How to: plastic soda bottle conditioning testers?

So, I've been sifting through all the forums and am still not 100% certain what to do and how to interpret it. The two strats seem to be 1) fill soda bottle with bottling wand, squeeze out the air space and cap, versus 2) fill soda bottle with bottling wand and cap it with the air space still inside.

My guess is that both methods work, but that #1 would take longer to "inflate" than #2. Which is a better or safer match to what is happening in the glass bottles?

Thanks for any extra information!

Either way all you're going to be able to tell is that "something" is happening and perhaps keep the paranoia under control for a couple weeks till you can "test" a bottle by pouring it in a glass.... I usually use method #2 you mentioned, and simply check that it is getting firmer as time goes on. Once they're bottled, theres nothing to do but wait anyway, this just makes waiting a little more bearable.

(EDIT) - woops, didn't notice this was in the Cider Forum... If your referring to back sweetened bottles, needing an indicator on when to pasteurize etc, please wait for someone more knowledgeable than I on the subject to comment...... I'd hate to be responsible for a cider bottle bombing!

Your glass bottles have a headspace, right?
Wouldn't it make sense to let the soda bottle replicate it in anyway? I can understand the fears of oxidation, as plastic is permeable to oxygen, but squeezing the headspace out would hardly change that (from my own understand, someone please correct me if I am wrong).

Anywho, for my last batch of semi-sweet cider I used a plastic tester with headspace. As soon as it felt like a basketball and I saw noticeable bubbles at the top of the bottle I cracked one open to check. Pretty good. Waited a few more days then pasteurized. Everything went fine, no bottle bombs or anything.

I bottle in 1L PET bottles for shipping. O2 permeation through plastic is the least of my worries.

It's not a very quick process. Unless you're bottling with a counter-pressure device, you're likely bottling more O2 in the headspace than will ever enter through the plastic sides.

To be clear, I'm not looking to instigate flame wars between the different ways of doing it, just wanting a clear practical picture on how to tell for method 1/2 its ready based on criteria X/Y..

CiderRules said:

Your glass bottles have a headspace, right?
Wouldn't it make sense to let the soda bottle replicate it in anyway? I can understand the fears of oxidation, as plastic is permeable to oxygen, but squeezing the headspace out would hardly change that (from my own understand, someone please correct me if I am wrong).

Click to expand...

Agreed, leave the headspace to be more like the glass bottles you are tracking.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about oxygen penetrating through the plastic. The cider won't be in there long enough (my plastic squeeze bottle gets drunk while the glass bottles pasteurize), and as mentioned above, the headspace will be the main driving force of oxidation. In Europe, there are commercial ciders bottled in plastic which taste fine.

YeastHerder said:

To be clear, I'm not looking to instigate flame wars between the different ways of doing it, just wanting a clear practical picture on how to tell for method 1/2 its ready based on criteria X/Y..

Click to expand...

Again, no expert at backsweetening, but the process of using a PET bottle to tell if you are getting carbonation should still be the same as what I use for a standard bottle conditioned beer....Only an indicator and not a precise anything. Unless someone here has a different opinion, Id still say to wait till the bottle is pushed back to shape (in method 1) or bottle is firm (in method 2) and simply try one before pasteurizing. Using method 2, leaving the head space, you should be able to use your PET bottle as your first test sample so you're not burning one of your glass bottles. Using method 1, its not likely to give a good representation of actual conditions since the internal pressure is not going to be the same as in the glass bottles. Remember to chill the sample before trying it to make sure the C02 has a chance to dissolve in solution.

I can confirm that CiderRules is correct -in my experience.

Thanks all!

I am still confused here: Is, or why is carbonating cider in a bottle different than carbonating beer in a bottle? Wouldn't they both work the same? Let's say I have a batch of cider, and the the gravity has been steady for three days, why wouldn't I add the appropriate amount of priming sugar just like it was beer? Please advise.

MindenMan said:

I am still confused here: Is, or why is carbonating cider in a bottle different than carbonating beer in a bottle? Wouldn't they both work the same? Let's say I have a batch of cider, and the the gravity has been steady for three days, why wouldn't I add the appropriate amount of priming sugar just like it was beer? Please advise.

Click to expand...

If fermentation is complete, there is no difference than when carbonating beer. Its when those who like a sweeter cider bottle before fermentation is complete, that fermentation needs to be stopped when the desired carbonation level is reached so the bottles don't continue to ferment, produce carbon dioxide and explode.

Fossey said:

If fermentation is complete, there is no difference than when carbonating beer. Its when those who like a sweeter cider bottle before fermentation is complete, that fermentation needs to be stopped when the desired carbonation level is reached so the bottles don't continue to ferment, produce carbon dioxide and explode.

Click to expand...

And just to expand for clarification...when fossey says "...that fermentation needs to be stopped..." They are referring to stove stop pasteurization to kill off the yeast in the glass beer bottles designed to hold pressure.

Thank you for clarifying that, I will definitely remember that when it comes times to bottle. So, to ask one more question ( or two) does a sweeter cider age better/smoother than a cider that is dryer at the time fermentation ceases, or, does a dry cider that doesn't have a "lot" of flavor at bottling, does the flavor seem to get stronger, if that is the right question? Or, does a cider that was bottled a bit sweeter develop more flavor? I made an apricot ale last summer that didn't have a lot of flavor at bottling, but as time has gone on, the flavor is more pronounced. Well, at least a little...