First Batch Question - Full Boil

Hello all,

I will finally have all of my equipment rounded up by this weekend and I am looking to being my adventure with an extract kit, Northern Brewer: The Inkeeper. The instructions call for steeping the specialty grains in 2.5 gallons of water, 20 min @170F. After they want to begin the boil.

If I want to do a full boil (finished wort @ 5gal) can I just calculate the preboil volume for the grain bill and LME/DME in beersmith? I think I would have a ton of boil off in a 10gallon kettle. Or should I steep the grains in 2.5 gallons, add more water then boil?

Also, when they talk about bottle conditioning, can I just keg condition? I own everything I need to fully temperature control this process, so it should not be an issue.

For reference I am using a 10 gallon Spike Brewing Kettle and an outdoor Blichmann burner.

I am a newbie and can't answer your question but you should double check that steeping temperature, as I understand it at 170F the grain husks will release tannins giving your beer off flavors.

Honestly, if this is your first batch, follow the instructions. Learn the basic process before you try to branch out so you understand what those steps mean and what you are doing when you steep, boil, cool, and whatnot throughout the process of brewing. You could do a full boil, but doing a full boil using a recipe not designed for a full boil will result in some different flavors. Your hops will be utilized differently if you use the amount in the recipe. Really, for your first batch I'd stick to the instructions.

As for keg conditioning, yes you can condition in the keg, I have a keg setup and do it all the time. I let the beer ferment for 1-2 months in the primary, transfer to the keg and pressurize it at serving pressure for about a week and then the beer is ready to drink.

The first thing I would suggest is to find out exactly how much boil off you will have. Fill your kettle with 7 gallons of water. Boil it for an hour. Measure how much is left. Then you can figure out your rate of evaporation and plug that number into BeerSmith.

I suggest using the entire volume of water that you plan to boil to soak your grains in. Once the grains are removed and you reach a boil, turn off the heat source and slowly start to add your LME/DME while stiring it in. Be careful. You will get a lot of foaming and the wort will try to climb out of the pot.

Once all the LME/DME is added, bring it back to a boil. You may want to consider some Fermcap or similar anti-foam agent to reduce the chance of boil overs.

You will get a reaction from the boiling wort for each addition of hops. Pay attention.

You can keg condition in bulk. You can also carbonate in the keg with CO2. Good luck

menerdari said:

I am a newbie and can't answer your question but you should double check that steeping temperature, as I understand it at 170F the grain husks will release tannins giving your beer off flavors.

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OP, he is right. If you read the instructions its steep for 20 minutes or UNTIL the water reaches 170 degrees. At least in my experience with other recipes like this, you usually steep around 150-155 degrees for the desired time and then pour a small amount of 170 degree water over the grain bag. My technique may be different as I usually purchased my extract kits from Austin Homebrew, but that is usually what they said to do in their directions.

You will still want to steep the grain in 2.5 gallons of water, due to pH issues that may arise from steeping in a full volume.

What you could do is simply steep the grain for 20 minutes at no higher than 170, then lift out the grainbag when the time is over. Pour a gallon of water over the grains to "rinse" them, and then throw the grains away. Then top up to 6 gallons (or whatever your boil volume will be) and proceed to bring that up to a boil.

You will have some water that stays with the spent grains, so if you are going to strictly calculate volumes take that into account. I take the easy way out. I have marks on my stirring paddle in .5 gallon increments, so I just add a little top up water to my boil kettle whenever I need it (up until 15 minutes from flameout that is). I go all grain, so my top up water is only to account for any significant boil off.

I would steep the grains in 2 gallons or so at 160F, rinse/squeeze the bag after that is complete. Add your top up water to 5-5.5 gallons total before the boil starts. You can check into the late LME additions here to see how people avoid some of the carmelization and darkening of the wort by adding a significant portion of the liquid extract with 5-10 minutes from flameout. One more thing, do you have a wort chiller of some type? Eventually you will want one if you do full boils. Otherwise plan on 1-2 hours for chilling down to yeast pitching temps (target low end).

If you have kegging equipment, you can certainly skip the bottling. You have a choice of either priming with 3-4 oz of priming sugar into a corny keg, purging, and waiting 3 weeks prior to chilling. Or chill and set the CO2 to 13 psi and leave in the fridge for 2 weeks. I usally prime with sugar as I like the extra conditioning time, it saves half the CO2 to force carb and dispense a batch, and it frees up fridge space. But for lagers I usually force carb.

170 is the top of what's considered "safe" for steeping grains. Tannin extraction actually requires a combination of temperature and pH, so there's no hard and fast rule. In fact, a lot of traditional German recipes call for a decoction where a portion of the mash is boiled and no tannins are released.

If you want to get the most bang for your buck with the specialty grains, I'd suggest steeping in a relatively small volume of water, then rinsing the bag with more hot water while filling the kettle. Sort of like the brew-in-a-bag method. As for boil off, I lose about 1 gallon per hour using a 10 gallon stockpot, so I'd fill it up to 6 gallons and see how you do. I usually check the level every 15 minutes through and adjust the heat depending on the actual boil off rate. Keep in mind that you want a decent rolling boil going, but you don't have to crank it to 11. Think chicken soup, not pasta water.

And finally, of course you can keg condition. It's really just one big bottle. You can either add priming sugar (about half what you would do if you were bottling), or just put it under CO2. The latter method is called "force carbonation." There's a couple of different methods, but there should be a sticky for it in the kegging section that will explain it all.

