BIAB Brewing (with pics)

Yep. BIAB is great. A few obstacles to overcome. Biggest ones are having sufficient volume and dealing with pulling and squeezing the bag. Most recently I have done the holes in a bucket routine but my drilled bucket sits nicely in another bucket with space for wort underneath. So, I just lift the bag into the bucket, squeeze by pressing. Set aside and dump the wort into the pot. If I have to little space in my pot for everything to mash, I leave out some of the water during the mash and then sparge right through the grain in the drilled bucket. Works great.

Now mash on temp is a whole other story.....

This is the way I get the last few drops out of my grain.

Brewitt said:

Yep. BIAB is great. A few obstacles to overcome. Biggest ones are having sufficient volume and dealing with pulling and squeezing the bag. Most recently I have done the holes in a bucket routine but my drilled bucket sits nicely in another bucket with space for wort underneath. So, I just lift the bag into the bucket, squeeze by pressing. Set aside and dump the wort into the pot. If I have to little space in my pot for everything to mash, I leave out some of the water during the mash and then sparge right through the grain in the drilled bucket. Works great.

Now mash on temp is a whole other story.....

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If you mash in a separate vessel, you're going to lose temperature from transferring on top of the equalized temp from the grains and strike water. I lose an extra 4-5F when I transfer from my kettle to the cooler.

If I sparge in a separate 5 gallon pot, how much water should I use for it? Should it be heated to 170? Is there a calculator that will help me hit my mash temp with a volume that isn't full volume biab? I have been using the online tools for my brewing.

It seems like this would be an improvement to the process.

If I do this, should I heat the mashed grain to 170 for mash out before the sparge?

C-Rider said:

This is the way I get the last few drops out of my grain.

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Barefoot brewing. Love it!

weeple2000 said:

If I sparge in a separate 5 gallon pot, how much water should I use for it? Should it be heated to 170? Is there a calculator that will help me hit my mash temp with a volume that isn't full volume biab? I have been using the online tools for my brewing.

It seems like this would be an improvement to the process.

If I do this, should I heat the mashed grain to 170 for mash out before the sparge?

Click to expand...

its not really an improvement to the process unless you can't do full volume mashing due to pot size limitations. it's just another pot to clean out after you're done. as far as tools to determine strike temps.. most tools out there allow for the amount of water used to be included. If you have an android based phone check out Brewzor pro (its free). the strike tool in there works great. it allows for your input of water volume, grain weight and grain temp as well as desired mash temp.. fairly accurate too.

Mysticmead said:

its not really an improvement to the process unless you can't do full volume mashing due to pot size limitations. it's just another pot to clean out after you're done. as far as tools to determine strike temps.. most tools out there allow for the amount of water used to be included. If you have an android based phone check out Brewzor pro (its free). the strike tool in there works great. it allows for your input of water volume, grain weight and grain temp as well as desired mash temp.. fairly accurate too.

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How about for higher gravities? Like, say I'm mashing 16 lbs of grain in an 11 gallon pot. Our if it was even more gain than that...

I've only done a couple biab's so I'm looking for advice, the second attempt I took better records but didn't break 60% efficiency for a 16 lb grain bill. I also forgot to heat for mash out.

Thanks for the app advice, I have android.

I think for higher grain bills, you really need to sparge. Too many residual sugars remain in the grain. At least that's been my experience. Don't mash with as much water, then heat water on the side to 168-170 & sparge until at your expected pre boil volume.

weeple2000 said:

How about for higher gravities? Like, say I'm mashing 16 lbs of grain in an 11 gallon pot. Our if it was even more gain than that...

I've only done a couple biab's so I'm looking for advice, the second attempt I took better records but didn't break 60% efficiency for a 16 lb grain bill. I also forgot to heat for mash out.

Thanks for the app advice, I have android.

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crush the grains extra fine. I have my barley crusher set to .034 (factory is .039) and for a large grain bill I run it through twice. mash it for 90 and do a mash out. Then squeeze the bag for all the sweet wort. doing that I still break 70% on larger grain bills.

that said its really up to you and how you do with your equipment. if you want to do a dunk sparge or even pour some hot water through the grains its up to you. if doing that I would hold 2-3 gallons back for that purpose (maybe even have some extra hot water on hand just in case you need to add more to reach your boil volume)

Mysticmead said:

its not really an improvement to the process unless you can't do full volume mashing due to pot size limitations. it's just another pot to clean out after you're done. as far as tools to determine strike temps.. most tools out there allow for the amount of water used to be included. If you have an android based phone check out Brewzor pro (its free). the strike tool in there works great. it allows for your input of water volume, grain weight and grain temp as well as desired mash temp.. fairly accurate too.

