hard lemonade problem

i tried the recipe for mikes hard lemonade on monday - 6 cans frozen lemonade concentrate,5 lbs sugar and 1 lb dry malt extract.
i put 1 can of lemonade in with the sugar and dme for the 15 minute boil to convert the sugar and added 2 teaspoons of gypsum to try to reduce the citric acid in the lemonade.
my og was 1.071 and i pitched a good starter of wyeast 1187.after using oxygen with an airstone for about 1 minute.
by tuesday there was no activity so i pitched a pack of lavlin 1118 yeast after hydrating it .
now its wednesday approx 50 hours after first pitching the ale yeast and 24 hrs since the lavlin - i still have no airlock activity
help!!!!!!!!!!

Hard lemonade has been my toughest ferment. I actually planned for it to be difficult, so what I did was this- I made a starter just out of some water and sugar and yeast, along with yeast nutrient. As it took off, I very gradually added some of the diluted lemonade and sugar mixture, using more sugar water than lemonade. When that got going, I added more and more lemonade mixture and sugar water, and it was a little less diluted each time. When that was well underway, I pitched that mixture into my primary with the rest of the lemonade and sugar water. I don't have my notes handy right now (they're in the home computer) but I'll look at that and see if anything else stands out. It's a bugger to get going, probably because of the high acid and low nutrients, along with a high s.g.

Lorena

i did add yeast nutrient that i forgot to mention in my first post.
i did a google search on hard lemonade and found some info that it could take up to 4 days for fermentation to start -
lorena - i guess i should start another yeast culture and slowly wean it up to the full concentration and repitch?
how about adding more gypsum to raise the ph?

Did yer concentrate have preservatives?

Just a guess, but with 1.071 OG and all that sugar, you're likely to wind up with a rather high ABV and not much residual sweetness unless your yeast strain dies off rather early (i.e., don't use champaigne yeast to ferment further). I have zero experience with this sort of thing, but my gut says you'd want some unfermentable sugars in there to cut the rather dry lemonade it looks like you're making.

I'm home now, and here's my notes and the recipe I used:


7 cans of lemonade concentrate
Sugar to an SG of 1.100 (1.5 pounds per gallon, more or less- see below)
water to 3 gallons
3 tsp yeast nutrient
3 tsp yeast energizer
3 crushed Campden tablets or 1/2 tsp K-meta
Wine yeast

Seems to me that I made 5 gallons of this, not three, so I must have used more lemonade, sugar and water. I used Cotes de Blanc yeast, and it fermented completely dry. This was WAY too tart for me, but my husband liked it so I bottled 1/2 and sweetened half. I sorbated/sulfited and then sweetened with sugar syrup. Yes, I think you should start a new starter, gradually making it more and more acidic so you don't traumatize the poor yeast! I don't know about gypsum as I've never used it- I just always use my tap water for everything.

By the way, this molly-coddling was well worth it. Everyone loves this hard lemonade.

Here's my notes- if they're incomprehensible, let me know and I'll try to figure it out:
What I did on 5/6/06:
In 1/4 or so warm water, sprinkled cotes de blanc yeast. Added yeast nutrient. When looking and smelling yeasty, I added some sugar water and lemonade mixture. All the sugar was disolved in about 1/3 of the water, with a can of lemonade mixed in. I added 1/4 c of this mixture to my yeast mix, and then added some more water and lemonade to the primary so that about ½ the water or less is in the primary with all of the sugar and 1/3 of the cans of lemonade. I took some of this out of the primary and put it in a measuring cup, and I’ll gradually add that to the yeast. I’ll add the rest of the cans of the thawed lemonade and the rest of the water tomorrow. S.g is 1.080, at the start after all ingredients are added. On 5/13/06, s.g. is 1.064, on 5/18/06 s.g. is 1.046. It hasn’t changed much the last few days, so I racked it into 5 gal carboy. Not much sediment. It is fermenting well, room is 63 degrees. On 5/28.06- siphoned some off and drank. Very good, but still fermenting as well. Did not check s.g. On 6/3- racked into 3 gallon carboy, drank the rest. (some sweetened, some not. s.g. is .990)

g cretin - no preservatives listed - just citric acid which i think is the problem

lorenae -thanks for the quick and comprehensive answer - i bought more yeast and am starting a new starter culture which i will bring up to the acid level of the 5 gallons over the next day or so.
thanks all - now as long as my sanitation was good i can hopefully get this thing fermenting
i am planning on adding lactose after fermentation to bring back the sweetness

duh!!
just read the can of lemonade again
last ingredient i didn't see the first time is sodium citrate
by definition it can be used as a flavouring in lemonade or a preservative!
is my batch ruined?

