20 amp 240v GFCI outlet?

I just wanted to confirm, there's no such thing (or at least cheap thing) as a 20amp 240V GFCI outlet, right? The 120v ones are obvioulsy not hard to find, but is there a 240v version out there?

Now that I'm going to use a 4500w element isntead of a 5500w, I realized the 4500w at 240v gets me under 20 amps. Running a new 20amp line/wire/outlet would be easier/cheaper than everything that comes with 30amp service. But if there's no reasonably priced GFCI protection at 20amps, I'll just stick with the initial 30amp plan.

I'm guessing it doesn't exist or many people would have already gone that route.....

thanks

The other advantage to sizing everything at 20 amps is the cost. There is a significant cost difference between all of the much more common 20 amp equipment and the 30 amp equipment. I am running a 4500 watt element for this reason. I used a 30 amp gfci breaker and fed two 20 amp fuses in my controller so that I would be able to run #12 wire to everything and use 20 amp cord caps and receptacles to keep the cost down.

You could use a standard 240V / 20amp breaker and receptacle and an inline GFCI between your heating element and the plug. Not sure of the cost difference between that and the 30 amp solution, but wiring could be easier.




McMaster sells a 2ft 240V/20AMP extension cord for $80 (7348K54).

That's cutting it pretty close though isn't it?

In any case, the cheapest way to get GFCI at 240v is an inline spa panel. The upside to that is that you can upgrade to 50 amps of draw without a new GFCI.

yjfun said:

The other advantage to sizing everything at 20 amps is the cost. There is a significant cost difference between all of the much more common 20 amp equipment and the 30 amp equipment. I am running a 4500 watt element for this reason. I used a 30 amp gfci breaker and fed two 20 amp fuses in my controller so that I would be able to run #12 wire to everything and use 20 amp cord caps and receptacles to keep the cost down.

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I know this is an old thread but I saw this post and thought Id give you a heads up

what you did is illegal, not to code and a fire hazard

for continuous duty you have to a apply a 1.25factor to the current draw for safe operation

at 4500watts/240 = 18.75amps x 1.25 = 23amps so you need the 30amp brearker and the #10 wire, the #12 may get too hot during the long runs and could melt

NEC Article 100 states that a continuous load is 3 hours or more. Seeing as I don't do 3 hour boils it's perfectly safe and legal.

I like your thinking. Always look for the cheap easy way, then confirm there is no cheap easy way. I'm in the process of doing this for eBIAB.

yjfun said:

NEC Article 100 states that a continuous load is 3 hours or more. Seeing as I don't do 3 hour boils it's perfectly safe and legal.

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Aside from continuous duty definition

210.19(A), 215.2, and 230.42(A) specify that the conductor has to be able to carry no less than 100% of noncontinous duty load, in your case 30A (chosen breaker), #12 is good up to 90C if THHN your good to 30A,

unfortunately though, for small conductors (10,12,14) NEC 240.4(d) limits #12 to 20A overcurrent max, so connecting #12 to a 30A breaker is a no no

Did you not read that I fused down to 20 amps in the controller?

yjfun said:

Did you not read that I fused down to 20 amps in the controller?

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Isn't the issue that you have 12 gauge house wiring with a 30a breaker that is oversized for and won't protect the wiring, as your permanent installation? I would think that would not conform to code. Again, I am not an electrician.

I think he has 10 gauge wire from the 30amp breaker to to his 20 amp fuses, then 12 gauge wire from there on out.

DustBow said:

I think he has 10 gauge wire from the 30amp breaker to to his 20 amp fuses, then 12 gauge wire from there on out.

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Ah, so 30amp breaker with 10 gauge house wiring to the wall receptacle. Then 10 gauge from the wall receptacle into the 20 amp fuses in the control panel. Then 12 gauge from there. That is perfectly reasonable.

Thank you DustBow.

jeffmeh said:

Isn't the issue that you have 12 gauge house wiring with a 30a breaker that is oversized for and won't protect the wiring, as your permanent installation? I would think that would not conform to code. Again, I am not an electrician.

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He's got it here,

Regardless of your fusing, #12 wire cannot handle 30A per code, if you had a short in the wire prior to your fuse, the circuit would not blow until 30A, which the #12 wire is not rated for

When working residential I come across this issue quite a bit with #14 wire and 20A breakers. Its not to code and if it were wired this way and a fire happened due to the wiring its unlikely insurance would cover the damages.

ryane said:

He's got it here,

Regardless of your fusing, #12 wire cannot handle 30A per code, if you had a short in the wire prior to your fuse, the circuit would not blow until 30A, which the #12 wire is not rated for

When working residential I come across this issue quite a bit with #14 wire and 20A breakers. Its not to code and if it were wired this way and a fire happened due to the wiring its unlikely insurance would cover the damages.

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If he had a short prior to the fuse, would not the fuse blow first to protect the 12 gauge wire in the control panel, then the 30A breaker throw to protect the 10 gauge wire running from the breaker to the fuse? There are plenty of appliances and electronics that use fuses and smaller wire than the household wire matched to the breaker, yes? This is the same thing as far as I understand it.

ryane,

You need to take a look in your code book. It's not legal to land a number 12 wire under a 30 amp breaker in most situations but number 12 THHN is physically rated to handle a 30 amp load so there is no worry that the wire will fail before the breaker trips.

yjfun said:

ryane,

You need to take a look in your code book. It's not legal to land a number 12 wire under a 30 amp breaker in most situations but number 12 THHN is physically rated to handle a 30 amp load so there is no worry that the wire will fail before the breaker trips.

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I didnt see that you had #10 to the fuses and then #12 out, still your getting into murky territory and personally I would have run #10 the full length, its not much more $ anyway

also by NEC (in my earlier post) while #12 THHN is rated to 30A up to 90C, 240.4(D) supercedes anything else for small conductors eg #10,12,14, and states that the max load on a #12 is 20A, #10 is 30A, and #14 is 15A

Regardless of what your doing, which seems to be working for you, I put up my cautionary post for others reading the thread and personally I would recommend against others replicating it at home

The way I look at it is

1: That I can't impose greater than a 19 amp load on the wire

2: The wire can actually handle 30 amps

3: Everything is protected by a 20 amp fuse

4: The fuse would blow in the case of a short circuit well before the wire would melt.

5: Article 240 doesn't supersede everything. I have put lots of 30 amp breakers on number 12 wire in a perfectly legal installation in accordance with Article 400 and 240.21.

ryane said:

I didnt see that you had #10 to the fuses and then #12 out, still your getting into murky territory and personally I would have run #10 the full length, its not much more $ anyway

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I"m not sure why this is murky, it's the basic premise for structure wiring.

Large breaker protects panel and overall load, medium breakers may protect the wires to a sub panel, then within the sub panel smaller breakers protect the branch circuits.

For example, perhaps you have a 200A main, then within that main panel a 50A breaker over 6ga wire feeds a sub panel , then within the sub panel 20A breakers protect 12ga branch circuits.

yjfun said:

The way I look at it is

1: That I can't impose greater than a 19 amp load on the wire

2: The wire can actually handle 30 amps

3: Everything is protected by a 20 amp fuse

4: The fuse would blow in the case of a short circuit well before the wire would melt.

5: Article 240 doesn't supersede everything. I have put lots of 30 amp breakers on number 12 wire in a perfectly legal installation in accordance with Article 400 and 240.21.

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Ahhh...but the point isn't what applies in some cases, it's what applies to the specifics of the circuit at hand. Let's not obfuscate...