How to Constructively Criticize?

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hoptualBrew

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I spent the past few days taking the girlfriend out to a mini beach getaway & stopped in yesterday at a local "brewery" for a bite to eat and some drinks on the way back home.

When we showed up, the "brewery" was more of a sports bar with flat screens all around than a dedicated brewery. We sat down and I asked which of their offerings were on tap, to which I was told only 2/5 were available. I ordered their hefeweizen. It came out in a pint shaker, nearly as clear as a bud light which made me anything but good things. The beer was probably the worst representation of any style I have ever drank to date. I sent it back because it literally had no taste. I tried to explain in a nice way to the server that it just wasn't cutting it for a hefeweizen. After digging a little deeper to see who the brewmaster behind the scenes was, I was told he has traveled and brewed in San Diego and "knows what he's doing".

As a homebrewer, beer advocate & lover, and hopeful future professional brewer - I was actually mad when I walked out because of the idea that this "brewery" was putting out such horrid examples of the styles. Some poor beer drinker whose never had a good hefeweizen who drinks this as a first would probably not go back to the style to have quality examples like Paulaner, Weihenstephan, Hacker-Pschorr, etc..

So my question is, is how do you advocate for beer in examples like these without coming off as a pretentious beer snob?
 
My guess, there is no way to do it without coming off as a snob. The second you start saying anything about how a beer style should taste, smell, feel, etc., is the same second you'll be perceived as a snob. Heck, you might even be a bit of a snob if you care that much (I admit I have a bit of snobbery such as this), but it's alright. As long as you're not mad when you deliver it and you pose it in the form of questions (i.e. "Hey brewer, I know a lot of Hefs are hazy and have a big nose with such and such characteristics, but this one is so different. What were you shooting for?"), you shouldn't come off as an *******, which is what you really should avoid.
 
Or just be that guy "THIS is not a Hefe" Dont know what it is but not a Hefe! "You learn to brew in prison or something?" LOL Nah probly not the best route!
 
I agree with Krispy. Ask them what they were looking for in their interpretation of the style. Then, you could add something like "That's interesting. Not many brewers make traditionally hazy beers clear. But how you make a beer is not a law and experimentation is a good thing". Side note-- Had a Kona Weilua (sp?) wheat and it was clear as a whistle. Did not enjoy the taste of that one...
 
I never have trouble giving places feedback, good or bad. The server might not know the difference, but word could get back to the owner. Part of you thinks you should tell them in case they take it to heart and try to improve, but then you realize if they are serving beer that crappy they don't care to start with.

I traveled a lot this spring/summer and got to try quite a few different brewpubs. Half had great beer, a couple had serviceable but unremarkable beer, and a few had downright bad beer. I told the server at one place they shouldn't even be serving the beer they were brewing. Another case of a "part time" brewer. Just horribly disgusting, worse than any noob could possibly make.
 
The problem is that most people associate Hefeweizen with either Widmer or Pyramid breweries. As most of us know those "hefeweizens" are actually American Wheat style beers. The general population doesn't want to drink a traditional German Hefeweizen....too much actual taste going on.
 
I agree with Phundog.


Some people/places say "hefeweizen" when they really just mean "wheat". I am willing to bet what you had was an American Wheat.
 
Bud lite wheat is pretty clear. Have to remember to roll it prior to drinking.

Most wheat's I've had are hazy, even the American styled wheats. However, the yeast I feel is the big difference between a true Wiezen and a Wheat beer.
 
Personally I'd just not drink it and not return to the brewery. Your chances of getting someone receptive to your suggestions or criticism is probably slim.
 
The key is to look at it the same as you would want to hear it.

Talk directly to the one responsible for brewing it
Strike with a velvet hammer...don't just say "This is not a Hefe" or "This beer sucks"
While doing this ask questions that draw his intent out as well as what he personally thinks of the brew, some places you brew according to the owners recipe and have nearly no say in what or how it tastes and looks because that is what the owner wants.

Talking to the waitstaff about it gets you nowhere and makes you look like a snobby b***h
 
I had a long post but decided against it

Short and sweet on another perspective for constructive criticism

As a Brewmaster, I would politely humor someone on the criticism and then blow it off. If someone wants to know the reasoning behind it I will be happy to oblige but if you just want to tell me how to change the beer because it doesn't fit your style then it will politely fall on deaf ears. Unless someone is specifically asking for criticism in this industry, most don't need/want it.(Quality Control issues are always wanted) I honestly don't have an issue if someone comes in finds the beers aren't to their style and leave. I have found brewing as my creative expression, not everyone likes every piece of art.
 
I guess I would break criticism up into two categories:

If I get a beer that is bad, literally something wrong with it - bad lines, infected, undrinkable - I would (and have) told the waitstaff that there is something wrong with the beer and to take it back and get me something else. Simply no excuse for that. It would be no different than getting a dirty glass or silverware, or raw meat when you ordered well done.

