Newb alert!!!!

So obviously I am a newb when it comes to brewing.

I have learned that I am better off piecing my equipment rather than buying a "kit"

I will be going around to the flea markets/yard sales/craigslist in search of supplies such as carboys, coolers, kegs, etc

I do plan to go with keg rather than bottle as it seems much easier.

Here are a few quick questions. I would like to start brewing ASAP evening if I don't have all the supplies for more complex brews. I seen listed in the "store" section on this site the Coopers beer kits. What additional to the kit do I need to brew this? Just a 5 gallon pot and pot for fermenting? I see a lot of places are offering plastic containers now, anything wrong with them? Any reason why I couldn't just use the ones they sell at grocery stores?

Cost, once I have all the things needed, how much does it cost on average to brew a batch, in terms of ingredients? I know you can't really out a price on brewing your owing VS buying a case of beer but would you said a 5 gallon batch cost 30,40,50+ to brew? Keep in mind, I do not have any supply stores around here so i have to order online. I know I will have a million other questions but this is all I can think of right now.

Thanks
Jason

Welcome to the wonderful world of brewing! You can most certainly ferment in a 5 gallon plastic bucket with lid. Lots of folks do that. I like fermenting in glass carboys personally, but it is a preference/cost thing. You can find extract only beer kits all over the internet and your local brew shop should have them too. They run anywhere from mid $20s on up - depending on the kind of beer. If you never have brewed, I suggest one of these extract only kits. Then you only need a big stainless pot, a good sanitizer, thermometer, hydrometer, fermenting bucket, and bottles (or keg). Voila - beer!

the plastic 6.5 gallon bucket is extremely common for fermentation, some chose the glass carboy. you can expect to pay anywhere from $26 to $45 dollars for most extract kits. You should probably get a siphon too. Not sure what else you'll need for kegging, I bottle.

Cool, I get to reply to this thread of yours too!

I would like to start brewing ASAP evening if I don't have all the supplies for more complex brews. I seen listed in the "store" section on this site the Coopers beer kits. What additional to the kit do I need to brew this? Just a 5 gallon pot and pot for fermenting? I see a lot of places are offering plastic containers now, anything wrong with them? Any reason why I couldn't just use the ones they sell at grocery stores?

Click to expand...

You need a large enough pot to boil and a fermentation vessel of some sort. A quick trip to your local big box store (Lowe's or Walmart) will yield HPDE plastic buckets with a lid. #1 and #2 are considered food-grade.

A starter kit as that available from the OHBS is going to suit you well and will likely be less expensive that cobbling together equipment; Midwest Supplies, Northern Brewer, Austin Homebrew Supply, Brewmaster's Warehouse.

As far as process, definitely check out How to Brew - By John Palmer to get acquainted with the process, sanitation, etc.

Good luck and ask away!

Plastic fermenters are fine, just make sure they are food grade and you can get an air lock on them. As for cast, after you have all the equipment, the ingrediments will only be about $30-40 for an extract brew. All grain is cheaper as far as ingredients are concerned.

From my experience, I would recommend buying an equipment kit to get started. It's not that expensive and it is cheaper than buying everything you need individually in most cases. It has everything you need to get started, and it's the RIGHT stuff. You won't have to worry about the 'will it work or not' question.

The bare minimum of equipment you need is a pot to cook in, a container to ferment in. When the fermentation is complete, the beer has to go somewhere else, whether it be kegs or a bottling bucket.

Beer ingredients kits range in price from about $25 up to $80 or so for some extract brew kits.

I would highly recommend spending some more time researching the processes involved before you decide what equipment you want to buy.

Jason,

Well, I'm opposite. I would rather get my equipment in one fail swoop than run around piecing it together, but that's me. I would think it would take a lot of time and running from place to place to piece it together.

On the plastic bucket. I'm told the buckets from the brew store are "food safe" and that is important because you don't want the alcohol leaching out some kind of chemical or something. I'm not really sure how much I buy that. At any rate, my certified homebrew bucket is HDPE#2 and so are many other plastic buckets so you decide what you want to do. The main thing is that you do need a 6.5 gallon bucket and those are hard to find. There are 5 gallon buckets everywhere but not many 6.5. Also, you have to consider what was in them before you got them. I know I can get 6.5 gallon pickle buckets from a local deli but I only use them in the garden. I don't want my beer tasting like a kosher dill.

