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Sacreddog717

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I just tried Heretic's Evil Cousin, Jamil’s new brewing co. "Evil Cousin is Heretic's take on a West coast imperial IPA. This beer is a bold, in-your-face hop monster. It has a light, easy drinking malt character that allows the hops to stand out. The hop character in this beer is intentionally on the dank side; big, sticky, and aggressive. This beer is for those of you who can't get enough hops. Join us on the dank side." In-your-face hop monster is right. My first beer tonight was a Pliny and this thing was just as light but bitter. I love me some bitter IPA's but after a Pliny it was really hoppy bitter. Not in a bad way. Just surprising. After a couple sips it was aggressively good. I'll definately go back for more. They just got it in on Tuesday and I'm in the SF Bay are, so it is fresh.

http://hereticbrewing.com/
 
I had some Tafelbully at Blue Palms in Hollywood, CA. It was an interesting beer, a funky Belgian take on a session brew. Definitely one of a kind.
 
I believe I have had Tafelbully. I want it on tap at my house, or at least a clone.
 
At the GABF, I was thrilled to see Jamil's brews there. Evil Twin, Tafebully and Evil Cousin were all there and sampled.

I couldn't have been more disappointed. I really thought Mr. Malty himself would brew better beer. They all ranked as some of the worst I had there. His beers were aggressive and seemed really young to me. Who knows if this is true, but I felt like they'd all be better in few weeks.

I was really shocked about Evil Twin. I've seen a recipe from him with the same name (who knows if it's the same brew) and it was all 20 minute or less hop additions. His thought was to pack it full of aroma and chill out on the bitterness. It was exactly the opposite. Horribly bitter (and I love hops) and strange. I really don't know how else to describe it. I was less than impressed. Way less.
 
I wonder if it was another young batch? I know he wasn't that happy with the NHC kegs and felt they needed a bit more time. I thought the Evil Twin was decent. The Tafelbully was fine, just not my style of beer. I saw him later that week and mentioned that I enjoyed the beer. He was thankful, but you could almost read in his face that he wasn't completely happy with it. I wonder if they're still dealing with timing of their batches and learning how much they need to brew and when in order to keep their pipelines full?
 
Seems like a bad idea to bring beer you weren't really happy with to a place where all sorts of people are going to get their first impressions.
 
I'm a JZ fan, as he is responsible for a bulk of my brewing education. That said, beer at GABF should meet the same standards as the locations that it's served on tap to paying customers. This sounds like QC problems that I can't help but think makes itself into the sold product.
 
sounds to me like a brand new brewery working out their processes and recipes. I hope heretic is successful and can't wait to see it on the east coast.
 
The beers appear very divisive right now.

Evil Twin is indeed all late hops, we are just struggling with the amount of IBUs we are getting from an extended hot stand. We are getting 65-75 IBUs with all the hops going in at 5mins or flameout.

Evil Cousin is intentially aggressive, but just as divisive as the Twin. Not everyone likes dry, dank IPAs or beers made with summit.

I don't know what to say about them being the worst you tried at the GABF unless you let expectations overcome reality. In their current state, I think they are fine beers, and many do seem to enjoy them. We also both believe that all of our beers need work, and will continue to be worked on until both of us believe that they are perfect. So in other words, we will always be tweaking them.

Thanks for your comments regardless, the feedback is useful. I just hope you will give us another try in the future to see if we have improved and more meet your expectations for what JZ's beer should taste like.

And we wouldn't have served beer we weren't happy with. Your opinion on the beer, while perfectly valid and valuable to us, is not universal. While I am sure you are not the only one that hated the beer, there were indeed plenty of people that seemed to enjoy it. But the divisiveness of the beer is certainly not ideal for us as a company.
 