Now, if it is just that I don't like the way they brewed a style - not hoppy enough IPA, too sweet on the brown ale, too light of a wheat beer, whatever. I guess I would not bring it up myself. Now, if the brewer or waitstaff asked for my input, I would tell them - "to be honest, it was not what I expected at all - way to light for my tastes - almost seemed like a light american lager and I was anticipating a richer, german hefeweizen based on the name/description. Nothing wrong with it as a light beer, just not what I thought it would be." Then maybe ask them about another of their selections and if they have something more to your liking.

If I did not like their styles/interpretations, I just would not go back. But, it is their brewing and they are under no obligation to brew "to style." If I don't like it, I don't go back.
 
I agree with Krispy. Ask them what they were looking for in their interpretation of the style. Then, you could add something like "That's interesting. Not many brewers make traditionally hazy beers clear. But how you make a beer is not a law and experimentation is a good thing". Side note-- Had a Kona Weilua (sp?) wheat and it was clear as a whistle. Did not enjoy the taste of that one...

Krystallweizen (sp?) is a legitimate beer to make...but if you're going for Hefe then not so much...

I've never had the Kona one, but SN's Old Chico Crystal Wheat is pretty damn good in my book.
 
If I did not like their styles/interpretations, I just would not go back. But, it is their brewing and they are under no obligation to brew "to style." If I don't like it, I don't go back.

It's one thing to have an interpretation of a style and another to miss label the style. I think this is a case of mislabeling the style. Hefe is cloudy. There are at least 2 wheat styles that I can think of off the top of my head that are not cloudy.
 
It's always worth it to double check that you actually got the beer you were expecting. There have been times I was poured a different beer from what I ordered, and sometimes the server just doesn't know the difference. Kegs can get hooked up to the wrong line, tap handles can get put on the wrong tap, etc.

There was another thread on here recently that discussed the proliferation of sub-par craft brew. Now that craft brewing is on such an upswing, there are a lot of people who want to get on that trend and not all of them are putting out the best beers. It could be that the owner of the establishment you visited was some investor who doesn't know much about beer and hired a brewer based on the "credential" of having traveled and brewed in San Diego. I loved that line, it's like: "I've been to Houston, I'm an astronaut!" In the end, if their local clientele likes their beer, they will last, if not, they will close down, and if they survive only because they fill a niche that no one else in that area does, just be glad you have other options!
 
Maybe it's somewhat of a misnomer, and it's actually an American Wheat. I don't know how, but my 50% 2-row/50% white wheat beer using Wyeast 1010 is the clearest beer I've ever seen. I've made it 3 times, and people think it's filtered. It is the color of BL (though much more flavor). I don't try to present it as a hefe though.
 
not sure of the exact description of the beer in question, but crystal clear and "no taste". i would feel cheated because it is not what is advertized. hefeweizen is not an obscure style among any place that has stuff beyond BMC. i find it very irritating when i am sold something that is not what it is claimed to be.

i find it very painful how quickly people resort to calling people "_____ snobs" when they simply have good taste. that's as long as they're able to argue a rough description of what something ought to be and taste like, rather than just "i don't like it, and i don't know why"
 
I will echo the sentiment that if there was something actually bad with the beer (skunky, dirty lines, etc.) I might say something. But if you just have a philosophical difference with the brewmaster on how you think a style should look/taste, I think you just politely drink your pint and move on.

There is a local brewery in my town that makes excellent quality beer. They just recently took home two medals at the GABF, etc. However most of their beers are more of a European/English style while I prefer an American/Northwest style. I personally don't like their IPA at all but I don't go and tell them that since they are in the heart of the Pacific Northwest they should brew a hop-forward IPA. I just let them do their thing, compliment their success and buy my IPA's from the place down the street.
 
My Bro-in-law took me into a micro-brew he is associated with. He built their bar, taps and other assorted construction related items. I was thinking what if I dont like anything? Well, here's what I did. I ordered 8 samples. I tasted each and every brew, some okay, some bad. Ordered the "okay" one. It was " - okay", but I think I reported is as "good". At least I know what to order next time. No harm, no foul.
 
Use a compliment sandwich. Start with something nice, then criticize, then end on something nice.
 
kaconga said:
Use a compliment sandwich. Start with something nice, then criticize, then end on something nice.

SWMBO uses this exact term, usually right after I haven't used it. When I do, though, it's gold.
 
Just give them an honestly brutal review on google maps and move on. If a "brewpub" really only has two of their own beers on tap, I don't get the impression they would even give a damn if Michael Jackson's ghost (Jeez, do I need to clarify which one?) made the critique.
 
Talking to the waitstaff about it gets you nowhere and makes you look like a snobby b***h


............and talking to the waitstaff about it BEFORE your food is served, could likely earn you some spit in your food. Sick but true.

:(
 
I'm just gonna throw this out there -

Is it possible they brought you the wrong beer? I mean, we all know servers never mess up an order.

I was in fort Collins a few months back, and ordered the Odell ipa. We don't get it much on tap in Denver, so I was psyched. Long story short, they gave me an easy street instead. Damn them! And in ft Collins, of all places.
 
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