Caramel Apple Hard Cider

So I bottled this tonight. Syrup stayed together and flavor was very good. I got it down to 1.010, made caramel according to directions. Disappointment for me was the cinnamon seemed to seperate out. Perhaps I did not boil caramel long enough for it to bind with sugar. As this is my first cider I followed original directions to the letter.

We will see how it shapes up to be ready for Turkey Day! Gooble, Gobble Gurgle Gurgle

ShepFL said:

Disappointment for me was the cinnamon seemed to seperate out.

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This is also the reason that in the revised recipe (on page 42) I added the possible use of liquid cinnamon extract instead of powdered cinnamon. When I first made this, the same thing happened. Don't worry too much, there will be enough cinnamon in each bottle.

UpstateMike said:

This is also the reason that in the revised recipe (on page 42) I added the possible use of liquid cinnamon extract instead of powdered cinnamon. When I first made this, the same thing happened. Don't worry too much, there will be enough cinnamon in each bottle.

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Maybe the edits could/should be made to the original post? Or at least a link to the updated version. I had a tough time locating it on the mobile version since the pages don't match up with the website pages

mistercameron said:

Maybe the edits could/should be made to the original post? Or at least a link to the updated version. I had a tough time locating it on the mobile version since the pages don't match up with the website pages

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The forum software wont allow edits to the original post, too much time has passed. But here is a link to the updated recipe.

Updated Recipe

I have a question. I have this recipe fermenting now and I believe it is almost done. I'm planning on racking this to my secondary and adding campden tablets this weekend before kegging. However, I bought the apple juice in 2 gallon sets and used 5 leaving one left over that I'm probably not going to drink. Would it be possible to add dextrose to my leftover gallon and add it to the primary with the yeast cake (after racking my fermented batch to the secondary) and let that one go? It's a 6 gallon fermenting bucket. Is that entirely too much headspace (1 gallon juice + yeast cake in 6 gallon fermenter)? Will this cause any problems? Thanks

dgrums said:

I have a question. I have this recipe fermenting now and I believe it is almost done. I'm planning on racking this to my secondary and adding campden tablets this weekend before kegging. However, I bought the apple juice in 2 gallon sets and used 5 leaving one left over that I'm probably not going to drink. Would it be possible to add dextrose to my leftover gallon and add it to the primary with the yeast cake (after racking my fermented batch to the secondary) and let that one go? It's a 6 gallon fermenting bucket. Is that entirely too much headspace (1 gallon juice + yeast cake in 6 gallon fermenter)? Will this cause any problems? Thanks

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I'd wash the yeast and save it for your next batch

Thanks for setting me straight guys

I transferred this to the carboy to clear fit 24 hours and made the original syrup (perhaps an addition is on order) mine seperated as well. Anyway, started at 1.066 and got down to 1.010 last night. I will do three tins concentrate and the syrup. Here is last night right after racking and this morning 9 hours later.

UpstateMike said:

Are you using Nottingham? What temp are you fermenting at? I usually don't get much of a krausen from Notty.

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I am using WLP001 California Ale yeast, as I have a bit higher temps than you, I am fermenting at 70-74.

After 3 days of major krausen forming, it has calmed down and is bubbling along nicely.

Thanks for the recipe! Next batch starts this weekend, this time with Saison yeast.

Is he adding the 12 oz of caramel syrup to the ingredients in part 2?

with the added sugar it carbs nice and fast you said... now what if i want to get it.. this is my first attempt at cider.. do i need to put it on co2.. or will this naturally carb enough to dispense its self?

