ESB Recipe - Need Input

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rob897

rob897

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I found an ESB recipe online and due to the hop shortage I went with the home brew store recommendation for the hop replacements, here is the recipe for a 5 Gallon batch.
Code: 
[B]Ingredients:[/B]
0.25 lb American Caramel 20°L
0.25 lb Special Roast Malt
10.0 lb Maris Otter Pale
1.0 lb Barley Flaked
1.0 oz Fuggle (4.8%) - added during boil, boiled 60.0 min
1.0 oz Willamette (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 30.0 min
1.0 oz Nugget (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 10.0 min
1.0 ea WYeast 1098 British Ale

Can someone give me some good mash temps and the amount of time needed for this style? Usually the recipe has this included, but this one did not.
Or any suggestions altering the above recipe as I plan to brew this one next month.
 
You'll want to mash fairly high, 154 F for an hour should work, in order to get a bit more body in the finished beer. The recipe looks pretty good but I'm questioning the Nugget hops addition with 10 minutes left in the boil. Nugget is usually a bittering hop and not really in the style of ESBs.
 
You might check the order of the hop additions; those look off to me. Generally Fuggles is used as an aroma hop (later addition) and a high alpha hop (i.e., 13%) is used for bittering at 60.

Also, not sure about the pound of flaked barley.

edit: KB beat me to it....
 
It does indeed look like the bittering is reversed. You may want to check the IBU's though with the Nugget, Fuggle and Willamette in that order. You could do either the Willamette or the Fuggle as your last addition. I'd go for the Fuggle as the flavor addition. And yes, mash around 154, you'll probably convert in less than a 1/2 hr. but have your Iodine handy to be sure. The flaked Barley should add mouthfeel or so they say, I personally never use it.
 
I, too, would question the hop schedule. I'd also question the use of Nugget hops at all. If they are available, try Challenger for your bittering addition. They are higher AA than most British hops (6.5-8.5%) and fit the ESB profile better than Nugget, which BYO calls "Quite heavy and herbal." Failing that, I'd still use something more neutral for your bittering addition. Galena, Magnum or Warrior should be available.

Chad
 
expanding upon the hop suggestions, you're already getting all you IBUs from the fuggles and willamete, the nugget aren't providing much bitterness being added so late. just use another oz of fuggles in the nugget's place. if you can't get more fuggles, then east kent goldings, styrian goldings and willamete should all work well in an ESB too. Or you could use Target for bittering (you'd probably only need .5-.75 oz. for the same IBU) and move the fuggles to the 10 minute spot.
 
If you are interested, in the current issue of Zymurgy (Sept/Oct) there is an article written by John Keeling (brewing director at Fuller) about brewing ESB. It is a good read.
 
rob897 said:
Code: 
[B]Ingredients:[/B]
0.25 lb American Caramel 20°L
0.25 lb Special Roast Malt
10.0 lb Maris Otter Pale
1.0 lb Barley Flaked
1.0 oz Fuggle (4.8%) - added during boil, boiled 60.0 min
1.0 oz Willamette (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 30.0 min
1.0 oz Nugget (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 10.0 min
1.0 ea WYeast 1098 British Ale
Click to expand...

Code: 
[B]The original recipe called for[/B] 
1.0 oz East Kent Golding for 60 min*
1.0 oz Williamette for 30 min
1.0 oz Galena for 10 min*

* These where not available from my local home brew store

UPDATE
Just called the store and they have East Kent Goldings in now, so going with these for 60 min instead of the Fuggles as per the original recipe do you guys think this will work out better? And what should I do to replace the Galenas as they are still out of these?
 
More Goldings or Fuggles. I don't understand Galena as an aroma hop for an ESB. It doesn't belong in an ESB really at all, but definitely not as aroma. IMHO

edit
If you already have your other hops from the first recipe I would set the Galena aside for another brew
EKG 60
Willamette 30
Fuggles10
EKG Dry hop
 
I'm with them. Hop it with EKG or Fuggle at 60 minute, Willamette at 30 minutes, and more EKG or Fuggle at 10 minutes.

Cheers!
 
I'm glad you're able to get some Goldings. That will go a long way toward preserving the British ale character you're looking for.