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This is my problem. I only have a 7.5 gal. kettle and in my first attempt at BIAB, not only did I not have my grains double milled (found out after the fact that this is recommended) but I was told to just top off my fermenter with tap water to get my desired 5 gal. The result was a very weak and watered down version of the beer I was hoping to brew.

I have since learned that double milling is a must and I have also come across a 5 gal. kettle that I am going to use to sparge with. I'm going to mash in about 6.5 gal of water in my larger kettle just like I did in my first batch, and then I'm going to go ahead and sparge the grains in about 3 gal. of water in the 5 gal. kettle and then combine the two back into the 7.5 gal kettle for the boil and see how that turns out.

MMJfan said:

This is my problem. I only have a 7.5 gal. kettle and in my first attempt at BIAB, not only did I not have my grains double milled (found out after the fact that this is recommended) but I was told to just top off my fermenter with tap water to get my desired 5 gal. The result was a very weak and watered down version of the beer I was hoping to brew.

I have since learned that double milling is a must and I have also come across a 5 gal. kettle that I am going to use to sparge with. I'm going to mash in about 6.5 gal of water in my larger kettle just like I did in my first batch, and then I'm going to go ahead and sparge the grains in about 3 gal. of water in the 5 gal. kettle and then combine the two back into the 7.5 gal kettle for the boil and see how that turns out.

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that should work out a lot better than just topping off

Halbrust said:

Barefoot brewing. Love it!

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Isn't that the only way to brew?

MMJfan said:

Isn't that the only way to brew?

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not in Michigan it isn't!

Well, I'm from Ohio. Barefoot outdoors in the summer. Barefoot indoors in the winter...

Hello, I just did my first BIAB thanks to this thread, I have to say it was really pretty easy, not much different than doing the extract brews with steeping grains that I have been doing, other than having 2 pots on the stove, i did a dunk sparge in the second pot, worked great.

This was a very enjoyable brewing day, Thanks for the BIAB thread.

I just read a page back, That its important to double mill my grains when doing BIAB, How important is this to do? and how fine of a crush should I be doing/looking for?
I just got a MM2-2.0 just to start doing BIABs and set the gap at .44 thou, but I only ran my grains through it once, because the crush looked good.

Cheers

WileECoyote said:

Hello, I just did my first BIAB thanks to this thread, I have to say it was really pretty easy, not much different than doing the extract brews with steeping grains that I have been doing, other than having 2 pots on the stove, i did a dunk sparge in the second pot, worked great.

This was a very enjoyable brewing day, Thanks for the BIAB thread.

I just read a page back, That its important to double mill my grains when doing BIAB, How important is this to do? and how fine of a crush should I be doing/looking for?
I just got a MM2-2.0 just to start doing BIABs and set the gap at .44 thou, but I only ran my grains through it once, because the crush looked good.

Cheers

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I don't think it's necessary to double mill if you are crushing the grains yourself because you can adjust your mill to a finer crush than you would get at a LHBS. I think the double milling is recommended for those who don't have their own grain mill and get their grains crushed at a LHBS.

MMJfan said:

I don't think it's necessary to double mill if you are crushing the grains yourself because you can adjust your mill to a finer crush than you would get at a LHBS. I think the double milling is recommended for those who don't have their own grain mill and get their grains crushed at a LHBS.

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I disagree with this (the joys of homebrewing! ) I use the standard LHBS grind and still manage to get 75%+ efficiency pretty much every time. If I do a low-gravity brew I can count on mid-to-upper 80's. To me, the primary factors seem to be mashing out and squeezing the bag. I'm a little scared to see what my efficiency would be with a finer grind!

as long as every kernel is crushed. remember with biab you can crush very fine which gives better efficiency

I'll ask this here, since it seems to be the local repository of BIAB knowledge, and I haven't been able to find anything. I'm getting ready to do my first BIAB batch soon and was wondering, what ratio of water to grain do most people use for BIAB? 1.0-2.0 qt / lb is of course the recommended range for AG brewing, but it sounds like most people who aren't sparging are using a much thinner mash than this?

I ask because I would think (just from Michaelis–Menten kinetics) that efficiency would be reduced at extreme thinness (unless mashing for much longer), since the substrate concentration is reduced (and so the rate of conversion is reduced).

SiriusStarr said:

what ratio of water to grain do most people use for BIAB? 1.0-2.0 qt / lb is of course the recommended range for AG brewing, but it sounds like most people who aren't sparging are using a much thinner mash than this?

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I think most people with a large enough kettle capacity tend to mash with full volume. I, for example, use about 8 gallons (depending on the brew), mash-out and squeeze the bag. I generally get about 75%+ efficiency.

SiriusStarr said:

I'll ask this here, since it seems to be the local repository of BIAB knowledge, and I haven't been able to find anything. I'm getting ready to do my first BIAB batch soon and was wondering, what ratio of water to grain do most people use for BIAB? 1.0-2.0 qt / lb is of course the recommended range for AG brewing, but it sounds like most people who aren't sparging are using a much thinner mash than this?