mkringii, I assume you are talking about kegging this recipe? (you mentioned putting it on co2) If so, this has been discussed multiple times, but I will lay it out again. After the two weeks of primary fermentation are complete, crush up 5 campden tablets and add it to your secondary fermenter after you rack the cider there. The campden tablets will stop the fermentation (as a kegger, you do not want the cider to naturally carb up because you can add co2 later, a step you cannot do in bottles). After the cider has been exposed to the campden tablets for 24 hours, you can then rack your cider into your sanitized keg, back sweetening with the caramel syrup. What I did was made the syrup on the stove, mixed it with 3 cans of AJ concentrate in a pitcher and then slowly added it into the keg while cider was transferring. The syrup by itself is very thick so when it added it to the AJ concentrate, it thinned it out a bit and allowed everything to mix together. Then pressurize your keg with enough PSI to seal the lid (i used 8PSI) and leave it outside of your fridge while it ages. You can bump it up to 10-12PSI later on as it gets closer to serving time. That will carbonate it more. Most importantly, you need to age this cider. It's very green coming out of the secondary fermentor.

So is this recipe using the ingredients in the syrup recipe used to make the syrup and not actually using caramel syrup?

Garyr2973 said:

So is this recipe using the ingredients in the syrup recipe used to make the syrup and not actually using caramel syrup?

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Yes.

Although I am sure that you could use real caramel syrup and some cinnamon extract. It's 12 oz over 23l pretty sure it won't really effect much.

Hey Mike, I racked this on Friday with hopes of bottling Saturday. Life happened and it is now Monday. Will this have caused any problems with the cider, or will it just be a little clearer.

Garyr2973 said:

So is this recipe using the ingredients in the syrup recipe used to make the syrup and not actually using caramel syrup?

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Correct.

Mike, is this the recipe you use?
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f81/daves-carmel-apple-cider-244656/

So I am about to rack my cider. I plan to keg the cider and carbonate, then I'm going to bottle them from the keg. I understand that you should let the cider condition for a while. My question is should I let it condition in the keg with CO2 on it or should I bottle them and then let them bottle condition? Also from whichever is better, what is the recommended time before its good to go?

Just wanted to say thanks to Upstate Mike for the recipe. Pasteurizing mine right now and sampling a few of them chilled overnight. Very good cider!

Mine came out slightly different because I put off bottling it for 3 weeks instead of 2 and it dried out a bit more than the recipe called for but I prefer dry ciders anyway so it worked out to my benefit.

Here's my readings:
OG: 1.060 Temp: 71

FG:1.004 Temp: 72

Abv: 7.34%

Brewed: 9-15
Bottled:10-6
Pasteurized: 10-15

Sorry I don't have the temp corrected readings handy.

I only used 2 frozen concentrated aj canisters and the syrup as suggested in the recipe. Next time I think I'd use the liquid cinnamon extract or secondary with cinnamon sticks.

Upstate Mike thank you sir!


FYI:
I had several 22oz plastic bottles as samples for carbing and bottled the rest in 12oz beer bottles. Remember to sample one of the 12ozs for carbonation before you pasteurize. I got excited when samples in the plastic bottles carbed up nice and threw a 6 -12 oz bottles in the fridge and pasteurized the rest without sampling a 12oz one. After pasteurizing the whole batch i sat down to enjoy one of the 12oz bottles I stashed in the fridge and they are undercarbed. Still very delicious cider, but lesson learned.

This was my first batch of cider and my first attempt at pasteurization, my batch carbed up far slower because i added less sugar, with only 2 fcaj canisters and the syrup and by 3 weeks in the primary the cider had cleared quite a bit. Also syrup did separate out, next time id make it not nearly as thick and mix it way more thoroughly.

Ok, I have questions. I bottled this today and used a PET plastic as my first and last bottle to keep a handle on carbonation. I used 341ml glass crown caps for most if the remaining batch but I did do some 750ml glass crown caps and some 750ml glass Perrier bottles with PET caps. If I keep an eye on the plastic test bottles will my carbonation be the same in the bigger bottles and if I cold crashed the Perrier bottles because of the PET caps, how long do they need to be at temperature to kill the yeast and what temp do they need to be at? Also, does cold crashing kill the yeast or just leave it dormant so when they bottles return to room temperature, fermentation resumes?