The original recipe is suspect. Or the author/brewer was going for something completely unconventional. Galena (and Nugget, for that matter) is usually a neutral bittering hop used at the start of the boil rather than as a flavor/aroma hop near the end. Putting high Alpha hops at the end of the schedule, where the Alpha acids won't be isomerized (i.e. won't make it into the beer), is just plain odd.

I'd go with all Goldings, Fuggle and Willamette. The original hop schedule puts you at about 35 IBUs, which is right for the style. This schedule:
  • 1.5oz Kent Goldings (60 min.)
  • 1oz Willamette (30 min)
  • 1oz Fuggle (10 min)
will put you in the 35-37 IBU ballpark with much more British character.

Chad
 
Jeez, you guys are fast.

Interesting that we all came up with the same schedule.

Chad
 
thanks everyone so the 154 mash in temp sounds good? I have never done the iodine test, I am also going to have to reread my previous brews as I will have to figure out how much water I need at mashin and how much I need for sparge as it's been over 6 month since I brewed.
I have Beer Tools Pro but I don't think I have that calibrated to it's full potential. I can attach the recipe from btp if anyone interested in letting me know if I have it setup correctly?
 
If you doubt whether BTP is generating the right numbers, I recommend downloading a free trial copy of BeerSmith, plugging your recipe into there, and comparing the results. :)

I just plugged it in, and got 3.57 Gallons at 169*F strike, 4.48 Gallons sparge water. That's assuming single batch sparge, and mash tun *not* pre-heated (BeerSmith compensates if you ask it to)... If you want to pre-heat your tun seperately, drain, then mash in, it's 166*F strike temp.

What numbers are BTP telling you? (The BTP recipe file won't help me, I don't have that software. Someone else might?)
 
I have both btp and beersmith so let me plug them both in and send you the data when I get home.
 
Ok I have attached the Beersmith recipe.
Forgive me I am still trying to learn how to use this program as I have not setup my equipment properly in here, but I have a 15 Gallon Keggle I use for the boil, and a 70 qt cooler (photos here)
But I am not seeing where I get the Mash temps/times/water volumes etc from Beersmith.
I always Batch Sparge as well as I see there are some settings for that as well... so if anyone can help me get this configured properly... I would appreciate it.

View attachment esb.bsm
 
rob897 said:
Ok I have attached the Beersmith recipe.
Forgive me I am still trying to learn how to use this program as I have not setup my equipment properly in here, but I have a 15 Gallon Keggle I use for the boil, and a 70 qt cooler (photos here)
But I am not seeing where I get the Mash temps/times/water volumes etc from Beersmith.
I always Batch Sparge as well as I see there are some settings for that as well... so if anyone can help me get this configured properly... I would appreciate it.
Click to expand...

To set your mash profile, about 1/2 way down the page when your recipe is open is "Mash Profile". Click "choose" and there are your choices. You can also adjust this to your preferences. For example, I picked "single infusion medium body" and checked the box for "adjust temp for equipment".

Also, don't forget to look at the top part of this recipe- you have a 5 gallon brewpot checked, with defaults to a 4 gallon boil, so your numbers are funny.

View attachment esb2.bsm
 
rob897 said:
But I am not seeing where I get the Mash temps/times/water volumes etc from Beersmith.
Click to expand...

Did you notice the "Preview Brewsheet" button along the top bar? It took me a while to notice it. That's the easiest place to get all of your strike volumes and temps. :)
 
Also, don't forget to look at the top part of this recipe- you have a 5 gallon brewpot checked, with defaults to a 4 gallon boil, so your numbers are funny.
Click to expand...
What should my brewpot be then?
And do I leave my Batch size set at 5 gallons still?


Did you notice the "Preview Brewsheet" button along the top bar? It took me a while to notice it. That's the easiest place to get all of your strike volumes and temps.
Click to expand...
Now I did, thats really nice... thanks for the tip.
 
rob897 said:
What should my brewpot be then?
And do I leave my Batch size set at 5 gallons still?



Now I did, thats really nice... thanks for the tip.
Click to expand...

Well, what IS your brewpot and boil size? My MLT is a 10 gallon Gott cooler, and a 7.5 gallon turkey fryer, so I have that profile in mine.
 
