Belgian Dark Strong Ale The Pious - Westvleteren 12 style quad - multiple

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
TriggerFingers said:
thanks bottlebomber,

so are you thinking EKG or Fuggles for 1 addition or 2 separate additions?

Well, the Northern Brewer is used here as a bittering hop, the other hop additions are listed in the recipe. You have EKG that will easily sub in for the styrian goldings, as far as the hersbrucker you'll have to use what you can and cal it good. Just don't use any American hop varieties. I personally used saaz for my finishing hops because I love that hop and because I wasn't concerned on getting a perfect clone. You just want to be sure that you're getting the right IBUs, because that is important.
 
Brewed the csi 17x on Saturday and pitched starter Sunday am. Woke up this morning to a krausen-filled airlock just before blow off. Put a blow off tube in - very vigorous at the moment
 
Brewed the old world. Day 10 of ferment. Started too cool. Tastes too clean. Moved the carboy to our compressor room. Yeasty goodness popped out the next day. Excellent.

Question about 17x. There are no gallons listed. What should I use.
Also, do you mash out then fly sparge, or can I sparge and skip mash?
Thanks for your help.
 
The critical period for yeast-produced flavors is the first 72 hours. By day 10 there's little if any fermentables left and the yeast aren't doing much. Later in the fermentation higher temperatures would mostly help with attenuation.
 
traumerei1838 said:
Brewed the old world. Day 10 of ferment. Started too cool. Tastes too clean. Moved the carboy to our compressor room. Yeasty goodness popped out the next day. Excellent.
You're imagining things. Yeast-driven flavor profile is pretty much locked in by 72-96hrs.
 
Mash-out at 168-170F increases fermentability (increase activity of alpha-amylase), conversion efficiency (breakdown of remaining starch), lauter efficiency (less viscous wort), and locks in profile of fermentables (increased rate of denaturation of enzymes). You don't have to do it, but I'd recommend being consistent in your choice.
 
I brewed the 17x last Saturday and fg around 1.018. Fg not dropping but top of wort looks as follows;



image-1761958044.jpg

Is this possibly infected?
 
hbr2547 said:
I brewed the 17x last Saturday and fg around 1.018. Fg not dropping but top of wort looks as follows;

Is this possibly infected?

To add a bit more clarity, foam is soapy like and like a film (took gravity reading and like piercing plastic wrap). I tasted the wort and doesn't taste bad. Should I crash chill at 35 for a few days, rack and rep itch yeast to try at bring down from 1.018 to 1.012?
 
orangehero said:
Mash-out at 168-170F increases fermentability (increase activity of alpha-amylase), conversion efficiency (breakdown of remaining starch), lauter efficiency (less viscous wort), and locks in profile of fermentables (increased rate of denaturation of enzymes). You don't have to do it, but I'd recommend being consistent in your choice.

I don't think 170 mash out has an impact on anything but viscosity in the mash tun. At 170, amylases are inactivated. All the starch conversion happens during the mash. You don't have to mash out at 170 but it does help move sugars along into your boiler and gives you a few degrees head start on getting to boiling in the next step.
 
hbr2547 said:
To add a bit more clarity, foam is soapy like and like a film (took gravity reading and like piercing plastic wrap). I tasted the wort and doesn't taste bad. Should I crash chill at 35 for a few days, rack and rep itch yeast to try at bring down from 1.018 to 1.012?

Doesn't look infected. This strain takes as long to get the last few gravity points as it took to get the 1st 80%. There's no need to add fresh yeast

DO NOT crash cool it. Keep it in the upper 70's for another week. If you did everything else right, you should hit 1.012-1.013 with no problem.
 
That's not how amylase enzymes work. Denaturation doesn't happen instantly. As temperature increases, both the rate of reaction and rate of denaturation increase. Although beta-amylase is more heat labile and becomes mostly inactivated at 168-170F, alpha-amylase still has significant activity.
 
orangehero said:
That's not how amylase enzymes work. Denaturation doesn't happen instantly. As temperature increases, both the rate of reaction and rate of denaturation increase. Although beta-amylase is more heat labile and becomes mostly inactivated at 168-170F, alpha-amylase still has significant activity.

This is the first time I have read that increasing mash out temperature is done to increase starch conversion. Do you have any links you can share to help me learn more about this?
 
g-star said:
Doesn't look infected. This strain takes as long to get the last few gravity points as it took to get the 1st 80%. There's no need to add fresh yeast

DO NOT crash cool it. Keep it in the upper 70's for another week. If you did everything else right, you should hit 1.012-1.013 with no problem.