Hi there, i started fermenting this on 10/6 and the airlock still showing active fermentation. I was thinking about taking a gravity reading to see how close i am to the target gravity but something felt weird about opening my carboy while fermentation is still going on. Sould i wait until there are no more signs of fermentaion in the airlock before i take a same to test the gavity? Thanks in advance for any responses i get.

With this recipe and apple juices sugar content, this would continue to ferment well past the 1.015 - 1.010 target and dry right out. I started mine about 5 days before yours and I bottled today after 2.5 days in the secondary. It's just me but I would take a reading now, as my airlock continued to bubble even after racking.

BenRuss said:

Ok, I have questions. I bottled this today and used a PET plastic as my first and last bottle to keep a handle on carbonation. I used 341ml glass crown caps for most if the remaining batch but I did do some 750ml glass crown caps and some 750ml glass Perrier bottles with PET caps. If I keep an eye on the plastic test bottles will my carbonation be the same in the bigger bottles and if I cold crashed the Perrier bottles because of the PET caps, how long do they need to be at temperature to kill the yeast and what temp do they need to be at? Also, does cold crashing kill the yeast or just leave it dormant so when they bottles return to room temperature, fermentation resumes?

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My bigger bottles carbed up at the same rate as my 12 oz ones and my plastic bottle. The key is to have the same headspace in all. Cold crashing will just leave the yeast dormant. Once it warms back up, they will start munching on the sugars again.

Im so excited to make this recipe. I read it last night and literally dreamt about it! Dance of the caramel apple cider fairies... ;-)

That's great info about the 22oZ bottles. I will pasturize them all but maybe do the Perrier bottles at a slightly lower temp for longer. Just worried about the plastic caps.

This is all great info and I have the cider in the fermentor. Someone has probably answered this already but I tried to go through the entire thread but had to start skimming around page 25. It says to make the Caramel Syrup 24 hours before bottling. How should it be stored? Should it be kept at room temperature or in the fridge? Thanks.

Also does anyone have any suggestions for where to get the plastic bottles for testing. I keep reading to use soda bottles but I want to be able to drink my test bottles and expect that a bottle that had soda sitting in it for a long time will impart strange tastes.

jimox said:

This is all great info and I have the cider in the fermentor. Someone has probably answered this already but I tried to go through the entire thread but had to start skimming around page 25. It says to make the Caramel Syrup 24 hours before bottling. How should it be stored? Should it be kept at room temperature or in the fridge? Thanks.

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I keep mine at room temp as putting it in the fridge would thicken it up which inhibits mixing it into the cider while bottling. As for the plastic bottle, I used a bottle of seltzer water to protect against exactly what you mentioned.

HopHeaven said:

I keep mine at room temp as putting it in the fridge would thicken it up which inhibits mixing it into the cider while bottling. As for the plastic bottle, I used a bottle of seltzer water to protect against exactly what you mentioned.

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Perfect, thanks.

PET plastic pop bottles are designed to not hold flavour or allow air to seep into the beverage. If they did, bottled soda would taste different then canned not to mention that people use coke to take tar off their cars. If the plastic bottle leached flavour and air in and out, the acid in most sodas would eat the bottle during long shelf lives. Get green ones though so you have a little UV barrier at least.

BenRuss said:

PET plastic pop bottles are designed to not hold flavour or allow air to seep into the beverage. If they did, bottled soda would taste different then canned not to mention that people use coke to take tar off their cars. If the plastic bottle leached flavour and air in and out, the acid in most sodas would eat the bottle during long shelf lives. Get green ones though so you have a little UV barrier at least.

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That makes sense and thanks for the info.

jimox said:

This is all great info and I have the cider in the fermentor. Someone has probably answered this already but I tried to go through the entire thread but had to start skimming around page 25. It says to make the Caramel Syrup 24 hours before bottling. How should it be stored? Should it be kept at room temperature or in the fridge? Thanks.

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It can be made long before 24 hours in advance. If you do this a few days or weeks ahead of time, store it in the fridge. Before using it, let it warm up naturally (no microwaves, stoves, etc) to room temperature.