My brewpot is a Keggle so it holds approx 15 gallons so I usually think my boil size is about 6 gallons... usually loose 1/2 gallon during the boil.
My MLT is a 70 qt coleman cooler that I converted.
 
KingBrianI said:
You'll want to mash fairly high, 154 F for an hour should work, in order to get a bit more body in the finished beer.
Click to expand...

Am I the only person who thinks this is overkill, given that there's a pound of flaked barley in there already?

I don't want to make you reconfigure your program, but I really don't think it's necessary to mash high, not with that much flaked barley in the grist. Flaked barley has a significant impact on body, mouthfeel and head retention.

That said, I don't like this grist for ESB anyway. [shrug]

I'm not sure what the original recipe was trying for, but it sure as hell wasn't English-style ESB.

Cheers,

Bob
 
BobNQ3X said:
Am I the only person who thinks this is overkill, given that there's a pound of flaked barley in there already?

I don't want to make you reconfigure your program, but I really don't think it's necessary to mash high, not with that much flaked barley in the grist. Flaked barley has a significant impact on body, mouthfeel and head retention.

That said, I don't like this grist for ESB anyway. [shrug]

I'm not sure what the original recipe was trying for, but it sure as hell wasn't English-style ESB.

Cheers,

Bob
Click to expand...

I dunno, I never use flaked Barley. But given the base recipe I really don't think 154 is overkill. It might be with the addition of Flaked Barley. But here is the contention. Flaked Barley is mainly for mouthfeel. Higher mash temperature is indeed for body, but also serves to increase malt sweetness which when balanced properly with hops is a wonderful combination, which is what I was getting at.

I'd lean more towards dropping the Flaked Barley and keeping the high temp.
 
I'd lean more towards dropping the Flaked Barley and keeping the high temp.
Click to expand...
Should I substitute anything for the Barley.

Also should I use a whirlflock tablet with this recipe?
 
rob897 said:
Should I substitute anything for the Barley.
Click to expand...

If you're going to drop the flaked barley - and I highly suggest you do ...

...just realized this is going to be a complete rewrite of the recipe. :) Like I wrote above, your original grist is totally off of what I consider a classic ESB grist. Here's what I'd do:

8lbs Maris Otter
1 lb 55L Crystal
0.5 lb Demerara Sugar

Mash @ 152 for 60 minutes

Bitter with whatever neutrally-flavored hops variety you've got sitting around, boil 90 minutes. Target 30 IBU. Add an ounce of EKG at 15 minutes. Dry-hop with another ounce of EKG after primary fermentation is complete.

That should get you an ESB of OG 1.055, with a pleasantly balanced 30 IBU and a nice Kent Goldings hops bouquet. Keeping the Maris Otter at 10 lbs puts you at ~1.064 OG, which means you'll have to up the bittering charge to keep it in balance; I don't care for ESB that strong, so I reduced the base malt proportion. I like to ferment this with Windsor, but you could use Nottingham, S-04, or a liquid yeast like Wyeast 1028 or White Labs WLP002.

The above recipe - both homebrewed and commercial versions - has won over many adherents.

Also should I use a whirlflock tablet with this recipe?
Click to expand...

I think all all-grain worts benefit from kettle finings. Whirlfloc is simply a convenient method of dosing with Irish Moss, which is the most traditional kettle fining. It certainly isn't going to hurt anything, and will provide a good deal of clarification help. By all means use it.

Cheers,

Bob
 
rob897 said:
Should I substitute anything for the Barley.

Also should I use a whirlflock tablet with this recipe?
Click to expand...

I never use clarifying agents. Well on occasion some Irish Moss but that's just because I bought it way back when and feel obligated to use it. I wouldn't personally use the Flaked Barley, but this is homebrewing. :D What I mean by that is while brewing 'to Style' is great and all, you are at the helm as a homebrewer. Where you take your ship is up to you.

If you want to brew a "true to style" ESB, you may wish to drop the Flaked Barley and use strictly English Hops.
 
What Bob and I are volleying about is that Windsor is notorious for finishing high. I use it in my Oatmeal Stout for that reason. I mostly use S-04 and it finishes lower, leaving a slightly drier beer. To preserve a little more of the body and Malt flavor, I mash higher.
 
