Blue Moon Clone

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I'm planning to brew Nilo's #3 today but noticed that the ingredients list for #3 in post #304 lists 4lbs of 2 row, whereas post 328 says 5lbs, I'm guessing that this is a transcription error and that the first recipe listing is correct. i.e. 4lbs not 5lbs of 2 row. Can someone confirm? I 'm planning to grind my whole coriander and will also grind the dried Valencia peels that I bought yesterday using a spice grinder. I'm planning to use just Valencia per Wayne's original recipe.

I've thoroughly enjoyed reading through this thread and the collaborative nature of the evolution towards achieving a recipe with the current Blue Moon taste. I wonder whether one of the missing steps is that to get it just right one must next brew this on Aug. 31, 2012 ( the next blue moon) perhaps by then we'll be ready. I just can't wait ;-)

Thanks,
-Brad
 
I'm planning to brew Nilo's #3 today but noticed that the ingredients list for #3 in post #304 lists 4lbs of 2 row, whereas post 328 says 5lbs, I'm guessing that this is a transcription error and that the first recipe listing is correct. i.e. 4lbs not 5lbs of 2 row. Can someone confirm? I 'm planning to grind my whole coriander and will also grind the dried Valencia peels that I bought yesterday using a spice grinder. I'm planning to use just Valencia per Wayne's original recipe.

I've thoroughly enjoyed reading through this thread and the collaborative nature of the evolution towards achieving a recipe with the current Blue Moon taste. I wonder whether one of the missing steps is that to get it just right one must next brew this on Aug. 31, 2012 ( the next blue moon) perhaps by then we'll be ready. I just can't wait ;-)

Thanks,
-Brad

Brad, the correct amount of 2 row used in recipe 3 was 5 pounds. I have corrected post 304. Thanks for catching that.
FYI, I have recipe 5 fermenting right now. For some weird reason, I can't stick to one recipe, always plugging in something new to see what happen. Repeating recipe 4 now but will use orange extract, to be added during priming/bottling.
Let us know how your batch turns out.
 
Thanks Nilo. This batch (brewed on Sat) has 4 lbs of 2 row. O.G. was 1.052. It's bubbling away nicely now. I'm looking forward to the final result. In the next batch I'll go with 5 lbs.

Cheers,
-Brad
 
Nilo, nice spreadsheet.....

About how many tbsp/tsp would you say .375 oz. of coriander equals per your #4...

Thx
 
Holy carp this thread is long. Sorry for the questions here - I'm sure they are in the first 40 pages someplace:D

My dad is visiting soon and wants me to brew a Blue Moon clone. He doesn't generally like beer, but tried this one and liked it. Unfortunately, I am not a wheat beer fan and know nothing about brewing wits.

1) So, if I brew this, can we drink it in 5 weeks? I think wheats are supposed to drink quicker than standard pale ales, etc., no?

2) Orange peel - do I just zest an orange? The outer skin? Or should I take the entire peel and grind it up?

3) If I keg this, will it be too clear? Should I just bottle it and hope for carbonation in time?

Thanks.
 
my 2c:
1)5 weeks is fine
2)Zest 2 oranges. Avoid the white underneath that can add bitter taste. You don't need to grind it, just chop, add to 1/2 cup of vodka while you brew the batch or the day before, than throw all into primary before or after pitching the yeast. I find that most aromas would evaporate if you boil the peels, specially the fresh peels.
3)I don't keg, but I don't think it would make any difference on how clear it looks. 5 weeks in bottles will give you plenty of carbonation. Use 3/4 to 1 cup prime sugar for 5gal batch.
 
my 2c:
1)5 weeks is fine
2)Zest 2 oranges. Avoid the white underneath that can add bitter taste. You don't need to grind it, just chop, add to 1/2 cup of vodka while you brew the batch or the day before, than throw all into primary before or after pitching the yeast. I find that most aromas would evaporate if you boil the peels, specially the fresh peels.
3)I don't keg, but I don't think it would make any difference on how clear it looks. 5 weeks in bottles will give you plenty of carbonation. Use 3/4 to 1 cup prime sugar for 5gal batch.

Thanks! I'll do this on Sunday and drink on Aug. 1st.
 