Fennis said:

Honestly, if this is your first batch, follow the instructions. Learn the basic process before you try to branch out so you understand what those steps mean and what you are doing when you steep, boil, cool, and whatnot throughout the process of brewing. You could do a full boil, but doing a full boil using a recipe not designed for a full boil will result in some different flavors. Your hops will be utilized differently if you use the amount in the recipe. Really, for your first batch I'd stick to the instructions.

As for keg conditioning, yes you can condition in the keg, I have a keg setup and do it all the time. I let the beer ferment for 1-2 months in the primary, transfer to the keg and pressurize it at serving pressure for about a week and then the beer is ready to drink.

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I appreciate your advice. I have read 3 books on brewing process and the underlying science and I understand the fundamentals of the starch-sugar conversion (PH-Temperature). I have just never understood the point of "watering down" the wort post-boil. I understand that the flavor will change a bit...

Anyway, I will take your advice and just go with the 2.5 gallons it calls for and go by the process. I need to just get some hands on with this equipment for the time being!

muhteeus said:

I appreciate your advice. I have read 3 books on brewing process and the underlying science and I understand the fundamentals of the starch-sugar conversion (PH-Temperature). I have just never understood the point of "watering down" the wort post-boil. I understand that the flavor will change a bit...

Anyway, I will take your advice and just go with the 2.5 gallons it calls for and go by the process. I need to just get some hands on with this equipment for the time being!

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Like you, I read through this forum and books before I even started brewing. And while they all provide a lot of information, at least for me, it felt entirely different actually going through the process myself.

The watering down post-boil basically has to do with the fact that with your recipe, you are basically creating a concentrated sugar/hops mixture. Left alone, its sugar content is very high and concentrated. By adding in top-off water, you are diluting it down--all of this I am sure you have come across before. I think the reason a lot of extract recipes use this method is because most people starting out don't have 10 gallon brew pots and all the other equipment ready to go to take on the larger 7+ gallon full boils. Extract kits produce amazing beer, but they are also the most simplified way to brew. So, most kits are set up so you can do it on the stove in your kitchen with a 5 gallon pot which most of us have for whatever reason.

Full boils will produce, in my opinion, a better overall beer. Still, following the kit's instructions that you have will produce an excellent beer. I am not saying you don't go off track in the future, but if this is truly your first brew, keep it simple. You can read all the books and forums out there, but actually doing it is entirely different, there are a lot of little things to remember and pay attention to throughout the brew day, and it is important to get that down and following the recipe the first time around is probably a good thing.

Yes, the partial boil instructions in kits are so that people won't have to purchase a $100 stockpot they probably won't have a use for otherwise. However, I don't see anything wrong with going full-boil for your first batch. We here on HBT routinely suggest modifying kit instructions when it comes to fermentation, so what's the harm in modifying them for the brew session? No offense to anyone who had a disasterous first brew, but this isn't exactly rocket science. Steep grains, add extract, boil, add hops at the appropriate times, cool, and pitch. Sure, he'll get a slightly hoppier beer than the kit creator intended, but it'll certainly be drinkable (especially for an English pale ale).

However, that little summary does bring up a question for the OP: Do you have a wort chiller? I suppose you could chill 5 gallons with an ice bath, but it won't be optimal. And it would take a lot of ice. If you don't have a way to cool it quickly, I think you're better off with the partial boil.

My first brew was a 2.5 gallon per instructions and water dilution after the boil. That amber was really dark because of the additional carmelization from only boiling 2.5 gallons, and also b/c of adding all extract at the beginning of the boil. This was per instructions. One of the best improvements I made on brew #2 was doing full boil, and late extract addition. I did not have a wort chiller, so it took over an hour to reduce to pitching temps (upper 50's for a Kolsch in MN winter). Got a wort chiller for brew #3, and it was chilled inside of 20 minutes with cold tap water running inside the coils.

Sounds like you have the equipment to do full boil. Go with your knowledge, I think you will make better beer than if you closely followed the instructions.

A bit of advice, i just finished ,y first batch lat week. My kit said the same thing, lower boil volume, and add water later. I decided to do a full boil, and steeped in the 6 gallons that I started with, added everything as the recipe called for and then cooled the wort in a sink with ice. I suggest you either get a TON of ice (I had a 20 lb. bag and it wasnt enough) or get a wort chiller. It will be worth it to get a chiller. I had one that was very dirty and decided to not use it for my firts time and I wish I had cleaned it and used it.

I am not too sure why doing a full boil and steeping the grains in that 6 gallons would cause a pH imbalance or whatever. Just go with it. I am sure everything will turn out just fine and you will have beer in the end. Have fun and RDWHAHB

When I moved to all-grain brew in a bag, I of course would end up with 5+ gallons when I was all done and the ice in the sink no longer worked. Chillers are outrageously expensive for that they are, 25-50 feet of copper coil with some tubes and a sink/garden hose attachment, so I made my own. I bought a 25' coil of refrigerator water line that was able to sustain temperatures greater than 180 degrees--a little hard to find, but Home Depot had it for me. Then I bought some vinyl tubing, a few clamps, and a sink to garden hose attachment all for about $30. I took the copper coil and wrapped it around one of my kegs and then carefully bent the ends to the top, clamped on the tubing and the hose attachment and for half the price of what you get in the store, I had a chiller and it works perfectly. My first full-boil that I attempted to cool down took over an hour, even with ice in the sink as its just such a large volume and the pot I use is rather thick and retains heat very well. My homemade chiller takes it down to maybe 15 minutes...though that time will vary depending on your ground/city water temperature.