Maybe try to boil it out? I would go presevative free next time to be safe.

I don't think the preservative is the problem- mine had some of that, too. Try the monster starter, gradually acclimating the mixture to the acidity of the lemonade and I think it'll be fine.

Good luck,
Lorena

i made a big starter last night - began with just sugar water and added about a tablespoon of frozen lemonade concentrate each hour once it was bubbling.
pitched it to the primary about an hour ago.
i am now getting a bubble every 2 minutes and am seeing the beginnings of krausen!
thanks for the help from all - especially lorenae - your notes prevented me from dumping my batch

Glad to hear that! Once you have it going well, it'll be a piece of cake. I did stir often, to keep the oxygen in it, while it was fermenting vigorously. Then, I moved it to a carboy under airlock.

Again, all this "babying" is so worth it! It was a favorite summer drink for all my family and friends.

Glad to help,
Lorena

I too made some of this lemonade, but my proublem was not the same as yours.
Mine started within two hours of pitiching, I just want to know, will it ever finish?
It has been fermenting now two and a half weeks, still bubling, still has a layer of krysen. How long does this normally take to finish? (I want to try it)

One big differance noted, I only used two pounds of sugar insted of the recomended five pounds. And after reading the replys it seems the sugar was to boost the gravity and not to make the lemonade sweet, or did i miss something here?

Jim

I think the hard lemonade acts more like a wine- I even used wine yeast. In that way, it's much slower to ferment. The sugar was twofold- yes, for the alcohol, but also for residual sweetness. I did ferment mine totally dry, but drank about 1/2 out of the secondary while still fermenting from 1.020 to .990! (I moved it from a 5gallon carboy to a 3 gallon while racking, and keep the rest in a pitcher or two in the fridge to drink) I think mine took about 3-4 weeks to ferment, and about 2 to clear. I racked it once or twice, I believe. I bottled it in plastic soda bottles.

Mine ended about 8% alcohol, which was my goal. Enough alcohol to keep the "nasties" away, but less than wine. If you want to taste some, take a sample with your wine thief, take a s.g., and then drink the sample! That'll tell you how much more you need to go. You might be happy stopping at a sweeter place, except with only 2 pounds of sugar, you'll have very low a.b.v. Let me know how yours turned out- I love this stuff!

Lorena

Lorena,

Thanks for the advise, I'll take a sample tonight, my biggest fear is it will be good and i'll end up doing the same thing you did, drink half before it's finished.
I'll let you know how it taste and the gravity.
Have you ever tried to carbonate this stuff? I don't bottle so i am going to rack it into a soda keg, that's why i was wondering.

Jim

Lorena,

Well my biggest fear didn't come to pass, this stuff is "way sour", big time. And the gravity is a 9.

I was wondering, is it too late to mix up some more sugar and water and add that to the fermenter?

Jim

Lorena,

Could you post a complete 5 gallon recipe?

Cheers,

knewshound

I just got back from out of town, so I'm sorry I haven't posted yet. We were out cruising in my friend's "big boat" on Lake Superior and having a few homebrews. What a great time!

Here's the original recipe:
hard lemonade . . 5 gallons

lemonade concentrate for 5 gallons
5 lbs sugar
champagne yeast

dissolve the sugar in water, mix up the lemonade, add the champagne yeast and let it go .