Really, you will be best served if you get all the basic brew equipment before you start. There isn't really a minimal amount of equipment you need less than the basic kit.

The style of beer dictates the cost somewhat due to the ingredients used. But a simple kit for a simple beer, say kolsch, brown ale or something would run in the neighborhood of $25 to $30. It may be more to mail order though because of shipping. I have a local store I can go to so I re-use my container for extract and that saves me $3 and I have no shipping. I don't use them but I think I have seen some kits online for $20 and $25 plus shipping. I don't know how good they are though.

Dennis

Dang, you guy's are fast! Thanks for all the replies. I have been reading the site and will continue to do so an find more questions as I go I'm sure. I will rethink my kit VS no kit idea for a while longer to make the best choice. For some reason I thought grain brewing would be more expensive than extract. Most people prefer all grain? That way you can do your own recipes and what not?

When I look at pictures here it doesn't look like there are many people using the items that actually come in the kits, that is another reason why I thought just by what I need. Are these setups maybe AG setups VS extract? Plus, if I am able to buy used carboy's that seems to be a big chunk of the cost of a kit. When I mentioned plastic, I was actually talking about the plastic water jugs that are used on water coolers to ferment in.

Also, I think I have a 2 contact where I might be able to get a keg or 2 to boil in. Are their pros/cons to this?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I know I have more but I can't think of them at the moment.

Jason

Another quick question. What are the legalities of shipping beer? If I know somebody who lives in Florida and they can't get a brew that is available in my area, can I ship them a bottle or two? I am not talking about my homebrew but something purchased from the beer store.

I did a combo of the two schools of thought. I found several offerings on Craigslist for entire collections of equipment. So I basically got complete kits, but for $15-20 a pop rather than $50-100. Saved money, but I didn't have to piecemeal everything together. I'd definitely recommend it.

here is the kit I was looking at when i thought about getting a kit.
NORTHERN BREWER: Beer Starter Kits

I was going to go with the basic starter kit and add what I needed from there. I do have about 35+ plastic bottles so I could bottle in the begining until I have my keg setup which would an old fridge I currently keep my purchased beer in. I do have a 2.5 gallon pot that i could use but it that big enough? the description for the basic kit says all I need is a 2.5 gallon or bigger pot, a kit and bottles. So if I buy that kit all I would really need to get then would be the kit right?

Welcome to the obsession buddy. My advice is to use How to Brew and youtube to familiarize yourself with the whole process. WindRiver has a starter kit that is super cheap. I'd recommend going with that kit. You won't find one for a better price. It even comes with your choice of a recipe kit. I'd also recommend looking around at Austin Homebrew Supply. They have $6.99 flat rate shipping and some awesome recipe kits. Check some out. Other than that, just have fun and enjoy your new hobby. It's not too tough. Good luck. Cheers!

I have never done all grain so not sure about the cost vs. extract. But all grain is harder to do, takes up more time and requires more equipment so in that sense, it has it’s own added costs. All grain, to me, seems like the advanced stage of the hobby. I wouldn’t suggest starting off at that point. You can make up your own recipes without going all-grain.

I am sure many all-grain brewers would say they prefer all-grain but there are many experienced long-time brewers on this site that do both (all-grain as well as extract w/specialty grain) for various reasons.

I don’t want to fill your head with a bunch of confusing thoughts, but why don’t you plan on starting out using a recipe that uses extracts and specialty grains. This is kind of the best of both worlds and the added step of steeping grains is no big deal at all. With this you get the benefits of fresh malt sugars to compliment your extract. Also, your recipe possibilities are endless and yes, you can make up your own.

Other questions - if you get the basic brew kit, you will use pretty much everything in it. Don’t use water cooler jugs to ferment in. You can get plastic carboys instead of glass and they cost less than glass. These are made for fermenting, i.e. made from food grade plastic. I believe old kegs are good for boiling in. I see a lot of guys doing it.

Dennis

i really find it cheaper to brew at home compared to buying commercial brews comparable to the quality you brew at home. even on extract (and i'm still working on getting a brewkettle for all-grain), the most i've spent is $40 for an extract kit. that works out to be $0.80/bottle (50 bottle batch). and it tastes better too.