I ask because I would think (just from Michaelis–Menten kinetics) that efficiency would be reduced at extreme thinness (unless mashing for much longer), since the substrate concentration is reduced (and so the rate of conversion is reduced).

Click to expand...

eulipion2 said:

I think most people with a large enough kettle capacity tend to mash with full volume. I, for example, use about 8 gallons (depending on the brew), mash-out and squeeze the bag. I generally get about 75%+ efficiency.

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yeah... what eulipion2 said.

to determine water needed use batch size + absorption + boil off +trub loss = water needed.
to determine absorption use weight of grains * .066 = absorption.

of course the water absorbed can be higher or lower depending on how much you squeeze the bag. don't worry about tannin extraction from squeezing.. that myth has been busted a while ago.

SiriusStarr said:

I'll ask this here, since it seems to be the local repository of BIAB knowledge, and I haven't been able to find anything. I'm getting ready to do my first BIAB batch soon and was wondering, what ratio of water to grain do most people use for BIAB? 1.0-2.0 qt / lb is of course the recommended range for AG brewing, but it sounds like most people who aren't sparging are using a much thinner mash than this?

I ask because I would think (just from Michaelis–Menten kinetics) that efficiency would be reduced at extreme thinness (unless mashing for much longer), since the substrate concentration is reduced (and so the rate of conversion is reduced).

Click to expand...

Normal (full-volume no-sparge BIAB with mashout and squeeze the bag) batch for me is @ 12lb grain and @ 8.5 gallons water, that's almost 3 qts/lb and I get a consistent 82-83% efficiency.

Instead of taking all the scientific theories and advice from non-BIAB brewers as gospel, I'd suggest trying it for yourself and drawing your own conclusions.

SiriusStarr said:

I'll ask this here, since it seems to be the local repository of BIAB knowledge, and I haven't been able to find anything. I'm getting ready to do my first BIAB batch soon and was wondering, what ratio of water to grain do most people use for BIAB? 1.0-2.0 qt / lb is of course the recommended range for AG brewing, but it sounds like most people who aren't sparging are using a much thinner mash than this?

I ask because I would think (just from Michaelis–Menten kinetics) that efficiency would be reduced at extreme thinness (unless mashing for much longer), since the substrate concentration is reduced (and so the rate of conversion is reduced).

Click to expand...

Most conversation is done within the first 20-30 minutes of the mash. So mashing for a full hour accounts for any additional time needed with BIAB.

I'm also mashing appr. 3 qt/lb, 60 min + 10 min mashout. And exta few mins for mini sparging, dunk sparge, squeezing the bag - if needed etc while wort is going up to the boil.
So ratio 2,5.- 3 qt/lb is pretty common among the biabers. As previous post said, conversion is / should be done in first half hour. Experiment and check it yourself with iodine. No bother about density of the solution, check new(october) BYO and some experiments results at biabrewer.info.

eulipion2 said:

I think most people with a large enough kettle capacity tend to mash with full volume. I, for example, use about 8 gallons (depending on the brew), mash-out and squeeze the bag. I generally get about 75%+ efficiency.

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So say 32qt, that's probably 2.0-3.2 qt / lb ish (10 to 16 lbs of grain for a 5 gallon batch) with no notable loss of efficiency.

I have an 8 gallon brew kettle (bought it before I knew about BIAB, grr) and equivalently sized bag, so I'm right on the edge of having to do partial mash (for stronger beers). Do people find that their BIAB efficiency is reduced with thicker mashes (just thinking it's more likely to be retained in the grain without sparging)? A mash-out would be a must, of course. My concern is not having enough pre-boil volume; I'll have to run the numbers.

EDIT: Sorry, forum glitched for me and didn't show the mass of other replies... I suppose since most of the enzymatic action occurs early on in the mash, the full hour should take care of any slightly decreased rate.

I have heard anecdotal evidence from other BIAB'ers that a thicker mash (usually a necessity when doing big beers) does result in a lowered efficiency but as I have not tested this myself I cannot say for sure. Perhaps some BIAB'ers that have experience doing high gravity beers can chime in here?

thughes said:

I have heard anecdotal evidence from other BIAB'ers that a thicker mash (usually a necessity when doing big beers) does result in a lowered efficiency but as I have not tested this myself I cannot say for sure. Perhaps some BIAB'ers that have experience doing high gravity beers can chime in here?

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This wouldn't surprise me, since I think the reason you can get away with no sparge with BIAB is because the mash is so thin.

