Is This Normal? (Photos)

Started my first ever brew, pretty excited!

It's a lager in a 5 gallon container - a gift from a friend. I sterilised the container to the best of my knowledge (10 minutes and rubbing a cloth round the top and edges and lid), before rinsing it out about 4 times.

I was keen to get my first brew tasting as good as possible without complicating things (the malt extract etc was from a tin/kit), and the guy in the local home brew shop suggested I use spray malt instead of brewing sugar, as it would give it a richer colour/more body. I was just worried it would taste like Fosters/Tennents (i.e. piss!).

Followed the instructions quite clearly, and the temperature of the water was around 21'C when I added the yeast and spray malt.

Now, the container lid didn't have a hole in it, and the guy in the shop was rather surprised it didn't, and said there was usually a valve of some sort on the top to let gas/pressure out. He said to not seal the container all the way round, and leave a slight gap in one side.

So, after a couple days, it was looking good - frothing/bubbling up. The room I have it in has been 16-18'C constantly. The instructions said 4-6 days, though given that it has been slightly colder in the room than the ideal 18-21'C, I thought I'd maybe give it an extra day or two.

Day 3/4 the bubbles had what appeared to be dried froth on the top. Today is day 5 of fermentation and all the froth has gone along with most of the bubbles.

Does these photos look normal? I was planning to bottle it tomorrow (Wednesday).

Looks like a healthy fermentation and krausen to me.

Usually there is a drilled whole with a rubber grommet where you can fix an airlock. I know some people who just do it the way you did by not sealing the lid. Loads of people like to sit and watch their airlock bubble, however.

Looks great, give it more time.

Thanks for quick response!

So it is normal for dried patches of froth to appear on the top and a sticky gooey residue around the side where the froth had been? I was concerned something had gone wrong!

Given that it has been colder in the room, does it look like it is ok to bottle in 24 hours time? Should all the bubbles/froth be gone or is that fine as it is now?

Looks very normal. I would put a hole in that top as soon as you are done with this batch though. Not having a seal is asking for trouble. Normally the best practice is to leave your beer in primary for a couple of weeks, but without a seal I would probably bottle as soon as your gravity stabilizes.

the clean looking foam is more or less yeast and other proteins from the brewing process and the green goop is hop sludge from the boil. looks perfectly normal to me.

Kilamite said:

Thanks for quick response!

So it is normal for dried patches of froth to appear on the top and a sticky gooey residue around the side where the froth had been? I was concerned something had gone wrong!

Given that it has been colder in the room, does it look like it is ok to bottle in 24 hours time? Should all the bubbles/froth be gone or is that fine as it is now?

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Fermentation is an ugly/messy process. I would not bottle yet. Do you have a hydrometer? You need to make sure that the beer is finished fermenting other wise too much CO2 can be produced in your bottles and cause them to burst. (search: bottle bombs).

If you have a hydrometer, you need to take measurements and ideally have maybe 3 days of consistently same readings to know if its done. Beer can also greatly benefit from patience. Even though fermentation may be complete, it will get much better after another 1-2 weeks. Basically yeast produce lots of things that cause beer to taste "off." Fortunately, when they are done eating all those sugars, they then eat all of those byproducts.

I know its hard with a first brew, but you will be rewarded.

Kilamite said:

Does these photos look normal? I was planning to bottle it tomorrow (Wednesday).

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OMG that beer is ruined! Ship it to me immediately for proper disposal

iv_hokie12 said:

Looks very normal. I would put a hole in that top as soon as you are done with this batch though. Not having a seal is asking for trouble. Normally the best practice is to leave your beer in primary for a couple of weeks, but without a seal I would probably bottle as soon as your gravity stabilizes.

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I disagree, infection can only happen from things falling in your beer. nothing is going to creep up the side through a tiny crack in the side where your bucket isn't sealed. Lots of people just loosely cover with foil even.

Instructions said 4-6 days for a quick brew - I'd be happy to perhaps bottle 10 now and keep it fermenting for another week? Or once you start draining do you have to do it all?

I really wish I had done hydrometer readings - but I guess today is the first day I can take a reading given the amount of froth there was before?

If you want to bottle 10 now and bottle the rest later you would probably want to use conditioning tablets rather than corn sugar. I'd imagine it would be hard to be precise enough with corn sugar. Plus if you do it that way you could just siphon it directly from the primary to your bottles and break the siphon when you are done rather than racking to a bottling bucket and try and estimate how much you need. I probably wouldn't recommend that method, but you could certainly do it. 4-6 days sounds too fast. I have had very low gravity batches that I bottled after 7 when I am impatient and didn't really have a pipeline going, but it is far from ideal.