This really wasn't very complete, so I used this one and scaled it to 5 gallons, by mixing up frozen lemonade, water and sugar to 5 gallons using this as a guideline:

(This recipe yields 3 gallons of Hard Lemonade)

7 cans of lemonade concentrate ( I used 10 cans)
Sugar to an SG of 1.100 (1.5 pounds per gallon, more or less)
water to 3 gallons (I filled to 5)
3 tsp yeast nutrient (I used 5)
3 tsp yeast energizer (I used 5)
3 crushed Campden tablets or 1/2 tsp K-meta (again, 5 crushed campden)
Wine yeast (Cotes de blanc)

And here are my notes:

What I did on 5/6/06:
In 1/4 or so warm water, sprinkled cotes de blanc yeast. Added some yeast nutrient. When looking and smelling yeasty, I added some sugar water and lemonade mixture. All the sugar was disolved in about 1/3 of the water, with a can of lemonade mixed in. I added 1/4 c of this mixture to my yeast mix, and then added some more water and lemonade to the primary so that about ½ the water or less is in the primary with all of the sugar and 1/3 of the cans of lemonade. I took some of this out of the primary and put it in a measuring cup, and I’ll gradually add that to the yeast. I’ll add the rest of the cans of the thawed lemonade and the rest of the water tomorrow. S.g is 1.080, at the start after all ingredients are added.

If you need help translating this, I'll be glad to help out.

Jim, it is not too late to add sugar! But, remember, that as soon as you add sugar, you'll restart fermentation. So, if you have sorbate and metasulfite, and that first to stabilize. Then mix 2 cups sugar to 1 cup water and boil until dissolved and add that a little at a time to a small sample of your lemonade. When it tastes right, take the s.g. and see where it is. Then, sweeten the whole batch to that s.g. I did prefer mine sweetened, about to 1.020 if I remember correctly.

Here is the actual thread where I found it- It's very long but helpful: http://www.winepress.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=1156&hl=

Carbonated hard lemonade is good! I made mine still, but I like both. let me know if you need any more suggestions.

Lorena

Lorena,

The boat trip sounds great, I've had a boat in the family from the time i was born. And i can be happy in any kind of boat, the joy (for me anyway) is to be on the water.

I didn't have any additives to stop the fermentation, what i did was mix up the other 3 lbs. of sugar and dump it in. So now i guess i'll keep checking and tasting until it is right. Next time i do this i'll stick to the recipe.

Thanks for all your helpful advise, Jim

Instead of sugar I assume you can use malt, right? or will that give an off flavor?

- WW

WW-
I would think you could use malt- but I never have. I just fermented lemonade. It makes sense that malt would work. It would probably change the flavor- but isn't Mikes Hard Lemonade a "malt beverage"? Mine tastes like lemonade with a kick- not at all "malty". But I bet that malt would give it body and it'd be pretty good.

Jim,
You'll probably restart fermentation with the sugar addition, depending on the yeast you used. You're also kicking up the alcohol content! But that's ok- it'll be a little bubbly and sweeter, so it'll be good. Just don't bottle it tightly or you'll have bottle bombs. You could put it in a pitcher in the fridge when it's right, and that'll slow fermentation and give you a cold drink. I bottled mine in plastic soda bottles. Since it's not around very long, and the alcohol content was pretty high, you probably don't have to worry too much about oxidation and too much headspace in your container. I'd say- just drink how you want, when you want. If you are going to bottle it sweetened, though, you have to sorbate and sulfite. Once fermentation starts, it doesn't seem to want to quit on its own!

Lorena

Lorena,

I checked the fermenter this morning and the activiety seems to be picking up. I will be going to the LHBS this week so i'll pickup something to stop the fermentation when the time is right.

once again, thanks, Jim

WW,

the recipe i used called for a pound of dme for a 5gal batch. And 5 lbs of sugar.

Jim

Ok, I'm reviving this one. I plan to make a hard lemonade for the wife. I am basically following Yooper Chick's recipe, but I have a few questions. I plan to baby the yeast like you did, but my question is about the campden tabs and the sorbate. Am I correct in assuming the campden tabs go in during the initial mixing of the ingredients, and the sorbate is added at the end of the fermenation? I deffinately want to sweeten it, SWMBO does not like dry wine or beer, more of an expensive fufu drink or wine cooler drinker. So, after adding the sorbate, I can sweeten with sugar and if needed add more lemonade mix, correct? I plan to bottle it in plastic soda bottles and I may keg some of it.
Sanitation, I know to sanitize the fermentor, any untinsils, and I'll boil the water that the yeast (dry) goes in (after cooling). What about the rest of the water or the lemonade mix?