I'm thinking the best option at this point for me is to mash up to ~7-8 lbs and add DME as needed for higher gravity beers. 8 lb @ 3.0 qt/lb = 6 gallon, which should be about the max in my 8 gallon pot (including the grain volume), keeping in mind that I'll need enough pre-boil volume.

About the highest I've tried so far has been about 1.070 with about 74% efficiency. If I do smaller beers in the 1.030's I tend to get in the mid- to upper-80's. I've got a couple "to be brewed" beers in my sig, and once I get those under my belt I'll let you know how my efficiency is on big beers.

eulipion2 said:

About the highest I've tried so far has been about 1.070 with about 74% efficiency. If I do smaller beers in the 1.030's I tend to get in the mid- to upper-80's. I've got a couple "to be brewed" beers in my sig, and once I get those under my belt I'll let you know how my efficiency is on big beers.

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Oh man, a Three Philosophers clone... I think I'm gonna need a sample bottle to confirm your efficiency.

if you have a smaller pot... just sparge by either dunking (think tea bag) or by pouring hot water through the grains as the bag sit over the kettle. just reduce the full volume of water by 2-3 gallons.. mash and then sparge. it's still BIAB just not full volume.

Mysticmead said:

if you have a smaller pot... just sparge by either dunking (think tea bag) or by pouring hot water through the grains as the bag sit over the kettle. just reduce the full volume of water by 2-3 gallons.. mash and then sparge. it's still BIAB just not full volume.

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Was considering it, just wondering what kind of efficiency loss one would get from this; I don't have a second pot large enough to do the teabag sparge in, so I'd have to pour.

SiriusStarr said:

Was considering it, just wondering what kind of efficiency loss one would get from this; I don't have a second pot large enough to do the teabag sparge in, so I'd have to pour.

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if you pour slowly, and squeeze the hell out of the bag when done, you should lose very little. just plan the recipe on 70%. if you get better YAY!! if lower, you didn't crush finer and/or squeeze enough

SiriusStarr said:

Was considering it, just wondering what kind of efficiency loss one would get from this; I don't have a second pot large enough to do the teabag sparge in, so I'd have to pour.

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How big of a pot would I need for tea bag sparging? Is 5 gallons too small?

weeple2000 said:

How big of a pot would I need for tea bag sparging? Is 5 gallons too small?

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On second thought, could I use my bucket if my pot is too small?

5 gallon would work... or the bucket..

Did my second BIAB today, it went great. I only lost about 2 degrees in the 60 minute mash. Did a mash out this time as well. Looking forward to many more BIAB brews.

FYI, posted in another forum as part of a research project on mashout vs no mashout, below are my gravity numbers taken at regular intervals over the duration of a standard no-sparge mash. I picked up @ 4 gravity points with my mashout.

Notes:
-pure BIAB (full volume, no sparge)
-gravity reading taken with a refractometer, each sample was drawn into a pipette and pipette cooled with tap water
-refractometer reads in brix, I used Sean Terrill's calculator to convert the gravity readings

Here you go:

15 minutes: 7.4 brix/1.0282 (mash temp 154F)
30 minutes: 7.8 brix/1.0298 (mash temp 154F)
45 minutes: 8.6 brix/1.0329 (mash temp 154F)
60 minutes: 10.0 brix/1.0384 (mash temp 152F)
75 minutes: 10.5 brix/1.0404 (mash temp 150F)

I then ramped temp up to mashout (168F) over 15 minutes:

90 minutes: 11.2 brix/1.0432 (mash temp 168F)

I let it sit at mashout temp for 15 minutes:

105 minutes: 11.4 brix/1.0440 (mash temp 167F)

Pull bag and squeeze:

pre-boil: 11.5 brix/1.0444 (mash temp N/A)

So, it's only one set of data but it looks like the squeeze is a total waste of time other than getting my pre-boil volume where it needs to be (I only picked up .0004 gravity points). I think I'll just add a tiny bit more starting water and stop wasting my time squeezing!

Fordzilla said:

Did my second BIAB today, it went great. I only lost about 2 degrees in the 60 minute mash. Did a mash out this time as well. Looking forward to many more BIAB brews.

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congrats! have you asked yourself the important question yet? that would be "Why did I wait so long to try BIAB?"

Mysticmead said:

congrats! have you asked yourself the important question yet? that would be "Why did I wait so long to try BIAB?"

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Haha I guess brewing all grain with any method was a little intimidating. Extract is simpler, quicker and I knew I could make good beer. BIAB has only added about 30-45 min to my brew day though, and the beer is fantastic.

Mysticmead said:

if you pour slowly, and squeeze the hell out of the bag when done, you should lose very little. just plan the recipe on 70%. if you get better YAY!! if lower, you didn't crush finer and/or squeeze enough

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I'll give it a shot. I crunched the numbers and I should be able to do a full volume mash for my next brew, but I'll try this or the bucket if not. Cheers!