Gstar you are a savior...just checked and fermented down to 1.013 no more krausen (OG 1.094). Will rack off yeast tomorrow and lager for 12 weeks...

Cheers!!!
 
hbr2547 said:
Gstar you are a savior...just checked and fermented down to 1.013 no more krausen (OG 1.094). Will rack off yeast tomorrow and lager for 12 weeks...

Cheers!!!

Great to hear. A finicky strain, but it will perform like a champ if you treat it right.
 
I just tasted my uncarbonated 12 that has been layering for 6 weeks now. Man, this is really unbelievable. I have a locally sourced brett that I will be adding to half of the bottles to see what kind of character I end up with. This is going to be awesome over the years.
 
lunshbox said:
I just tasted my uncarbonated 12 that has been layering for 6 weeks now. Man, this is really unbelievable. I have a locally sourced brett that I will be adding to half of the bottles to see what kind of character I end up with. This is going to be awesome over the years.

iPhone giveaway lol.. Really Steve, lagering is a real word.
 
Hey everyone,

Been reading this thread quite a bit and am going to be ordering the ingredients for the 017x.

Anyway, I have searched the thread but didn't find much about this. The 017x recipe calls for 30g/gal of candi sugar for bottle conditioning. Has anyone used corn sugar and if so, with what results? If my math is right, 5oz or corn sugar should put me right at about the same addition of sugar in a 5 gallon batch as 150g of candi sugar.

1.0104 for candi and 1.0105 for corn sugar.

Thanks for the help and I look forward to seeing more people's results as they brew this great recipe.
 
I pitched to hot, and as G-star said, it is plagued by phenols. I'll let it age for a while, but I have low expectations at this point. Can't wait to try again though
 
Hey everyone,

Been reading this thread quite a bit and am going to be ordering the ingredients for the 017x.

Anyway, I have searched the thread but didn't find much about this. The 017x recipe calls for 30g/gal of candi sugar for bottle conditioning. Has anyone used corn sugar and if so, with what results? If my math is right, 5oz or corn sugar should put me right at about the same addition of sugar in a 5 gallon batch as 150g of candi sugar.

1.0104 for candi and 1.0105 for corn sugar.

Thanks for the help and I look forward to seeing more people's results as they brew this great recipe.

Priming with corn sugar would be 30 grams/gallon candi sugar * (32 pppg candi sugar/46 pppg corn sugar). It's about 21 grams per gallon using corn sugar. That's about the same as 2.2 vol CO2.
 
DSmith said:
Priming with corn sugar would be 30 grams/gallon candi sugar * (32 pppg candi sugar/46 pppg corn sugar). It's about 21 grams per gallon using corn sugar. That's about the same as 2.2 vol CO2.

Ah. Ok. I read that corn sugar was 34 pppg.
 
Hey everyone,

Been reading this thread quite a bit and am going to be ordering the ingredients for the 017x.

Anyway, I have searched the thread but didn't find much about this. The 017x recipe calls for 30g/gal of candi sugar for bottle conditioning. Has anyone used corn sugar and if so, with what results? If my math is right, 5oz or corn sugar should put me right at about the same addition of sugar in a 5 gallon batch as 150g of candi sugar.

1.0104 for candi and 1.0105 for corn sugar.

Thanks for the help and I look forward to seeing more people's results as they brew this great recipe.

I am trying to figure out the same thing. I've read dextrose is 36ppg, not 46 though.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/gravity-priming-sugar-113941/

What carb levels are people aiming for? 2.2ish?

Also, if the beer is sitting at 45 degrees right now, is that the temp I plug into a carb calculator or 68 that it sat at for a few weeks after fermenting?

Going to bottle tonight...responses greatly appreciated.
 
So to follow up on my own post:
Calculate temperature for bottling based on the highest temperature.
CSI used 30 grams/gallon.
Calculating that for dextrose:
30 grams/gallon candi sugar * (32 pppg candi sugar/36 pppg corn sugar)= 26.6
26.6 x 5g = 133.3g
133.3g = 4.7 oz dextrose
= 2.53 volumes CO2

Is this about right?
 
My results from a competition that took first place in Belgian Strong Ales with a 40

This beer was submitted 4 months from brew day.