Dennis,
Thanks for the info, you have been very helpful. I think I will take your advice, and the advice of others and go with a kit and upgrade as I progress. I will look around and see what kits looks the best and go with that i think. The windriver one does look nice for the price. Does anybody else have any experience with that kit?

So does anybody have any info on shipping beer?

In your opinions, which starter kit would you go with?
Northern Brewing Basic kit
Austin homebrew basic kit
Windriver basic kit

Windriver is the cheapest but the Austin comes with larger fermenter and bottling buckets but doesn't come with a hydrometer. To many choices lol

Here's my take:

If you are really looking to save money, you can do so by scavaging equipment, but you will need to really get creative and be willing to sue stuff that is second hand or different. Buying a kit is great if you KNOW you are going to want to brew long term and don't want to take the time to look for used equipment.

All Grain brewing is considerably cheaper per batch than extract, but more difficult (or fun) than extract brewing, and there is a higher up-front cost due to needing larger kettle and MLT, etc. Most of that stuff is not that much more expensive if you build your own or buy cheap. Also, the biggest savings come from buying bulk and you would need a crusher of some type to be able to use your sacks of grain. I built my own crusher, but I work in a machine shop, so you may not be able to do the same.

I think that there is nothing wrong with using a plastic water cooler bottle if it's marked PETE on the bottom. You'll have to look though, because there are plenty that are not of the correct material and could cause oxidation if you use them for longer than a quick primary.

Shipping beer between state lines is not allowed as far as I know. Most shipping companies have a policy against that. I've heard of all sorts of ways to pack bottles so they don't break though. I bet some of the people on board here can describe ways of safely shipping EMPTY bottles Or maybe bottles of yeast samples in suspension...

Cost breakdown between buying kit and bulk AG:

Respected online brew supply recipe for Two-hearted Ale Extract Clone: $50 + $8 Shipping = $58. (I believe yeast is included in that price).

Bulk Grain and Hops (50# sack of 2-row, 1 lb of crystal 40, bulk Centennial, and Dry yeast)
$8.80 grain 11 lbs, + $2 crystal (LHBS), + $10 hops (5 ounces and shipping) + $2.25 Yeast (LHBS) = $23.

Tack on a few more pennies for consumables if you like and see that it is def cheaper to buy and use bulk if you can. Of course you have to drive to get a sack of grain, so add that. I am just picking up a sack on the way to a friends house, so I don't include the cost to ship the sack or gas money because I'm already going that way.

If you round that up to $25 per batch, and assume you get 50 bottles (for the sake of the numbers) it costs $0.50 per bottle, or $3.00 a 6'er of beer that usually costs around $9 here last time I bought it.

Of course your time is money, but if you enjoy brewing what they hey!

The online AG kit was $35 + $8 Shipping = $43. Also, you can shave a few pennies if you harvest your own yeast from store-bought bottles of good beer, although it's not much by the time you factor in the cost of the DME to grow them up. (but it might be fun and interesting to do!)

spitfire said:

...Here are a few quick questions. I would like to start brewing ASAP evening if I don't have all the supplies for more complex brews. I seen listed in the "store" section on this site the Coopers beer kits. What additional to the kit do I need to brew this? Just a 5 gallon pot and pot for fermenting? I see a lot of places are offering plastic containers now, anything wrong with them? Any reason why I couldn't just use the ones they sell at grocery stores?

Click to expand...

I went the Coopers route and I am very happy with the fermenter(s) they sell. Their 'kit' comes with everything you need to start a batch immediately (other than a pot for the stove that should hold at least 2-3 gallons.
When you add up all the little stuff you need it's not a bad deal actually.
I recently estimated the fermenter is about $25 or so if you add up all the other stuff and need.
The bottles, bottling wand, airlock, spoon, fermometer, hydrometer and even bottle caps are reusable. The fermenter plastic is of a quality that should last for years if you avoid scratching the inside of it. It is also designed well with a large opening on top and rounded corners with a spigot.


I actually bought two because I wanted to be able to have 2 batches going at the same time and it allowed me to stock up on bottles as well as having a GOOD fermenter.