I make it 24 hours ahead of time. I leave it out to cool naturally (no refridgerators, ice baths, ets), sealed, and let it get to room temperature before using it.

The key here is when using the syrup, it should be room temp.

UpstateMike said:

It can be made long before 24 hours in advance. If you do this a few days or weeks ahead of time, store it in the fridge. Before using it, let it warm up naturally (no microwaves, stoves, etc) to room temperature.

I make it 24 hours ahead of time. I leave it out to cool naturally (no refridgerators, ice baths, ets), sealed, and let it get to room temperature before using it.

The key here is when using the syrup, it should be room temp.

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I will probably do the same. Thanks.

Ok fellas here is my update.
I racked my cider to carboy to clear at 1.010 as fermentation stopped (Notty). I used the obligatory soda bottles to test for carbing. 3 days rather flat day 4 hard bottle but very little residual. Let it sit another 4 days and good carb, some over carbed i.e. gushers. Bottle pasturized 40 bottles (swing top) and 20 tossed into the kegerator. Some of the bottle pasturized ones "vented" but no bottle bombs i.e. busted bottles.

Lessons Learned - Next batch I am thinking of bottle pasturizing at 4 days.
For now I am going to let it age until Halloween and crack them open.
Will post results of whether I like pasturized or cold crash better.
What say you?

Remember - Autumn eyes are upon you

Prost fellas!
I have a question about the yeast nutrients in the updated PART 1 on page 42.
I made my hard cider based on PART 1 in the OP recipe (OG 1.070 using Trader Joe's Unfiltered Organic Apple Juice). So, I didn't add the 6tsp of yeast nutrient.
I am about 1 week into the fermentation. I am finding the fermentation isn't as vigorous as an ale fermentation using the Nottingham yeast.
My question, is it too late to add the yeast nutrients to give it that added boost? Will it give an off flavor if I do?
Thanks in advance!

Could not wait the obligatory 2 wks for aging. Here is shot of the 1st bottle.
Mmm Mmm Good. Needs to age a bit but still really good.
Thanks Upstate Mike!!

That mug looks good right there.

I was gun shy about pasturizing this time, as last time it went 5 days and all were gushers so they had to make it straight to the fridge... This time I pasturized at 4 days, the plastic bottles were good and hard, I tested one room temp bottle at the time and it seemed okay. The two that I had out of the refridgerator yesterday were basically Hard Apple Juice. They gave off the regular "pssht" when opened, but I couldnt detect any carb taste.

Ahh well, looks like I have to start a new batch now while drinking my apple juice...

norman1080 said:

Prost fellas!
I have a question about the yeast nutrients in the updated PART 1 on page 42.
I made my hard cider based on PART 1 in the OP recipe (OG 1.070 using Trader Joe's Unfiltered Organic Apple Juice). So, I didn't add the 6tsp of yeast nutrient.
I am about 1 week into the fermentation. I am finding the fermentation isn't as vigorous as an ale fermentation using the Nottingham yeast.
My question, is it too late to add the yeast nutrients to give it that added boost? Will it give an off flavor if I do?
Thanks in advance!

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Yep, I just started another batch about 4 days ago. Guess what I forgot. Yep, the yeast nutrient. The ferment is slow, but steady. Am I going to add yeast nutrient now? No, I'll just let it go slowly. I figure that is better to do than take the chance of introducing oxygen, or some other unwanted microbes.

UpstateMike said:

Yep, I just started another batch about 4 days ago. Guess what I forgot. Yep, the yeast nutrient. The ferment is slow, but steady. Am I going to add yeast nutrient now? No, I'll just let it go slowly. I figure that is better to do than take the chance of introducing oxygen, or some other unwanted microbes.

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Upstate Mike, Thanks for the response. I will let it be and finish the fermentation at its own rate. I can't wait to try this. Cheers!

We will be getting our fresh pressed apple juice next month. I am going to reserve 15 gallons for this.