Just tried my #5 and this is how it looked like. A little too dark.
Tasting wise, I didn't like it. The orange extract (McCormick) didn't do its job and it tasted weird, takes a while to figure out what it tastes like. A no go for me.
Updated recipe sheet was posted to
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0BxL7TXS8tHPsNWM2YmQ1YTYtMGY1YS00YjJjLWE5ZDktMmQ2ODdmMzljNDUz&hl=en_US

I would stick with #4 for now.

BM_5.JPG


BM_5b.JPG
 
OK, just put my first wit into the bucket this morning. I went basically with recipe #4 with small changes based on ingredients on hand. Also drank my first Blue Moon last night just to see what all the fuss is about. Not bad. Still not a big fan of the style though.
 
I just bottled a 3 gallon batch that I scaled down from the early recipe that Wayne1 posted. I'll chime in on how it tastes in a few weeks... The wort tasted great, but hard to tell if there was any resemblance to Blue Moon.
 
Haven't had time to read the whole thread....but I just printed the PDF with the different recipes. Which one should I brew all-grain this weekend?
 
BrewBrain said:
After about a million all barley batches, this is my first wheat beer. Is it normal to have about six feet of trub on the bottom of the fermenter?

Next time try a protein rest for 15 mind, then raise the mash to conversion temps. Also use whirlfloc or Irish moss. Also get a good hot/cold break. Etc etc. Whirlpool and leave the sludge in the kettle.

This all will result in less trunk in the fermenter.
 
Great thread. I have a Northern Brewer Bavarian Hefeweizen extract kit I would like to convert into a BM-esque clone. This is brew no. 3 and the first one to stray from a kit, so I'm looking for a little help. It doesn't need to be a perfect clone, and I would like to use as many of my existing ingredients as possible (6 lbs wheat LME (65/35 wheat to pale malt ratio), 1 lbs wheat dme (same ratio)), and 1 oz tettnang). Here's my proposed recipe, let me know if you have any thoughts (if the abv is a little high, say 6%, I'm o.k. with that):

-6 lbs wheat DME (late addition)
-1 lbs wheat DME (60 min)(needed given the crystal?)
-2 lbs crystal 10L (steeped)(is this too much considering the other me additions?)
-.5 lbs carapils (steeped)
-.5 lb flaked oats (15 min boil)

-1 oz. tettnang (60 mins)
-1/4 oz. coriander (5-10 min)
-3 fresh valencia orange peels in primary (do those go in a nylon bag or loose?)

Wy1056 or WLP001 @ 68

Also, will the orange peels and the oats leave to much of a mess on my yeast cake to re-pitch onto it?

Happy to contribute my results to the project, though clearly you are all operating on a much higher plane.
 
I'd definitely drop at least a pound of the crystal there, especially with all that extract. Regarding the peels, I've pitched loose plenty and had no ill effects, but it does clutter the cake a bit. If you want to use it again for a different batch, I'd bag them.
 
Just realizing I said 6 lbs of late addition dme, when I meant LME. Don't know if that changes the answer. Prolly going to go with the suggestion of only 1 lb.
 
I brewed this up BIAB this afternoon.

Went with:

6lb 2 row
4.5 lb White Wheat malt
1.25 lb Flaked oats

mashed 60 minutes at 154 in 6 gallons of water
Sparged at 170 in 2 gallons of water in a second pot for 10 minutes
Sparged again in brew pot at 170 for 10 minutes.
Combined for the boil. Wound up with around 6.75 gallons

1 Oz German Hallertau 3.8 60 min
.5 oz German Hallertau 3.0 45 min
.5 oz German Hallertau 3.0 15 min
3 tsp crushed McCormick Coriander 10 min
2 tsp dried sweet orange peal bought from LHBS 10 min

Safeale 05

IBU came in around 19
5.75 gallons in the fermenter

It seemed like I had a lot of particles in the Wort. I am sure it will settle out though. I used a paint strainer in my ale pale and it got clogged up I wound up pouring more of the pellet hop material than normal into the fermenter. Probably should have used a hop bag. All in all my numbers were pretty good. OG came in at 1.055. Pitched at 75F and the fermenter is in a swamp cooler with Ice. It should be in the low 60's by morning.

Looking forward to this one.
 
I've seen a few people mention boiling various amounts of oats in their brewkettle. Can someone who has done this comment on the results (taste, body, and comparison with just mashing the oats)?

