When everything that can go wrong goes wrong...

So yesterday, I decided to try my hand at my first extract batch of beer. Being the ambitious guy that I am, I went ahead and sold half of my school textbooks from the past three years to pay for a turkey fryer setup, big fermentation vessels, a better bottle, and Cooler conversion MLT (for later). I was so excited to work with my wife on the batch, that as soon as she got home from work, I started up the fryer, got those specialty malts steeping and got to work.

Here's where my troubles began. After the 20 minute steep time at around 165, I added another three gallons of water to my brewpot. About fifteen minutes later, the water was at a nice boil. I added my first can of malt extract, and everything looked good. I waited about a minute and then started adding my powdered mix. Out of nowhere, DOUGHBALLS! I tried to start stirring them in, but in doing so, neglected to notice that a boilover was coming and got EVERYWHERE. So the boilover dripped down the sides of the pot and turned off the burner, cooling down the pot enough to stop the wort from boiling. I quickly turned back on the pot, adding the bittering hops while the temperature was still down to avoid another boilover, but then the boil never returned. I completed the entire hour with the temperature hovering around 205-210 (even added boiling water from another pot). Finishing hops added and "boil" (if you can even call it that) completed, I transferred the wort (which was still in the pot!) to the icebath, where it quickly melted most of the ice that I had bought. I then had to carry it up a flight of stairs to my bathtub where more ice-cold water was waiting just in case. I threw out my back. OUCH! When I finally got the heat down to safe pitching temperatures, I pitched, added the lid and airlock and set it aside. It's been bubbling like crazy all morning, but there's still a part of me that's frustrated about all the things that went wrong. So, instead of thinking of tossing the beer before I can even taste it, I'm merely going to make a list of things that I'm going to do next time to improve my results.

1) Make sure to brew with a friend. Having help with stirring, boilovers and moving hot and heavy equipment is essential to the beginning brewer.

2) Keep that spray bottle handy!

3) Triple my ice bill to about 10 pounds to get those temperatures down much faster.

4)Boil less volume until I can improve the power of my burner, to make sure I get the full, rolling boil the hops need.

5) Drink more beer while brewing beer.

Any thoughts/suggestions? I'm thinking of dry hopping when I rack into the secondary to improve my hop aromas, but I'm not sure...

Was the powder you added DME? If it was turn off the heat and use a wire whisk to mix it in.

When I cooled with Ice baths. I had to start making ice a few days ahead of time. It takes so much, especially with larger boil volumes.

All you can do is learn from this experience. NEVER throw out your beer! time heals all things, including beer. Also, in my experience, I an others dont even touch a beer until flame out. Either you will get drunk and screw something up, or the beer gods will guide you through your drunken brewfest! Glad to see you were prepared, and you made a checklist for next time. I'm sure this beer will turn out to be great! Welcome to the obsession!

I know you're frustrated, but it really doesn't sound that bad to me.

Your beer will still be great. Ideally, you'd be adding the hops at a nice rolling boil for better utilization, but if you were in the 210 range, you should have a decent utilization. Where I live, my wort boils around 210.

If you're going to continue doing full boils (and I think you should!) then one more expense might be in order- a wort chiller. This can be hooked up outside to a hose, and chill your wort from boiling to 65 degrees in less than 1/2 hour, and not have you lift the full kettle at all. That can save your back, but cost you $60 or so.

Boilovers happen to all of us- but at least you were outside and not on your kitchen stove that would take many hours to clean. A couple of tips to help: put the powdered malt (that's DME, dry malt extract) in a big bowl before adding it. When you get to a boil, turn OFF the heat and add the extract, using a whisk and a large spoon to stir well. Stir it until it's evenly mixed. Then, add the liquid extract (LME) when it's still off the heat. Then turn the heat on again, and watch for boilovers. Keep that spray bottle handy. Once it's back to a rolling boil, you can add the first hops and set your timer for 60 minutes.

I don't know why you didn't get back to a boil- you definitely should have. I wonder if some of the boilover clogged up your burner a bit?

I definitely think that's what happened. When I tore everything down to clean up, there was some goop in the burner.

And yes, the powder was DME. I had an original gravity of about 1.039-1.040 (Red Ale), so I'm probably still okay!