Very normal. With no hydrometer, there is no way for you to know for sure if it is done.

Give it more time, the worst that will happen is that your beer will be better.

It looks fine.

If this is indeed a lager, shouldn't it actually...well...lager? As in sit for awhile?

I haven't brewed any lagers as of yet but I thought that is how it went.

Regardless, letting it sit for awhile longer will probably be a big benefit. I always tell people, the hardest part of brewing is the waiting.

Someone who is more experienced than me might want to chime in on this, but now that the bulk of the fermentation is done you might want to seal it up, and just crack it open every few hours to relieve the pressure.

The main problem you will run into with bottling some now is that you will risk getting oxygen to your beer, which is bad. I would try to leave it in the bucket for at least 2 weeks.

You say it is a lager, and they usually take a week or two to fully ferment. Also lagers are usually lagered. Meaning they are brought down to high 30s to low 40s for 4-6 weeks to clean up. This and the lower fermentation temp is why people usually start with ales.

Do you know if you actually used lager yeast?

iv_hokie12 said:

Someone who is more experienced than me might want to chime in on this, but now that the bulk of the fermentation is done you might want to seal it up, and just crack it open every few hours to relieve the pressure.

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If the initial vigorous fermentation is done he doesnt need to crack it open to vent out the pressure really, especially if he doesnt have a lid with a rubber seal on it, the excess c02 will find a way out.

I've no idea if it was lager yeast - was in a starter kit (Youngs), the yeast was unbranded.

So the best idea is to just leave it for another week? Should I take hydrometer readings or if I'm leaving it for another week it'll be fine either way?

Should I try move it into a place with a lower temperature? I'll keep the lid sealed shut for now, and open it every now and then.

Kilamite said:

I've no idea if it was lager yeast - was in a starter kit (Youngs), the yeast was unbranded.

So the best idea is to just leave it for another week? Should I take hydrometer readings or if I'm leaving it for another week it'll be fine either way?

Should I try move it into a place with a lower temperature? I'll keep the lid sealed shut for now, and open it every now and then.

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What were the fermentation instructions? Lagers are usually fermented around 50 for three weeks or so, go through a 3 day rest at room temperature, and then lager for a month or more.

Instructions for the kit say:

"Fermentation will be complete when bubbles have stopped rising (between 4-6 days). Alternatively, you can check that the fermentation has stopped when your hydrometer reading is constant for 3 days."

"Syphon the beer into beer bottles... ... leave for 14 days".

I don't think it will be an exceptionally great lager given the vague instructions!

def dont bottle tomorrow, you need to let that bulk sit on the yeast cake for ATLEAST 2 weeks and even that is pretty early by most of our standards. +1 to maxam, you can even ferment your beer without the lid at all... I dont, but you can. you'll want to get a grommet and an airlock for the lid next brew it makes life simple

I would leave it alone for two weeks. Then take a hydrometer reading and record the gravity. Take another reading 3 days later and if it is unchanged then you can bottle, assuming this is an ale. I know it's hard to be patient, but patience is virtue, trust me.

gcdowd said:

I would leave it alone for two weeks. Then take a hydrometer reading and record the gravity. Take another reading 3 days later and if it is unchanged then you can bottle, assuming this is an ale. I know it's hard to be patient, but patience is virtue, trust me.

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It's a lager from a kit.

How do I record the gravity? I have a hydrometer.

Ahh ok. Lagers need to ferment at much lower temps. What temp are you fermenting at?

Around 16-18'C in the room I have it just now.

The instructions for the kit said 18-21'C. I'm not sure whether it is a particularly top notch kit.

Main part of fermentation is over so it's to late changing temp now, leave it where it is, take gravity reading today, another one on Friday and one more 2-3 days later, if all 3 results are the same u are safe to bottle if not wait longer

I never took a gravity reading when I started - is there any other way to determine the alcohol percentage?

I'll take a couple readings over the next 5 days to see if it's ready.

Well I've never brewed a lager so I'm no expert but I believe it needs to be lagered for a few weeks after fermentation. If you choose to skip that, I would still wait a few weeks then take a hydrometer reading

Kilamite said:

I never took a gravity reading when I started - is there any other way to determine the alcohol percentage?

I'll take a couple readings over the next 5 days to see if it's ready.