Thanks

Yooper Chick said:

WW-
I would think you could use malt- but I never have. I just fermented lemonade. It makes sense that malt would work. It would probably change the flavor- but isn't Mikes Hard Lemonade a "malt beverage"? Mine tastes like lemonade with a kick- not at all "malty". But I bet that malt would give it body and it'd be pretty good.

Click to expand...

I've been researching this for a while now and even talke to some of the Mikes Brewery guys and think I finaly got this figured out . . .

According to the brewery guys it's a malt base + some booze
I'm thinking make a unhopped 2row beer and add some Limoncello to falvor it.
I'm also thinking your going to have to use camden tablets to kill off the yeast befor bottling or you looking at some serious guchers if not bottle bombs.

As soon as I can get my hands on some growlers gonna make a 1 gallon test batch and I'll post the results

JnJ said:

Ok, I'm reviving this one. I plan to make a hard lemonade for the wife. I am basically following Yooper Chick's recipe, but I have a few questions. I plan to baby the yeast like you did, but my question is about the campden tabs and the sorbate. Am I correct in assuming the campden tabs go in during the initial mixing of the ingredients, and the sorbate is added at the end of the fermenation? I deffinately want to sweeten it, SWMBO does not like dry wine or beer, more of an expensive fufu drink or wine cooler drinker. So, after adding the sorbate, I can sweeten with sugar and if needed add more lemonade mix, correct? I plan to bottle it in plastic soda bottles and I may keg some of it.
Sanitation, I know to sanitize the fermentor, any untinsils, and I'll boil the water that the yeast (dry) goes in (after cooling). What about the rest of the water or the lemonade mix?

Thanks

Click to expand...

You're right about the sorbate and campden. That's exactly what I did. You can sweeten after sorbating if you want either by sugar (make a syrup of sugar and water, for easier mixing) or by more lemonade concentrate. If you use sorbate, make sure you use campden tablets, too, at the same time when bottling. Sorbate works better in the presence of sulfites, and it prevents a geranium smell.

As far as sanitation, no reason to boil any water at all, since you're using campden tablets. Just thaw the lemonade and dump into the water and stir, stir, stir.

I'd love to hear how yours comes out, Pumbaa. I think a malt lemonade beverage would be great!

i use 1 lb dry malt extract in mine.
will be starting a 4th batch tomorrow.
i have a friend who loves it and keeps buying me the ingredients to make it for him

the last batch didn't get as fizzy as the first but still tastes fine

in the glass

Yooper Chick said:

You're right about the sorbate and campden. That's exactly what I did. You can sweeten after sorbating if you want either by sugar (make a syrup of sugar and water, for easier mixing) or by more lemonade concentrate. If you use sorbate, make sure you use campden tablets, too, at the same time when bottling. Sorbate works better in the presence of sulfites, and it prevents a geranium smell.

As far as sanitation, no reason to boil any water at all, since you're using campden tablets. Just thaw the lemonade and dump into the water and stir, stir, stir.

I'd love to hear how yours comes out, Pumbaa. I think a malt lemonade beverage would be great!

Click to expand...

Thanks, just to clarify, camden tablets when first mixed, or after fermentation?

Ok, put it together yesterday, and it's in the primary now. No acttivity yet. Maybe I didn't baby the yeast enough. I'll rouse it tonight if no action.

Rod,

Since you hav made a few batches of this I was wondering if the recipie from the orginal post is the one that you have settled on? Do a lot of people like this or just one? I am looking for something other than beer to have around for non beer drinkers.

Mike

Well I finely bottled mine. It turned out very good. It was very dry and bitter, but we added a can of pink lemonade and a bunch of sugar to sweeten it up. I ended up with 11% ABV.