Yarp. If you swear by Nottingham, for example, and it's your "house yeast", the solution to the problem of a less-attenuated beer is a more dextrinous mash profile. If you choose different yeasts, you can mash the same way every time and let the yeast define how much to leave in the beer.

Or you could really complicate things and go with a combination of both. ;)

Bob
 
Our intrepid OP, however, is using Wyeast 1098, which is the Whitbread dry strain. It is known for 75% attenuation and a dry finish. Mashing at 154° makes a lot of sense in this instance. Let's not scare to poor guy off by getting too esoteric this early in his HBT career. There's plenty of time for that.

Chad
 
Let's not scare to poor guy off by getting too esoteric this early in his HBT career.
Click to expand...
Exactly.... :) Feels like I just sat through a 2 day seminar all in 1 hour.

I appreciate the suggestions, but since I have all the current ingredients for the original recipe, I would like to stick as close to it as possible without losing the ESB style as some of you mentioned...

I will leave out the Flaked Barley and my hops are right where everyone agreed on. So should I still be mashing in at 154 for 60min based on this recipe or should I go a little lower?

Also does this style need to be put in a secondary fermenter or will it be good to go after the primary?
 
rob897 said:
Exactly.... :) Feels like I just sat through a 2 day seminar all in 1 hour.

I appreciate the suggestions, but since I have all the current ingredients for the original recipe, I would like to stick as close to it as possible without losing the ESB style as some of you mentioned...

I will leave out the Flaked Barley and my hops are right where everyone agreed on. So should I still be mashing in at 154 for 60min based on this recipe or should I go a little lower?

Also does this style need to be put in a secondary fermenter or will it be good to go after the primary?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I got a little carried away :D

154 is great for that yeast without the Flaked Barley is what I was getting at. If you were to leave in the Flaked Barley, you'd probably want to adjust by lowering your mash temperature. Then again if you want a super high mouthfeel/body I believe adding it in and mashing high would do that.
 
If you stay in primary for 7-10 days, you may want to use a secondary. If you prefer to leave your beer in the primary for 3 weeks, then a secondary shouldn't be necessary at all. I personally have started skipping secondary on pretty much all of my beers, and doing 21-28 day primary. The yeast kind of "cleans up" after itself if you give it time.
 
Chriso said:
If you stay in primary for 7-10 days, you may want to use a secondary. If you prefer to leave your beer in the primary for 3 weeks, then a secondary shouldn't be necessary at all. I personally have started skipping secondary on pretty much all of my beers, and doing 21-28 day primary. The yeast kind of "cleans up" after itself if you give it time.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the club :mug:
 
rob897 said:
Exactly.... :) Feels like I just sat through a 2 day seminar all in 1 hour.
Click to expand...

Sorry, dude! Sometimes the conversation goes places the OP never intends. It is the OP's inalienable right to slap us when we hijack your thread. ;)

I appreciate the suggestions, but since I have all the current ingredients for the original recipe, I would like to stick as close to it as possible without losing the ESB style as some of you mentioned...

I will leave out the Flaked Barley and my hops are right where everyone agreed on. So should I still be mashing in at 154 for 60min based on this recipe or should I go a little lower?
Click to expand...

154 is good.

Also does this style need to be put in a secondary fermenter or will it be good to go after the primary?
Click to expand...

Like Chriso wrote, it depends. You can let it stay in the primary, sure. You could rack to a secondary - I call them "clearing tank" - after the initial, vigorous ferment is complete (when you get three like gravity readings in a row). I like to add finings at that time to encourage the beer to clear star-bright.

Cheers,

Bob
 
zoebisch01 said:
Welcome to the club :mug:
Click to expand...
I was just a really quiet member, I've been in the club for a while :) I quit using secondaries back in, like, March or so. I had been using them till around then..... but I got really busy, and wound up letting my primaries all sit for 4 weeks.... When I racked them, I realized that they were a couple of my best brews yet. So I quit using a clearing stage, and just started kegging after 21 days. :p

My next project is to start experimenting with adding gelatin at the last 2 days of my 21 day primary. Then, let sit the remaining 2 days, let the proteins fall out, and then rack to keg. I'm hoping this results in a minor reduction in trub at the bottom of my kegs.
 

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