Judge 1 was certified. Judge 2 was recognized.

Aroma:
Judge 1: Pepper sweet malt. Could use more nose. This is supposed to be "compley malt sweetness" whereas that, in this, is soft and places round fruit, hint of plum way back. (Handwriting was poor, tried as best I could). 7/12
Judge 2" Esters, phenols with much carmel soft alcohol, raisin/plum 10/12

Appearance:
Judge 1: Mostly clear, almost 40 srm. Too dark for style, book says up to 22. 2/3
Judge 2: Deep coppery. Nice tan head. Clear. 3/3

Flavor:
Judge 1: Nice raisiny, moderately malty on the tonge and roof of mouth. Belgian abbey yeast sense but not over bearing. Lightly bitter. Flavors blend very well. It is complex as required. 18/20
Judge 2: Complex blend of malt with esters, phenols. Sweet up front finishing semi sweet. Alcohol in taste, not hot. 16/20

Mouthfeel:
Judge 1: Not highly carbonated in mouthfeel. Some ABV warmth. Balanced. Tad of W/ malt nice but yeast funk that belgian Abbey yeast snense aromatic (bad hand writing, again). 4/5
Judge 2: Medium body & carbonation. No astringency. 5/5

Overall Impression:
Judge 1: Reminds me, just a little, of Omegang. This has most of what is needed, though there are some balance issues:slight. I would recommend this beer to anyone though, very tasty.8/10
Judge 2: Very good beer to style. Will get better with age. 7/10

Judge 1: 39/50
Judge 2: 41/50

I used Sac's Traditional double decoction recipe. Mash temp was 1 degree low on the first decoction and 3 degrees low on the second. Pitched 2 days after brew day with a 6 liter starter (no stir plate). Fermentation got up to 79* and it finished at 1.011. Bottle conditioned using 1/2 pack of US 05 and priming sugar. Candi sugar was half CSI's and half homemade.
 
So to follow up on my own post:
Calculate temperature for bottling based on the highest temperature.
CSI used 30 grams/gallon.
Calculating that for dextrose:
30 grams/gallon candi sugar * (32 pppg candi sugar/36 pppg corn sugar)= 26.6
26.6 x 5g = 133.3g
133.3g = 4.7 oz dextrose
= 2.53 volumes CO2

Is this about right?

I've never questioned ProMash's database showing corn sugar at 46 pppg but it looks like there's data to support 36 pppg. I've converted a Dubbel recipe 3 weeks ago that called for candi sugar for priming to corn sugar (using the 32 pppg/46 pppg ratio) and the carbonation seems fine. If corn sugar is really 36 pppg then I guess it's slightly underprimed.

EDIT:
What's very interesting is that CO2 calculators give the same results for corn sugar but different results for sucrose - and sucrose is probably well accepted to be 46 pppg. I've compared the following:
ProMash CO2 built-in calculator
http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/brew/widgets/bp.html
http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/
 
Looking for feedback ...

I have room in my kegorator for three cornies and no place to store a finished beer under 75 degrees (ambient temp in a closet).

One Westy is in the kegerator and I have the grains, hops, and yeast to brew another.

Since I cannot "lager" it less than 75 degrees, would it be detrimental if I stored it in the closet, kegged of course, at room temperature for a few months?

While it won't get hot, it will not go below 70 something in the dark recesses of our walk-in closet.

Your thoughts?
 
Brewed 5.5 gal yesterday. Hit OG of 1.091. Set up blow off tube and fermenter into a large plastic container. This morning I find a good layer of liquid on the bottom of big container and wort running down the side of the fermenter. Good thing I didn't leave bucket sitting on carpeted basaement floor.
 
ultravista said:
Looking for feedback ...

I have room in my kegorator for three cornies and no place to store a finished beer under 75 degrees (ambient temp in a closet).

One Westy is in the kegerator and I have the grains, hops, and yeast to brew another.

Since I cannot "lager" it less than 75 degrees, would it be detrimental if I stored it in the closet, kegged of course, at room temperature for a few months?

While it won't get hot, it will not go below 70 something in the dark recesses of our walk-in closet.

Your thoughts?

Once fermentation is completely finished, I don't feel aging in low 70's will affect the flavor. I do that a lot for my big beers that need more time and run out of space in the fermentor.
 
