RetroHopper
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IPA is by definition PALE. Shouldn't we come up with a better name? Any ideas?
Why do we call it "Black" IPA?
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I like American Dark Ale.
I absolutely adore the beer. Roasty, but not charred, hoppy as hell, with a nice malty backbone. Thinking of doing one with some smoked malt in the spring.
I absolutely adore the beer. Roasty, but not charred, hoppy as hell, with a nice malty backbone. Thinking of doing one with some smoked malt in the spring.
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RetroHopper
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I like "American Dark Ale". Good call.
tgmartin000
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I think there's a new category for american black ale. As opposed to cascadian dark ale. Huge difference. Like the difference between a belgian golden strong ale and a tripel.
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JohnGonk
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Whatever you call it, still one of my favorite styles! Definitely some good ones out there.
Yup. IBA. Easy Peasy.
I'm most partial to this too. I really don't like CDA as I find it disrespectful to the true originator(s) of the style. The GABF/Brewers Association seems to agree, and have formally designated the style as IBA. I imagine if the BJCP follows suit and adopts guidelines for the style, that they'll either go with IBA, or even possible American Dark Ale - CDA is just too controversial, for the reasons I've mentioned, which are also why I disagree with it as well.
Have they? Good to know. It makes the most sense.
I can understand, to a point, why "Black IPA" was used as they style was experimented with, as it's supposed to be like an IPA in most every was, except in color and a slight amount of roast character, as it communicates an idea well enough. But at some point, I think we have to agree that a name that's oxymoronic by its very nature is moronic to continue using (OK, that's harsh, but I was too tempted by the fun constuction of that quip). Besides, there's a close enough relation between "IPA" and "IBA," in the names themselves, that it communicates the nature of the style well enough, especially now that it's more established.
Neither is there anything Indian about IPAs, but at least it's understood as a style.
Sure there is...they derive their name from the fact that it was a style of beer exported to the English colonies in India. If these beers had not been so popular there, they never would have been named IPA - they would have stayed pale ales or maybe Burton ales.
OK then. So IBAs are extremely similar to a style of beer (one could say it's just a tweaked form of the original) that was once exported to India, hence it has a relation to India, nearly as much as the original.
I get the feeling that might not be convincing to you, but I'm throwing it out anyway. I suspect my gut feeling that these are not meaningfully less "Indian" than IPAs has to do with me not really thinking of them as forming a real style in their own right, and rather as a variation on an IPA. Maybe I just need to get over that. Who knows?
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English IPA's yes. American IPA's no! Yet we still call them both IPA's
Why would you except and American interpretations of an IPA that has nothing to do with India, but turn down the idea of an India Black Ale?
edit:
The India reference has more to do with alcohol and hop content, not color or maltyness.
By that logic, what is wrong with calling a dark/black interpretation of the style a Dark/Black IPA?
My point is that most of the names out there for this style, except American Dark Ale or the like, don't make a tremendous amount of sense. Black IPA or IBA are equally nonsensical in my book, so why not come up with something that makes more sense?
I hear you. I agree many, perhaps most, style names don't make a lot of sense, or aren't terribly descriptive of what you get. I think the attractiveness of something like IBA is that is continues in the tradition of something that is established. No, it's not "Indian," whatever that might mean in the context of an American brewed beer, but the name tells you a bit about what to expect. American Dark Ale doesn't really tell me much, other than it likely uses an American yeast, and perhaps malt and hops also, and that it's dark. Not very descriptive. So how is that different from an American stout, porter, darker barley wine, "Scotch" or any number of other dark ales? What helps someone to figure out what to expect, based off the name?
How about "American Ale in the style of an English IPA but darker and maybe just a little roasty with less yeast character"?
AAITSOAEIPABDAMJALRWLYC
Fixed that for you. It's perfect, and easy to remember. I vote yes on this one.
What is the difference?
ALL the great black IPAs I've had have been of UK origin. For that reason, the only pony I could cheer in this race is India Black Ale... but I'm still going to call 'em Black IPAs.
tgmartin000
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The Cascadian dark ale has some roast, while the American black ale is an ipa that's black, no roast.
nutty_gnome
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American Dark Ale is the only appropriate name for the style.