Just goes to show that everyone has their own individual tastes and no one can claim a beer in general is "awful". The beer that you think is awful could be another beer drinker's "desert island" beer. The "one" they couldn't live without. I am sure some of Heretic's beers, just like any brewery, fit this description. I think the thing that Heretic has working against it is that everyone is expecting huge things right from the start!! Jamil is like the top draft pick in the NFL and everybody is "expecting" him to do great things from the start. People are appproaching the beers with so much anticipation that I think it would be hard to live up to the "hype". They want world class beer NOW!! Pretty hard to do....even if you are Jamil.
 
Seems like a bad idea to bring beer you weren't really happy with to a place where all sorts of people are going to get their first impressions.

I think with NHC Jamil had pretty much committed to having it there. So, it might not have been quite where they wanted it, but I thought it was very drinkable.

Chris, thanks for the update! I see that Handles and The Hopyard in my area both have the beer on tap. Glad to see it's getting out there.
 
I think the thing that Heretic has working against it is that everyone is expecting huge things right from the start!! Jamil is like the top draft pick in the NFL and everybody is "expecting" him to do great things from the start. People are appproaching the beers with so much anticipation that I think it would be hard to live up to the "hype". They want world class beer NOW!! Pretty hard to do....even if you are Jamil.

Well said!!!

I can't wait to get my hands on some Heretic brews. I look forward to seeing some out here in Las Vegas.
 
I've had Evil Cousin all over the bay area and it's my favorite IIPA right now. No question. When it's fresh, it's remarkably complex and wonderfully aromatic. I've turned about a half dozen friends onto this beer and they are all head over heels for it. Had it freshly tapped at a Heretic pint night at EJ Phairs in Pittsburg and it was absolutely phenomenal. Got to chat with Jamil for quite a while as well. Super cool dude. Do yourself a favor and give this another try if you weren't super sure about it the first time... It may have been tweaked a little since they first started brewing it. Oh, and if you go to a place that doesn't know how to pour an IPA, ask for some head (wait, that sounded bad)... If you don't, you are missing out on half the fun... The aroma!

Eric
 
Anybody know how far their distribution goes? I'm down in San Diego and haven't seen it around yet...
 
I had this one tonight (well, right now actually). Well made beer. I like it...

However, the hop profile is not "floatin' my boat". The turpentiney/tropical taste I get is not my favorite. I will be easily finishing this beer, and the hop profile is similar to others (Green Flash, for one).

Anyone know what hops this is?
 
Had all three at GABF and was also disappointed (although my expectations were sky high). Tasted a little young, but since it is JZ I have to give the benefit of the doubt. I just hope they taste better next year.
 
Have any of you had any of JZ's homebrews? I think that that would be an area that was fairer to be hypercritical. Jamil's advice has always been specific to homebrewing; commercial brewing is something that's brand new for him, and I would assume requires some getting used to, time to work out the kinks, etc. If his homebrew was disappointing, that would be one thing (and definitley alarming considering the blind faith I exhibit regarding his advice!). But we're talking about his commercial brews, and I for one am willing to give him some time and space to figure things out. I've had the Evil Twin and Evil Cousin (ordered from Beerforia), and have enjoyed both. I trust that, given a few more months or so, Heretic beer is going to get even better.

(P.S.- Has anyone actually had one of his homebrews? As good as I'd imagine?)
 
Finishing off Evil Twin Red Ale: I love this beer!!

Just not a fan of the IIPA's hop choice. Evil Twin rocks, IMO.
 
Reading in Chris Kennedy's post that Heretic's Evil Cousin uses (at least in part) Summit hops. That may be the turn off for some - at least based on my own personal experience with Summit. "Dank" is a good way of describing Summit. This is one hop that I have not been able to wrap my taste buds around.

I tried Oskar Blues Gubna which is brewed exclusively with Summit. Sorry, but the nicest thing I can say about it is that it was not my cup of tea. Choked the 4 pack down because there was no way I was going to pay $10 for a 4 pack of beer and not drink it. Was analogous to drinking malty cold onion soup out of a can. In hindsight, I should have saved it to cook with - the oniony flavor and aroma would have been fantastic in making gravy for a pressure cooked pot roast.
 