I'm a bit worried that actually boiling the oats in the kettle would result in an astringent flavor and clog my counterflow chiller despite using a whirlpool.
Thanks
 
Boil the oats in a nylon bag or some other straining device. Take them out when you start the chill.
Worked for me.
(Awesome recipe by the way)
 
Brewed Nero's recipe #4 yesterday, boiled 1/2lb oats in a mesh bag for 15 minutes as suggested (thanks for the tip). Dry oats soaked up quite a bit of wort but no problems with clogging. Nice golden orange color and orange aroma of the wort. US-05 is bubbling away at 64 degrees in the swamp cooler. All the work everyone has put into these recipes is really appreciated.
 
Success! I had to improvise here and there, but things turned out fine for my first wheat beer. I didnt have a bag, so took a couple gallons of boiling wort inside to the stove and boiled the oats, orange peel, etc. there, strained, and rerurned to the BK. Not much orange flavor, but i just bought random oranges at Safeway and zested them.

All in all, a very good beer that accomplished the goal.
 
How long are you guys fermenting this? I was planning on 2 weeks primary and bottle conditioning for 4 additional weeks. Don't see much point in a secondary since I won't be adding any dry hops. I used US-05 at 64 degrees and gravity is stable at 1.012 after 10 days.
 
yes, your schedule is pretty much what I do. I usually get a quicker primary using S04 yeast, but I bottle few days after FG is a flat line. 4 weeks in bottles should be plenty.
Remember to report back when you taste it.
 
In February I proposed a recipe variant based on reports of thin bodied beers being made from the original recipe I posted.

I made a batch of that recipe, with a few changes, not too long ago. The recipe with the Vienna malt yields a VERY full bodied beer. Too much so, IMHO.

Everyone's system and technique is different and the results of a recipe brewed on one system will be different from almost anyone else.

I have found NO problems, with thin body, mashing the oats with the rest of the grain. I do suggest you give it a try. If, for you, your beer has a thin body, then go for the boiling oats.

The amount of spices used will be different for almost everyone. It appears that no two people are using the exact same spices. Some use pre-ground coriander, some use fresh, some use fresh oranges and zest them, some use pre-ground orange peel. Each variation will require different amounts in the kettle.

I will say that I do agree that 1 ounce of fresh ground coriander is too much.

As a rough guideline, try between 0.25 and 0.5 ounces of fresh ground coriander 10 minutes before the end of the boil. Anything else, you will have to try on your own.

For orange peel, it depends on what state it is in. I used to use very finely ground Valencia orange peel. Perhaps the McCormicks is the closest to that. Other forms of orange peel will require quite a larger amount to get the same amount of flavor. I used a dehydrated, minced orange peel from a local spice shop. Savory Spice

I used 0.3 oz and it was nowhere near enough. I also added about 0.5 oz in a bag in conditioning. It helped, but the amount of orange was quite reduced from Blue Moon. Depending on what form of orange peel you are using, I would suggest starting at 1 oz and adjusting from there.

For my system and brewing style, I believe the first recipe is pretty darn close to reproducing grain portion of Blue Moon. I might even suggest using Pilsener Malt. The Vienna just added way too much fullness and body.

My current suggestion for a homebrew version of Blue Moon would use.

5.5 lbs Weyermann Bohemian Pils malt
4.5 lbs Weyermann Pale Wheat malt
1.4 lbs flaked oats
0.5 lbs rice hulls

Mash at 154F for 60 min. Add 2 gallons 200 F water for mash out to achieve 168F Hold for 10 min.

1.2 oz Hallertauer (4.3 AA) full length of boil 60-90 min.
0.5-0.7 oz fresh ground coriander (10 min before boil end)
1.0 oz sweet or Valencia Orange Peel (amount will depend on how finely ground the spice is and if it is fresh zest or dried) (5 min before end of boil)

I would currently suggest using either US-04 or Windsor dried yeast (rehydrated according to directions on packet) US-05 or 1056 might finish too dry. You do want a little sweetness to get close to current Blue Moon flavor.

For my system and style, I ferment 2 weeks in one vessel and then transfer to another vessel for an additional week of conditioning. I then transfer to a keg and carbonate cold under pressure.

With this last batch, I found the flavor of the beer to have an upfront bitter edge to it for about a month in the keg. This did finally go away and the end result was very smooth. I also noticed this bitterness in another beer I made with the dehydrated peel I purchased from the spice shop. My guess is that some of the bitter pith was included in the peel.