The kit comes with a lager kit (includes the carb. tabs and yeast) so you could pitch yeast the same night you get it. I got mine from makebeer.net

spitfire said:

Cost, once I have all the things needed, how much does it cost on average to brew a batch, in terms of ingredients? I know you can't really out a price on brewing your owing VS buying a case of beer but would you said a 5 gallon batch cost 30,40,50+ to brew? Keep in mind, I do not have any supply stores around here so i have to order online. I know I will have a million other questions but this is all I can think of right now.

Thanks
Jason

Click to expand...

I'd estimate a Coopers kit at $28 average (includes carb. tabs and fermentables) but extract recipes can vary and the stronger the beer the more they cost. I will add that I am extremely satisfied with the quality of the Coopers line (so far). I'm not huge on Lager but it even surpassed my expectations. It's not AG but the Coopers Kit will get you brewing and you can work into partial mashes easily. You WILL need to have a pot large enough for a couple gallons and I'd recommend taking a look at novice brewing with Coopers and Intermediate brewing with Coopers as the instructions that come with the kit are considered (by MOST brewers) to be inaccurate or widely disregarded for more 'orthodox' brewing practices. YMMV!

I hope this helps! I am a novice brewer as well so take what I give you simply as one who went this route and consider as many alternatives and costs and do your research before you dive in like I did! Although I remain happy with my choices I certainly have added more to my 'brewing arsonal' since then YET the fermenters and gear that came with the kit are still in constant use by me so I can't in any way state I am unhappy with the direction *I* took.
Enjoy!

Homercidal said:

Here's my take:

If you are really looking to save money, you can do so by scavaging equipment, but you will need to really get creative and be willing to sue stuff that is second hand or different. Buying a kit is great if you KNOW you are going to want to brew long term and don't want to take the time to look for used equipment.

All Grain brewing is considerably cheaper per batch than extract, but more difficult (or fun) than extract brewing, and there is a higher up-front cost due to needing larger kettle and MLT, etc. Most of that stuff is not that much more expensive if you build your own or buy cheap. Also, the biggest savings come from buying bulk and you would need a crusher of some type to be able to use your sacks of grain. I built my own crusher, but I work in a machine shop, so you may not be able to do the same.

I think that there is nothing wrong with using a plastic water cooler bottle if it's marked PETE on the bottom. You'll have to look though, because there are plenty that are not of the correct material and could cause oxidation if you use them for longer than a quick primary.

Shipping beer between state lines is not allowed as far as I know. Most shipping companies have a policy against that. I've heard of all sorts of ways to pack bottles so they don't break though. I bet some of the people on board here can describe ways of safely shipping EMPTY bottles Or maybe bottles of yeast samples in suspension...

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I didn't think there would be a problem using the spring water 5 gallon since I would think they are food safe but I will check them out and make sure.

I also plan to just do extract to start and work my way into more complex brewing after I get the hang of things.

Ok, so I have been sitting at my desk for the better part of the morning trying to decide on which starter kit. I think I am going to go with the Northern Brewer Better basic Kit. Seems to have a few more things included than the other kits. In the end I'm sure any kit will work so I have decided on this one so I can spend more time learning than deciding on starter kits. The only thing I will want to do at some point is add a 2nd ferm. I have a 2.5 gallon pot at home already so I should be good there right?

Question. What is the best type of spoon to use? Stainless or Plastic?

Another question, it i don't plan to bottle, what can else can I use the bottle bucket for. Can I use that as a 2nd ferm? I might have to bottle my first few but should have my kegerator done shortly. Why is it better to transfer it to the bottle bucket just to bottle? Why not bottle right from the ferm?

Is there anything else that I would need in addition to a Beer ingredient kit?

You will need a beer kit (figure another $30ish for your first batch?), bottling wand, bottles, bottle caps. Unless you have a bottling bucket (with spigot and bottling wand) you will find racking to bottles interesting (IMHO).
Coopers Beer Kit comes with a plastic spoon (nice quality). It would be best to have a SS spoon for boiling and a plastic spoon (something that will not scratch the inside of your fermenter) for stirring.
The reason I went with the Coopers kit is it has everything to make & bottle your first batch. Also, the 750ml/24oz bottles (PET plastic) won't explode (see: bottle bomb) and you only have to bottle 29-30 rather than 58-60 bottles.
The 2.5 gal. pot should be fine (for extract brewing)

As it says on their site:

NEEDED BUT NOT INCLUDED:

Ingredients - try one of our beer kits
A Brew Kettle - any pot 2.5 gallons or greater
Empty Bottles - 48 to 52 pry-off 12-ounce beer bottles.