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If you post the recipe, people here can determine the OG.

gcdowd said:

Well I've never brewed a lager so I'm no expert but I believe it needs to be lagered for a few weeks after fermentation. If you choose to skip that, I would still wait a few weeks then take a hydrometer reading

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What does 'lagered' mean?

gcdowd said:

If you post the recipe, people here can determine the OG.

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It was a kit/straight from a can (well the malt extract etc), rather than an actual recipe. All I did was pour in the contents from the can, add the yeast and brewing sugar (well I used spray malt instead).

How many pounds of liquid malt and dry malt did you use?

gcdowd said:

How many pounds of liquid malt and dry malt did you use?

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The tin weighs 1.8kg, and I put 1kg of dry/spray malt in.

It is meant to be 4.5%, but that was with brewing sugar, I assume dry/spray malt might make it stronger/weaker?

Spray malt will make it a little weaker as it won't fully ferment like sugar will. Looks like your OG is around 1.047. After you take your final gravity, you can take the difference between your original gravity (OG) and your final gravity (FG) and multiply by 130 to get a rough estimate of your alcohol %.

im sure it was a lager kit using an ale yeast. Especially if it said to keep temps around 20c. That would not be good with a lager yeast.

Most of us leave the beer on the yeast cake for about 3 weeks. This allows the yeast to clean up any off flavors. You will get better beer this way.

Ah ok, I'll leave it for another couple of weeks.

Is there any disadvantage to using ale yeast in a lager (if it is indeed ale yeast that my kit has)? How will it affect flavours?

homebrewdad said:

very normal. With no hydrometer, there is no way for you to know for sure if it is done.

Give it more time, the worst that will happen is that your beer will be better.

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this!!

Kilamite said:

Ah ok, I'll leave it for another couple of weeks.

Is there any disadvantage to using ale yeast in a lager (if it is indeed ale yeast that my kit has)? How will it affect flavours?

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1: Looks like normal ale fermentation. I would never bottle a beer that was turbid (tons of floculating yeast) or covered with a krausen. This will only produce a ton of yeast in the bottom the bottle when you chill them. Best to give it a few more days, shake to get that krausen to fall, put it in a very cold place ( 0C would be best, i.e., fridge), leave it for another 2 days, then bottle. That would make it clear.

2: Ales have flavor and aromas that are created by the ale yeast. Ale yeasts ferment in warm temps (i.e., 20C). Lagers are made by using a lager yeast that are unique (at least in one way) in that they ferment very well at 5-10C. At these low temps, they create very little aromatics, very little fruity flavors, and as a result can create a very crisp beer. The term "lager" is actually a verb that means "to store", which is usually how we treat lagers. We use a lager yeast, ferment at cold temps, then store (at any temperature) for weeks or months.

3: From now on religiously record the starting gravity (OG) and final gravity (FG) of your beers, and record them. There are very simple ways of dermining your ABV and other metrics with only these two numbers. You can't get the OG after-the-fact.

4: Hang out at this forum for a while and you'll learn all you need to know. It's all here, cleverly hidden under mounds of other stuff.

Sounds like another case of terrible instructions in a misleading kit.

It will really be an ale. It is a recipe that brews a very light lager like beer that is fermented with ale yeast.

Yeast will work at their own time table. To be ready to bottle a 7 days or one week is terrible advice. I have done beers that were not even half done fermenting at 7 days. Also yeast are not finished when the primary fermentation has passed. The will continue to clean up the flavors and clarity of the beer.

Wait 3 weeks then take gravity readings over 3 days, if they don't change you are ready to bottle.

gcdowd said:

Spray malt will make it a little weaker as it won't fully ferment like sugar will. Looks like your OG is around 1.047. After you take your final gravity, you can take the difference between your original gravity (OG) and your final gravity (FG) and multiply by 130 to get a rough estimate of your alcohol %.

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So you times it by 130? I drop the decimal, then times it by 7.46.. sure it equals out the same way all goes down the same way anyway.

I would love a bucket I could see krausen through.

This sounds exactly like my first kit. It isn't a lager, it's a pale ale in the style of a lager- I guess it's a marketing thing- people where I am (the UK) want to drink lagers, so call it a pale ale on the box and sales will go down. I had a BrewBuddy lager kit for my first brew and followed the instructions (yours sound the same as mine). My beer was... drinkable. Since then I've done other similar kits and left them longer before bottling and my beer now is... better.

Just my tuppence worth.