I noticed that postings here are discussing how to sweeten it. I added Lactose so that I can add priming sugar to carbonate in the bottles as normal. Of course, if your lactose intolerant that won't work well!! I also started with fresh lemons and a few limes with 6 .lbs of corn sugar and malto-dextrin for body. The primary went 8 days and it was dry and low on lemon taste. I added two cans of concentrate and a little more lactose and it is still bubbling away in the secondary (only been a week in secondary). I didn't use malt and I didn't have any trouble with primary fermentation starting. I did add yeast nutrient and was using SAFale dry yeast. Secondary fermentation is took off right after the airlock was added!

YooperBrew said:

Hard lemonade has been my toughest ferment. I actually planned for it to be difficult, so what I did was this- I made a starter just out of some water and sugar and yeast, along with yeast nutrient. As it took off, I very gradually added some of the diluted lemonade and sugar mixture, using more sugar water than lemonade. When that got going, I added more and more lemonade mixture and sugar water, and it was a little less diluted each time. When that was well underway, I pitched that mixture into my primary with the rest of the lemonade and sugar water. I don't have my notes handy right now (they're in the home computer) but I'll look at that and see if anything else stands out. It's a bugger to get going, probably because of the high acid and low nutrients, along with a high s.g.

Lorena

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Thanks! I used this information to get my cranberry hard lemonade started fermenting with the beer yeast (wyeast 1056). I used about 1/4 cup of corn sugar with about 200 ml of water. Then I used a turkey baster and added about 2 full basters of the hcl mixture, 1/2 tsp yeast nutrient and pitched my yeast. After about 30 mins it started fermenting, so I added a few more basters full of the hcl mixture and waited for that to show signs of fermentation again.I did this about 3 more times before I felt I was ready to pitch it to my jug. It took off within 1 hour.:rockin:

I am now reviving this. Yooper, what do you think about adding 5 or 6 packages of crystal light lemonade mix as a back sweetener? It would allow the whole thing to finish it's ferment and then you could bottle as well as keg without worries of bottle bombs.

I just mixed up a batch of hard lemonade somewhere along the lines of the forementioned recipes... Here is what I did....

9 cans lemonade concentrate
4.5 gallons water
.5 gallons organic strawberry lemonade
1.5 pounds dextrose
1 pound light DME

Made a starter of Munton's Gold dry yeast w/ 2 cups light DME... Let that settle out (24 hours), added 1/4 cup of the mixed lemonade, let that stand 24 hours and pitched to the pail....

OG was somewhere around 1.060... Currently sitting in the 'brew closet' @ around 70*... See how the fermentation is progressing tomorrow...

Any ideas / suggestions / comments?

OK I tried this recipe but subsituted limeade concentrate for lemonade concentrate. I made a healthy starter with Cotes de Blanc and pitched. airlock was bubbling within 12 hours and has been fermenting for almost three weeks. My question is regarding the use of sorbate and/or campden to halt fermentation as I am planning to back sweeten with more concentrate and sugar water or possibley roses lime juice. How long do I need to wait after adding the sorbate and campden to allow it to kill the yeast before back sweetening and bottling ???

scsmith64 said:

OK I tried this recipe but subsituted limeade concentrate for lemonade concentrate. I made a healthy starter with Cotes de Blanc and pitched. airlock was bubbling within 12 hours and has been fermenting for almost three weeks. My question is regarding the use of sorbate and/or campden to halt fermentation as I am planning to back sweeten with more concentrate and sugar water or possibley roses lime juice. How long do I need to wait after adding the sorbate and campden to allow it to kill the yeast before back sweetening and bottling ???

Click to expand...

Wait until fermentation is completely finished, and then stabilize it. I'd wait about 3-5 days after that before sweetening. Then I'd wait a few more days just to make sure it's really not going to stop up again!

Yooper

Thank you for the info. I read I should use a half tsp of sorbate per gal and 1 campden tablet per gal also does that sound right??

scsmith64 said:

Yooper

Thank you for the info. I read I should use a half tsp of sorbate per gal and 1 campden tablet per gal also does that sound right??

Click to expand...

Yes, that does sound about right!

You can boil a little water in the microwave to help dissolve the campden tablets, and then add the sorbate to that. Put that in your carboy, then rack the lemonade into it.