The end result, after 4-6 weeks, in the keg was very pleasing. The body very big, the orange flavor on the low side and it was drier than the current Blue Moon. I think with the changes I listed above and some experimentation on your part, you can come very close to what is being offered in the bars and stores today.

As I have mentioned through out this thread and especially this post, a lot will depend on the exact ingredients you use. This recipe does call for a bit of individual fine tuning for each person's gear and brewing style.

I hope some more of you try this and report back your results.

Cheers,
Wayne
 
In February I proposed a recipe variant based on reports of thin bodied beers being made from the original recipe I posted.

I made a batch of that recipe, with a few changes, not too long ago. The recipe with the Vienna malt yields a VERY full bodied beer. Too much so, IMHO.

Everyone's system and technique is different and the results of a recipe brewed on one system will be different from almost anyone else.

I have found NO problems, with thin body, mashing the oats with the rest of the grain. I do suggest you give it a try. If, for you, your beer has a thin body, then go for the boiling oats.

The amount of spices used will be different for almost everyone. It appears that no two people are using the exact same spices. Some use pre-ground coriander, some use fresh, some use fresh oranges and zest them, some use pre-ground orange peel. Each variation will require different amounts in the kettle.

I will say that I do agree that 1 ounce of fresh ground coriander is too much.

As a rough guideline, try between 0.25 and 0.5 ounces of fresh ground coriander 10 minutes before the end of the boil. Anything else, you will have to try on your own.

For orange peel, it depends on what state it is in. I used to use very finely ground Valencia orange peel. Perhaps the McCormicks is the closest to that. Other forms of orange peel will require quite a larger amount to get the same amount of flavor. I used a dehydrated, minced orange peel from a local spice shop. Savory Spice

I used 0.3 oz and it was nowhere near enough. I also added about 0.5 oz in a bag in conditioning. It helped, but the amount of orange was quite reduced from Blue Moon. Depending on what form of orange peel you are using, I would suggest starting at 1 oz and adjusting from there.

For my system and brewing style, I believe the first recipe is pretty darn close to reproducing grain portion of Blue Moon. I might even suggest using Pilsener Malt. The Vienna just added way too much fullness and body.

My current suggestion for a homebrew version of Blue Moon would use.

5.5 lbs Weyermann Bohemian Pils malt
4.5 lbs Weyermann Pale Wheat malt
1.4 lbs flaked oats
0.5 lbs rice hulls

Mash at 154F for 60 min. Add 2 gallons 200 F water for mash out to achieve 168F Hold for 10 min.

1.2 oz Hallertauer (4.3 AA) full length of boil 60-90 min.
0.5-0.7 oz fresh ground coriander (10 min before boil end)
1.0 oz sweet or Valencia Orange Peel (amount will depend on how finely ground the spice is and if it is fresh zest or dried) (5 min before end of boil)

I would currently suggest using either US-04 or Windsor dried yeast (rehydrated according to directions on packet) US-05 or 1056 might finish too dry. You do want a little sweetness to get close to current Blue Moon flavor.

For my system and style, I ferment 2 weeks in one vessel and then transfer to another vessel for an additional week of conditioning. I then transfer to a keg and carbonate cold under pressure.

With this last batch, I found the flavor of the beer to have an upfront bitter edge to it for about a month in the keg. This did finally go away and the end result was very smooth. I also noticed this bitterness in another beer I made with the dehydrated peel I purchased from the spice shop. My guess is that some of the bitter pith was included in the peel.

The end result, after 4-6 weeks, in the keg was very pleasing. The body very big, the orange flavor on the low side and it was drier than the current Blue Moon. I think with the changes I listed above and some experimentation on your part, you can come very close to what is being offered in the bars and stores today.

As I have mentioned through out this thread and especially this post, a lot will depend on the exact ingredients you use. This recipe does call for a bit of individual fine tuning for each person's gear and brewing style.

I hope some more of you try this and report back your results.

Cheers,
Wayne

Thanks for the updates Wayne. I made one batch loosely based on your original recipe and it actually came out darn good. I didn't have a problem with thin body at all but then again I changed the ratio of wheat/malt/oats somewhat since I was doing a partial mash recipe.