I'm brand new to brewing myself and have just brewed my second batch. Both batches so far have had their "issues" that at the time really frustrated me mostly because I was expecting perfection. Certainly, perfection is an unrealistic goal at this point in the hobby. I'm learning quickly that beer is very forgiving and when you seem most frustratred, the rule is to RDWAHAHB! It all works out in the end. Don't get discouraged.

doesnt sound to bad sorry about your back.... you can make an imersion chiller for around $ 40 at lowes. good luck and let us know how it turns out.

oh yea RDWAHAHB

brewnscooter said:

I'm brand new to brewing myself and have just brewed my second batch. Both batches so far have had their "issues" that at the time really frustrated me mostly because I was expecting perfection. Certainly, perfection is an unrealistic goal at this point in the hobby. I'm learning quickly that beer is very forgiving and when you seem most frustratred, the rule is to RDWAHAHB! It all works out in the end. Don't get discouraged.

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Great words of advice!

I think perfection is an unrealistic goal at the point I'm at in my brewing, too. Something always seems to be just "not perfect"- being out of the hops I swore I had, a too-fine crush so I get a stuck sparge, an out-of-whack thermometer, etc. Relaxing and just going with the flow seems to be the only way to deal with it!

It actually takes effort to ruin your beer. The worst that will happen is that it's not as excellent as it could be.

Awesome advice yooper. I never thought of using a large bowl for the DME.
That would sure save time trying to get all the DME out of a bag that has bits of extract congealed around the opening!

To save ice, think about a wort chiller.
Another way to save on ice, is to only use cold tap water to get the wort temp down in the low hundreds, then use the ice to finish with. Taking the temperature down is dependent on the temperature difference, so cold tap water is very effective when your wort is 200°F. And you won't melt your ice before you're at 70.

I'm guessing that RDWAHAHB means Relax, don't worry and have a home brew?

I just recently found out that SWMBO means she who must be obeyed... lol....

What do you guys think about me dry hopping this thing once I rack it to the secondary? Any tips on good siphoning without an autosiphon?

What happened to you is no more than has happened to many of us, actually we've prolly done much worse at one time or another, and yet the beers have a way of turning out great...

Read this to see https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/wh...where-your-beer-still-turned-out-great-96780/

Dough balls are what happens in a cooler during mashing all grain, what you had is common with dme, it's just the clumping that happens when the powder connects with the steam....on a stove top we recommend removing the pot from the burner and adding your dme, but's that's hard to do in a full folume boil, but I know from experience that if you keep stirring they dissolve eventually.

Once as an experiment, I dumped an entire 9 pound recipe of dme in at once AND STILL managed to have it all dissolve, though my arm hurt afterward. Some people use a wire whisk to better mix the dme....but clumping happens to all of us.

If you are going to use the7.5 gallon turkey fryer pot (like many of us do) I can't reccommend highly enough. Fermcap S Foam Control drops....you add two drops per gallon of liquid, and it prevents boilovers. I have used it both in stove top and turkey fryer brewing and have filled both kettles to nearly an inch uder the lip of the pots, and actually taken a nap between hop additions with no fear of boilvers.



https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/lets-talk-about-foam-control-drops-aka-fermcap-59261/

And if you are doing full volume boils, you do need to get a wort chiller.....not only is carrying 5 gallons of near boiling wort dangerous, it is really important to get your wort cooled a rapidly as possible.

But overall you made beer and it will turn out okay...just relax and let the yeast do their job.

sounds pretty much like an "average" brew day, hope you back in action soon and can iron out those kinks...

now the hard part.... waiting....

I started brewing a little less than a year ago and what I have learned is that brewing beer is one of those things that is just a continual learning experience. The things I’m learning at this point are not things that make or break the beer but just odds and ends that make the process easier and improve the beer. But my first batch was crazy like yours though. In fact, my problems and mistakes on batch #1 would likely put yours to shame. It sounds like you will end up with beer and I am pretty sure you will enjoy it and the mistakes you made on batch #1 won’t happen on batch #2. It just gets easier and easier.

I use three 10# bags plus a bit from my ice maker during cool down. It takes a lot of ice. Wort chiller is the way to go but I have not had the money for it, although I could have paid for one by now with all the ice I have bought.

If you want to dry hop then do it. No reason not to.

You can fill the siphon hose with water, stick the racking cane in the beer and let the water run out the hose. Supposedly, this will start the siphon and the beer will follow the water. I have tried that and it never worked for me. I use a smaller piece of tubing that I attach to the end of my hose. I start the siphon with my mouth and then remove the attachment. That way I never touch the siphon hose with my mouth only the attachement. In addition to a wort chiller, an autosiphon is on my list of future purchases.

Dennis

drparish said:

I'm guessing that RDWAHAHB means Relax, don't worry and have a home brew?

I just recently found out that SWMBO means she who must be obeyed... lol....