It isn't appropriate to name a beer that has roots in the American SW, NE, and NW after one region. If you call it Cascadian, you may as well call it Hill-Country-Green-Moutain-Cascadian Pale Ale... and then you still look dumb for calling it a pale ale. That is why it needs to be American Dark Ale.
Also it is well past time to cut ties with our ancient oppressors (the pernicious Brits) and claim ADA as uniquely American. Get rid of the India nonsense already!
It isn't appropriate to name a beer that has roots in the American SW, NE, and NW after one region. If you call it Cascadian, you may as well call it Hill-Country-Green-Moutain-Cascadian Pale Ale... and then you still look dumb for calling it a pale ale. That is why it needs to be American Dark Ale.
Also it is well past time to cut ties with our ancient oppressors (the pernicious Brits) and claim ADA as uniquely American. Get rid of the India nonsense already!
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I see two choices . . .
First choice:
Take American IPA out of Category 14
Move it to Category 10, American Ale
Rename it 10D Double American Pale Ale (Double APA)
Add "Black IPA" as 10E Double American Black Ale (Double ABA)
Move English IPA and Imperial IPA into Category 19, Strong Ales
Second choice:
Rename Category 14 to India Style Ales
Put "Black IPA" into it as 14D India Black Ale (IBA)
. . . Either one works for me,
but I lean toward the simplicity of number two.
First choice:
Take American IPA out of Category 14
Move it to Category 10, American Ale
Rename it 10D Double American Pale Ale (Double APA)
Add "Black IPA" as 10E Double American Black Ale (Double ABA)
Move English IPA and Imperial IPA into Category 19, Strong Ales
Second choice:
Rename Category 14 to India Style Ales
Put "Black IPA" into it as 14D India Black Ale (IBA)
. . . Either one works for me,
but I lean toward the simplicity of number two.
I think Black IPA is fine. I don't mind a little oxymoron.
Or American Black Ale.
Anything but Cascadian Dark Ale.
Or American Black Ale.
Anything but Cascadian Dark Ale.
TyTanium
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Betcha "Black IPA" sells better than "American Dark Ale"
It's an IPA that's black. Pretty simple. What the heck is an American Dark Ale? Not knocking the name, it's arguably a better one, but, at least currently, way too vague for my liking.
It's an IPA that's black. Pretty simple. What the heck is an American Dark Ale? Not knocking the name, it's arguably a better one, but, at least currently, way too vague for my liking.
Because of all this Black IPA talk, I'm gonna brew me one on Monday. I do it about 3 times a year and love it. Men in Black IPA thanks to tknice (who I've not seen on this forum in a long time).
nutty_gnome
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Marketing people will call it whatever they think sells better.... it is irrelevant. For those in the know, American Dark Ale is where its at. :rockin:
invivoSaccharomyces
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I'd rather call it a Dunkelhop.
Thanks, but I am confused - isn't roasting the only way to turn malt black?
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They're the same thing with a different name. Both have some roast character.
You can use Sinamar to color your beer dark with very little roasted flavor,
but whatever you want to call the beer, without some roast it's not what the style calls for.
From Brewers Association:
Whether the BJCP copies the BA on the style guideline is yet to be seen. However, we used the BA guildelines when judging Black IPAs last year. Many were too roasty.
That said, they were usually very tasty too!
That said, they were usually very tasty too!
tgmartin000
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Good point! I'm speaking of roast flavor. Yes, they both have roasted malt, but the cda has roast flavor while the American dark ale does not. For instance, my black ipa, which I consider a dark ale, has 4 oz carafa III and also midnight wheat, for little to no roast flavor.
hirambiram
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Sublimely self righteous is my favorite of this style. Cascadian Black ale, Black IPA, IBA? Who cares? It tates too good to be concerned about the semantics of the style name.
hirambiram said:
+1 on sublimely
Also love me some Wookey Jack
hirambiram
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American stout, robust porter, IBA, blah blah blah......Ect Ect.....get in ma belly.
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