Basically if anyone is interested in a partial mash recipe that is tested and darn good you can go 2.5# 2 row 2.5# white wheat and 14 oz quick oats in the mash 70 minutes at 154. Then add 2 lbs light DME in the boil. I think a point wayne is making again in this post and which he made in previous posts is there is only one hop addition in this brew and that is pretty important for the final flavor if you are trying to match the original. The orange and coriander was very understated with Waynes original recipe amounts but I actually don't have a problem with that. I will probably try 0.25 oz coriander and 0.5 oz McCorrmicks sweet orange peel in the next batch. I actually used Notty for the yeast which worked out well and is probably pretty similar to using the dry Windsor that Wayne mentions.

:mug:
 
I'm very new to the homebrew scene--and can't believe I waited this long. I did a Red Hook ESB clone for numero uno, jumping right into all grain brewing, and then was planning on a Portsmouth Brewery Oatmeal Stout yesterday but did my wife a favor and read through this thread and decided I'd give a simplified version here a go. Basically used 1.5lbs oats, .5lbs rice hulls, in addition to the grains recipe here... I did decided to save 1/4lb of my oats for the boil, no clue why or if it'll change things... stuck with the standard Halltertauer hops pellets, but did 2 oz at 60 minutes... looked awesome by the end. Saw some action about 16 hours later in the airlock, now I'll just let her sit for two weeks or so.
 
Tried my first fully carbonated bottle of Nilo's recipe 4, it's been in the bottles for 2 weeks and the coriander flavor has really mellowed and let the orange peel come through. I did 1 oz dried sweet orange peel from Midwest and the zest of 3 navel oranges. Other posters nailed it on the head when they said that you can't add too much orange. The brew is a big hit, thanks for the great recipe.
 
Tried my first fully carbonated bottle of Nilo's recipe 3, it's been in the bottles for 2 weeks and the coriander flavor has really mellowed and let the orange peel come through. I did 1 oz dried sweet orange peel from Midwest and the zest of 3 navel oranges. Other posters nailed it on the head when they said that you can't add too much orange. The brew is a big hit, thanks for the great recipe.

Did you do recipe #3 or #4?
 
On review it was recipe #4 with substitution for some of the dried orange peel with fresh orange zest (that stuff is expensive). Boiled the 1/4# oats with no problems but some of the orange zest escaped my nylon hops bag and wreaked havoc on my counterflow chiller clogging it a couple times
 
On review it was recipe #4 with substitution for some of the dried orange peel with fresh orange zest (that stuff is expensive). Boiled the 1/4# oats with no problems but some of the orange zest escaped my nylon hops bag and wreaked havoc on my counterflow chiller clogging it a couple times

I was hoping you did #4, by far the best to date. I just tried my #6, a re-do of #4, and it proved to be a winner.
 
My wife and in-laws, who are big Blue Moon fans, couldn't pick out which was the clone. This is definitely going in the rotation of regular brews. I might try to mash the oats next time because the boiling bag with 1/4# oats was a royal pain to clean out, we'll see how it affects the body.
 
Hey! I'm in the minority here and don't have an AG system at home. I'm trying to make a Blue Moon clone for my dad's birthday (unfortunately, its the only "real beer" he will drink), and I was hoping to do a PM version. Has anyone tried to turn Nilo's 3rd or 4th recipe into a PM?I'm not even sure how I would go about trying to convert this recipe myself...
 
I have not brewed extract for a while, but this is what I would do, assuming that I could get extra light and wheat DME.

Steep:
2.0lb crystal 10L in 2gals of water at 155F for 30min

For boil (assuming 5gal batch and 6.5gal boil):
2.0 lb wheat DME
3.0 lb extra light DME
1/2lb flaked oats for last 15min
1oz hallertauer 4% for 1h
Ferment at 67F with S04

OG=1.047
SG=1.012
ABV%=4.4
IBU=14

Of course FG is sometimes hard to predic with extract beers, but I would give it a shot. I remove the dextrin since extract usually provide more un-fermentables.
If you do brew this, report back.
 
Well, being new to homebrewing I made a mistake--I lost a lot in my boil, and decided to simply replace that with water, so my Blue Moon clone turned out almost like a BM light. I don't do light beers, but I tell you what, my wife and her girlfriends love the stuff. Guess it's time to buy a larger boiling pot!
 
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