What do you guys think about me dry hopping this thing once I rack it to the secondary? Any tips on good siphoning without an autosiphon?

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Take the money you would have spent on dry hopping and get an autosiphon instead. They are under $20 shipped. I would also recommend an immersion chiller, it's cheaper than back surgery

You could attempt fill you sink w/water and startsan,and start the siphon w/your mouth and let the solution run off into the toilet or bathtub for about 30 seconds. Plug the end of the siphon w/your thumb and move the other end of the hose into your elevated carboy. Release you thumb and afaik the siphon will continue, drain that into a bucket until the starsan is out, and move the hose to the secondary. Do not do this however, if you gotta go through that kind of trouble, and use your mouth (bacteriaz!) just leave it in the primary for 3 weeks. Plenty of time to order an autosiphon.


and dont you dare throw that beer out... it WILL be good!

Just a word of advice:

NEVER under any circumstance try to brew when you're frustrated or distracted about something else that's going on. I'm not implying that this was the problem here, but trust me....nothing sucks more than trying to keep SWMBO happy, the dog out of your way, the baby from crying and any other multitude of things. Not only will you have a wort boil over but you'll have a personal boil over as well. If you thought your first brew was hard....situations like this almost make you want to quit brewing altogether. Almost. By the way, should the dog happen to eat the yeast while you're cleaning (after racking) just let him. Nothing is funnier than a drunk dog. (enter animal rights activists)

Ok enough of that. You are planning on buying an autosiphon right?? Just don't let your buddy borrow it before he leaves for extended business travel.

i've experienced first hand the negative effects of trying to carry a turkey fryer pot down a flight of stairs to cool it... definitely not a good idea. i spent about 2 hours shop-vaccing sticky wort out of the stairs and still have a nice scar on my wrist from the burn i got... immersion chiller, for sure... and if you search around, you can find a thread dealing with running the IC from an ice bath with a cheap fountain pump, works GREAT.

and that sounds a lot like a first brew day to me! keep your head up and it will get better.

Clonefarmer said:

Was the powder you added DME? If it was turn off the heat and use a wire whisk to mix it in.

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+1 to that!

I often replace DME with LME in extract recipes because it is easier to work with. 4lb of DME = 5lb of LME

Remove heat when adding your malt extract, until it is completley mixed in. this will allow you to be ready on the stir paddle when the boil returns and wants to boilover.

drparish said:

1) Make sure to brew with a friend. Having help with stirring, boilovers and moving hot and heavy equipment is essential to the beginning brewer.

2) Keep that spray bottle handy!

3) Triple my ice bill to about 10 pounds to get those temperatures down much faster.

4)Boil less volume until I can improve the power of my burner, to make sure I get the full, rolling boil the hops need.

5) Drink more beer while brewing beer.

Any thoughts/suggestions? I'm thinking of dry hopping when I rack into the secondary to improve my hop aromas, but I'm not sure...

Click to expand...

1. Take your time and relax, no friends necessary. I make mine sit there and drink beer and just hang out. No help necessary unless I have to step away for a minute.

2. Wort Chiller is for you! Even a low end one is better than buying ice. I did the ice from the ice machine in the fridge and cold water and it sucked. Second time I brewed I had a chiller in the mail.

3. Do some practice boils wiht just water to see how much you can boil on the fryer you have. Also see My gas stove with two burners on my heavy duty kettle will boil 7.5 gallons in 1 hour. Granted it's not rolling like a big dawg.. but sufficient for brewing.

SmugMug said:

Just a word of advice:

NEVER under any circumstance try to brew when you're frustrated or distracted about something else that's going on. I'm not implying that this was the problem here, but trust me....nothing sucks more than trying to keep SWMBO happy, the dog out of your way, the baby from crying and any other multitude of things. Not only will you have a wort boil over but you'll have a personal boil over as well. If you thought your first brew was hard....situations like this almost make you want to quit brewing altogether.......

Click to expand...

Very good advice here. I have been in this situation of juggling brewing with "life". That takes all of the fun out of it in a hurry.

A couple of ideas:

A spraybottle (sanitized bottle with clean water) can kill the foam and "head off" impending boil-overs.

A wort chiller is relatively cheap and gets the wort to pitching temp in as little as 10 minutes.

Hang in there man, it gets easier each time you brew.

just another alternative to the dough ball effect is something I use when thickening up food or sauces. If it requires corn starch or flour you mix the flour with a liquid in a seperate container and then pour this thickening liquid in. I imagine if you wanted to you could grab a decent amount of your wort into a large mixing bowl and whisk your dme and pour this into your boiler.....just an idea and your first day sounds similar to mine keep it up I plan on it!