I have enjoyed both Evil Twin and Cousin this evening way out in Pennsylvania! Shout out to Heretic and Beerjobber for making that happen. I agree with the idea that the "disappointment" that some describe stems from how dry the beers are. I find them desirable and a sign of great fermentation. Now I will say that I am sampling bottles of Heretic as opposed to on draft in CA. However, these are incredibly fresh samples. My only slight negative was the Cousin was a little high on carbonation. Overall, I think these are two great beers, with a Evil Twin being stellar. Will sample Shallow Grave this week as well. Will re-post.
 
Bump'n this ol' thread -

I'm already a BIG fan of the Evil Twin and finally got to try the Evil Cousin -

BOOOM - Hop Monster for sure. Loved every sip of it. Danky hops is a perfect description. Very well crafted though(genious?). This Evil Cousin was very inspiring to me as a home brewer, as was the Evil Twin.

Heretic is coming to Boise next month - can't wait to hang and do a tasting with them!
 
I just didnt like this beer at all, I am not sure if i got a bad bottle or what. It tasted like it had been dry hopped with onions and garlic. I love me some Pliny the elder, but this was really undrinkable. Is that just the summit hops that I don't enjoy?
 
Evil Cousin is a good DIPA IMO. I do not think it contains Summit as I talked to Chris (the brewmaster at Heretic, Jamil is always out being the salesman/president/PR rep guy) and he said nothing of Summit when I was up there last. My sister lives very close to Handles and I've had it there a number of times. The brunette with the nice rack is a great server (Kara I think). Yum.

It's possible they sneak in a bit of Summit but by no means is it like Gubna. I am a huge Summit hater as previous posts will show. I have been vocal about my hatred for that filthy hop strain. I usually pick it out in a beer, even if it is used very sparingly. I did not get this with Evil Cousin and I have had it on numerous occasions.
 
Irrenarzt said:
Evil Cousin is a good DIPA IMO. I do not think it contains Summit as I talked to Chris (the brewmaster at Heretic, Jamil is always out being the salesman/president/PR rep guy) and he said nothing of Summit when I was up there last. My sister lives very close to Handles and I've had it there a number of times. The brunette with the nice rack is a great server (Kara I think). Yum.

It's possible they sneak in a bit of Summit but by no means is it like Gubna. I am a huge Summit hater as previous posts will show. I have been vocal about my hatred for that filthy hop strain. I usually pick it out in a beer, even if it is used very sparingly. I did not get this with Evil Cousin and I have had it on numerous occasions.

I just had it again at hopyard in Pleasanton. It was ok. Better than the bottle I had. In that it was actually drinkable. There is still a slight garlicky/onion taste to it that I don't love but it at least is an ipa that I can drink
 
Definitely summit in there, but they recently changed the recipe again which I believe contains significantly less summit.
 
Found Heretic is stocked at local liquor store. So far, I've had Evil Twin and Shallow Grave. I was unsure about evil twin at first, but it really got better as I drank it. Good balance. The porter is good also. I have a bottle of the IIPA but haven't had it yet. A little worried bc I usually don't like huge hop profiles. But I will give it a shot.
 
The hop profile for Evil Cousin has changed numerous times since they started. The reason why it initially contained Summit was based mostly on hop availability. When they first started brewing, they hadn't started their hop contracts yet (i.e. Simcoe). They have since dropped the Summit due to the availability of other hops and probably also because of public response (though they have possibly added a bit back in there for the few of us who miss its dankness). In my opinion, the first release of Cousin was the best DIPA I've tasted. It is still one of the best, but whenever I drink the new stuff, it just doesn't hit me like the first few tulips of it I had when they started. It used to have that heretical quality of being nothing like a Pliny clone.

Evil Twin is their best seller. Shallow Grave is just a glorious beer. As a belgian fan myself, I cannot speak highly enough of Heretic's Worry, and I will definitely be there whenever and wherever Torment (their belgian dark strong) is released.
 
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