I made sac's new world recipe. It has been in secondary now for ~3 months and hasn't budged past 1.022 (from 1.100). I would like to bottle in the next few weeks but not quite sure the best approach. I am not sure if the FG is high because my slightly higher mash temp or if the yeast is just pooped out and there are fermentables left in there. Should I:

Make a fresh starter of abbey yeast and repitch with corn sugar for ~3vols
Rehydrate EC-118 and pitch with less corn sugar, or maybe no sugar
Keg and force carb

TIA for your thoughts, this thread is great.
 
For those in the know, is there any reason that you can think of that would cause this not to carbonate after priming and re-pitching with 1/2 sachet of US-05?

I have tested 2 bottles in the last 18 days and it seems to be going nowhere.

My alcohol on the old world version I brewed in January came in at damn near 12% but I've heard many reports that US-05 is very alcohol tolerant so I'm pretty sure it should have carbed by now.
 
US-05 is used to make some strong barleywines. IMO the more alcohol using US-05 the more a sort of astringent flavor asserts itself in US-05 beers (just my opinion.) Maybe it will just take more time than 18 days - not usual for this to be the case. In this case, you gave the new dry yeast a little new sugar but probably little else plus a 12% wall of alcohol to climb. I bet in another 2 weeks you will see some progress.
 
Brewed the Traditional on Saturday with just a couple of minor differences. 2 lbs of D180 and 1 lb of D90 all added at flameout. Only 73% efficiency, but that was decent for the largest grain bill I've had in my BIAB setup. Added just a tad of DME to make up for the efficiency loss and hit my numbers to 1.090.

Pitched alot of yeast from a previous batch @ 63F. It rose to 66F on an active first day. Rose to 70F for day 2. I just moved it out of my basement today so it can start to climb north of 75F. I'll try to hold it in the upper 70's for the next few days until the activity starts to die down. I'm excited!
 
I didn't read this entire thread, but it looks very similar (though not identical) to the recipe on Candi Syrup Inc's Recipes. I am planning on doing this one tomorrow and am referencing your recipe as well.

Running my starter tonight -- probably about 1.5L w/ a pitch each of the WY3787 and WLP530 -- since I have both and they're both a few months old.
 
malweth said:
I didn't read this entire thread, but it looks very similar (though not identical) to the recipe on Candi Syrup Inc's Recipes. I am planning on doing this one tomorrow and am referencing your recipe as well.

Running my starter tonight -- probably about 1.5L w/ a pitch each of the WY3787 and WLP530 -- since I have both and they're both a few months old.

The guy from Candi Syrup Inc is CSI in this forum. He has done a lot of R&D on this recipe and the recipe on their web site seems to be what people are using, along with Saq's old world recipe.
 
After reading the CSI recipes, both their Duvel and Westy12 recipes recommend racking off primary between 6-7 days and crashing to ~ 50-60F for .5-1 week. Then racking again and cooling further.

Is racking to tertiary necessary, or could I just rack to secondary and step the temps as designed? The time in tertiary is not excessive (no autolysis concerns usually anyway). Is the extra racking just for clearing? I'd like to limit any chances of oxidizing either of these beauties.

Great of CSI to share their experiences/recipes by the way. Keep up the great work!
 
When the yeast are done, the yeast are done. Some suggest that the byproducts are cleared within 3 days of terminal gravity. That is why commercial breweries wait that three days. Yooper says she can detect a negative correlation if you leave beer on yeast after that. I raise the temps of my beers at the end to make sure the maturation process is complete and when I crash, I CRASH to around 32F to get the yeast and other compounds do drop. Time will drop them but it occurs quicker at colder temps. The limiting factor is particle size. The cold temps is supposed to encourage clumping of 'all the bad stuff' because the smaller particles can take months at room termperature if they don't clump just based on the physics. Or so I've read. ;)
 
After reading the CSI recipes, both their Duvel and Westy12 recipes recommend racking off primary between 6-7 days and crashing to ~ 50-60F for .5-1 week. Then racking again and cooling further.

Is racking to tertiary necessary, or could I just rack to secondary and step the temps as designed? The time in tertiary is not excessive (no autolysis concerns usually anyway). Is the extra racking just for clearing? I'd like to limit any chances of oxidizing either of these beauties.

Great of CSI to share their experiences/recipes by the way. Keep up the great work!

Not strictly necessary. *However* we have found that clearing the ale slowly (50-55F) adds a subtlety to the profile not otherwise achievable.
 
Back
Top