+1 on having a brewing assistant. Mine is my 15 year old daughter, so she's not doing any heavy lifting for me or anything but it's nice having someone to watch for boil overs when I need to go take a leak or to stir the wort while I pour in the extract or to hold one end of the siphon hose while I keep the other end out of the hop pile at the bottom of the kettle. Nothing beats another set of hands at the ready.

I don't do a full boil, so I cool in the sink and it takes a few empties and refills to get it down to temp. Fill the sink halfway up, put your kettle in and then fill it the rest of the way up. Stir after a few minutes and you'll find the sink water toasty warm. Drain the sink and repeat. After about the third sinkfull your wort will be closer to the water temp so that's the time to add your ice to the sink to get it the rest of the way down. Don't expect it to cool right down on one sinkfull of ice.

ChshreCat said:

I don't do a full boil, so I cool in the sink and it takes a few empties and refills to get it down to temp. Fill the sink halfway up, put your kettle in and then fill it the rest of the way up. Stir after a few minutes and you'll find the sink water toasty warm. Drain the sink and repeat. After about the third sinkfull your wort will be closer to the water temp so that's the time to add your ice to the sink to get it the rest of the way down. Don't expect it to cool right down on one sinkfull of ice.

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I do the same thing, but I use about 2cups of ice on the first 2 fills of the sink, then empty my icemaker on the 3rd refill of the sink. 30min and I am at pitching temp...

I really think that I'm going to get a wort chiller for the next batch... If not, I'm going to save up ice in the freezer for at least a week prior to brew day.

How many extract batches did you guys do before you switched to all grain (for those of you who switched, that is)? Are boilovers as common with all grain since the only additions to the boil are generally hops and/or additives?

I'm really itching to make my next batch all grain, but I have my reservations....

I did about 10 extract batches before switching to all grain. BUt that doesn't mean I don't do extract anymore. Someof my favorite brews are extract. I still get boil overs with the all grain, but a fwe mins after the first hops addition it dies down. My first allgrain batch was a disaster completely missed my OG by 20 points! to make matters worse it was an IPA. It was like drinking slightly intoxicating hop water. I still drank it though. but like it is said RDWHAHB. I am currently trying to work out a way to use a bucket of ice water and my wort chilling. Probably going to circulate it with a drill pump (6 dollars from lowes) first run with it will be on monday. The same might also be used to recirculate my first runnings from my MLT. I'll let you know how it works.

There are many ways to chill the wort, how about NOT chilling it?
It is called, oddly enough, no chill brewing.

Contrary to popular belief it does work, and remarkably well.

Check out BYO issue March-April 2009

Check out a couple of the threads here on HBT (quite a few guys are getting into it)

Also check out the writeup that I have on a no chill brew that I completed back in April that is posted at www.brewersfriend.com[/B]]Brewer's Friend, home brewing resources

For $15 to buy the HDPE fermentor from USplastics.com, you can just NOT chill your beer. No ice, no water... no fuss.

It is just another option in a hobby full of options for the brewer.

FWIW, my first batch was AG... it wasnt the SMOOTHEST brew session I have ever had, but the beer was great. It isnt as hard as it seems, planning is the key. Run through the brew day several times in your head, write down the steps, heck even post them here and assk if you overlooked anything. Do it, you will be just fine.

Pol

drparish said:

How many extract batches did you guys do before you switched to all grain (for those of you who switched, that is)? Are boilovers as common with all grain since the only additions to the boil are generally hops and/or additives?

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i did one extract, one partial mash, and then went all-grain. the allure was just too great for me. extract brewing is awesome and produces some great beers, but i'm just too much of a junkie for doing things 'from scratch'... and quite honestly, it really isn't all that difficult to get to all-grain. if you're a do-it-yourselfer, you can find a cooler, modify it, and get a turkey fryer setup and you can be good to go, or you can spend a few weeks finding some kegs, converting them to keggles, etc. and get as funky as you want... there's a veritable plethora of equipment available for all-grain brewers.

The Pol said:

.....

Also check out the writeup that I have on a no chill brew that I completed back in April that is posted at www.brewersfriend.com[/b]]Brewer's Friend, home brewing resources

....

Pol

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Hey Pol, your link is broken.

I did a test on the drill pump today. Do NOT use them to touch any part of the wort or beer. They have some sort of greese on the inside. Sprewed it out through my lines and was a PIA to clean. It will work great to run water from the ice bath through the chiller though.