Click to expand...

Oops, my figuring is for the 6 gallon batches from Coopers. Many domestic kits are 5 gallons so you will need fewer bottles.

I do not normally use a secondary. I bottle/keg right from the primary. I use the carb. tabs though. Most others use a bottling bucket and mix in some sugar/DME to carb with.
I figure the less I change containers the less likely to harm my product.
I see they include 144 caps and a capper so you won't need those. My PET bottles are twist-offs so other than bottling a few to give away (leave and never return) I don't need to hassle with capping. Again, YMMV.
Your choice is to pay more and do more steps. Mine was to make it as simple as possible while still getting the fermenter that will last me a long time. Each of us is different but I am glad I went the way I did. Be careful with that glass carboy (they make me nervous) and I worry too much tho!

Did you see my pic of the Coopers fermenters?
Compare that to the Ale Pail and carboy. Note the nice handles and the wide mouth opening/lid on the Coopers one (and the rounded corners that make bacteria tougher to find a place to hide - compared to the Ale Pail). Another consideration (for ME) was the scratches that the glass carboys seem to invariably get (that can also harbor bacteria and be almost impossible to get to to properly clean - other than soaking?).

TexasStu said:

Did you see my pic of the Coopers fermenters?
Compare that to the Ale Pail.

Click to expand...

Where did you find those?

I bought them from makebeer.net
You have to buy the $99 kit though (comes with spigot, oring, grommet for airlock, spoon, fermometer, airlock, bottling wand, hydrometer, bottle caps, 30 bottles, carb tabs, coopers lager kit [lager extract can, brewing sugar])

link

PS. I like my pics better than theirs. Their pics make the fermenters look cheaper plastic than they are.

IMHO, to do better than the coopers fermenters you would have to go to a conical fermenter (preferably SS) which is a huge leap in cost. I still feel that coopers gave me the biggest bang for my buck whether I were to continue to brew or not.
If I stopped brewing I would wager I could sell the fermenter on these forums and sell it quickly for a good price (that is how good they are).

TexasStu,
I actually have I think 24 plastic bottles from a Beer machine I had before that I never used so I will use those as well. The kit I was looking at did have a bottling bucket and bottle filler. I didn't know that there was another thing to add to the brew in the bottling bucket before i actually bottle so it makes sense to have the bottle bucket.

I do plan to get the kit with the plastic carboys to help prevent accidents

Thanks again for all the info.

I do have a question about kegging. What do I need to get my brew from ferm to keg? Is the something special I need? I think I will bottle my first few, after reading about it, sounds easier than i thought to bottle. Plus I get to drink some brews so I can collect the bottles

You will have what you need then (for kegging) as you need an auto-siphon (or equivilent method of transferring brew from one container into another). You use the same things you'd use if you 'rack' to a bottling bucket.
I started kegging also recently (same reasons you want to) and you CAN use the kegs to condition (room tems) for a few weeks before putting it into your keezer/kegerator.
You can burst carb (see: burst carb) or you can add bottling sugar/DME to the keg when you 'rack' to it (your choice).
You can read all about bottling and such. My quick pointers would be the pros that beer will stay good longer in a glass bottle and it's easier to part with one over one of your PET bottles (at least I become attached to them and do not give them away [@ ~$36 for 30!]) and the cons of bottle bombs. Size of bottles make your life easier or harder with less/more bottles.

I like the 6 gallon batches because I can bottle the extra (over 5 gallons) and take some with me when I go play poker but you can certainly do the same with 5 gallon batches (little more head space but no biggie!).
I know I sound like I'm 'pushing' the coopers fermenters but it's because I am totally sold on them and think they are the shizzit. If I didn't I wouldn't be trying to justify my purchase, I would be very quiet or post the downsides of them. So far I can't think of ANY disadvantage to them and nothing but advantages. One possible disadvantage is if someone really doesn't WANT a spigot on their fermenter (removable to clean or not) I'd recommend one of the Lowe's (umm, ermm, Ale Pails) buckets.