one-off.

Have you checked out the other threads on these builds? There is plenty of good info out there, here and on other forums. There are threads more specific to your questions, like regulators, welders, burner spacing & mounts, and will have more expert input. Also, "finalizing" your design before you have the components is difficult. Gathering all the components, and settling on a basic design is enough until you get everything in hand. Things pop up as you go. This is the advantage to DIY over having a shop do it off a spec. Like all DIY stuff, the extra trips to the store to get small parts is where a lot of time gets wasted. Buy extra, and visit a scrap yard for some random sizes that can come in handy.

RE: 220V MIG welders. You don't need the power they have. A 90-125 amp 110V welder will weld the stand, and more. I recommended 220V cheap portable welders because they usually have a better chance of having infinitely variable voltage, which makes welding thin stuff easier. They also are more versatile in that they can weld thick stuff if you need to.

As to the gas, someone said they use argon, and I said they use CO2. We were both wrong, and right. For steel, you can get away with straight CO2, or argon, but typically an 80/20 Argon/CO2 blend is used, especially for thin stuff. I learned mostly on TIG and aluminum, and was going off memory from a MIG project that used pure CO2. I wonder if that 80/20 blend could be used as "beer gas" for a nitro tap? I think the partial pressure from the argon would be too high, though.

The BrewersHardware burner mounts you referred to are stainless and you would need a way to mount them. The mounts are not welded together so you you will need to find a way to close the gap (maybe a shop can TIG or spot weld them for you).
I would go the route CWI is suggesting and make my own.
Here is but one of many ways you can do it:

Awesome, thanks! I'm not sure why, but I had been under the impression the other parts were hard to source so I was gonna just go with a kit, but after some searching I've come up with the following:
3x BG-14 High Pressure Cast Iron Burner
1x High Pressure Adjustable Regulator/Valve, 30psi
1x 1/4" High Pressure Hose Assembly, 1/4" MPT X 3/8"

Any thoughts on not going with any of those? From my research it seems pretty much what others use. Beyond that, I still will need a manifold, so I'm probably just going to see what Home Depot has to offer for pipe, but one thing I haven't quite seen answered is regarding needle valve vs ball valve. I've seen some setups with both, and some that appear to only use one or the other. I guess my main question is, will either suffice by itself, or is it best to use both? Any preference on one over the other? From what I've found, it sounds like the BG-14 uses a 1/4" orifice, so I was leaning towards this needle valve unless anyone suggests otherwise. I assume if I should use both a needle and ball valve, just stick with the same size there too. I'll post some update sketches of the rig soon, but I'm also planning to have the burner arms face the front of the rig so all the plumbing is easily accessible, but again if there's any reason that might be a bad idea please let me know.

As for the heat shield, since I'll be doing this in my garage, how necessary will they actually be anyway? Will they help keep heat in, or just wind from blowing it out?

And regarding the MIG welder, you mentioned using gas, but maybe I don't understand welding enough. This one claims to not need a shielding gas, so would it be good to use as-is? http://www.harborfreight.com/welding/mig-flux-welders/90-amp-flux-wire-welder-98871.html

Thanks, sorry for jumping all over the place with the questions but as things start coming together more I'm just getting a little too excited to build this thing :cross: Unless there are any reasons not to order the parts listed above, I'll probably start by ordering them soon, and I found a place for the steel. Not super close to me, but my buddy lives about an hour from me and has a place near him that will source 48' of 2"x2" 1/8" thick mild steel for $160 which is the best I've found so far (and I'm just estimating on the 48', last I checked it was 40' but wanna make sure we have room for error).

Ok, here's the deal (hard to imagine these guys haven't changed the site).

Email these guys: http://www.unbeatablesale.com/

They have the BG-14's for $59. Send them the link to the Agri supply site. They will match the price of Agri Supply. This is what I did. Reason? Agri will charge you another 10-15 per burner for shipping. Unbeatable charges you 10-15 total for all three. Save yourself even more money.

I bought my 0-40 psi High flow regulator (with hose) for 30 bucks from kegcowboy.

In terms of your steel, how are you getting it back to your place? I'm assuming you'll be building this at your place as well, otherwise think of how you'll get the finished product back to your place.

In terms of the heat shield, I'd definitely put one in. You never know when your application will change. I can't tell you how many times I've uttered "I'll never do that" only to end up doing it.

Sweet, thanks! I assume you mean this regulator?

My buddy has a van, and from my measurements, with seats out, etc we should be able to fit either the steel pieces or the whole rig in, but most likely we'll be doing this at my place anyway.

As for the heat shield, is there any particular metal that you might recommend? I've only found a few threads that seem to touch on what metal they used, but some of those seem to have mixed results so I don't know if there's any specific metal, best place to get said metal, design considerations for best exhaust flow, etc. Unlike keggles, these kettles will pretty much cover the entire span of the burners, so I assume its something that needs considered.