first runnings?

Howdy! I have been extract brewing for about 6 years now and recently made the jump to 1. all grain, 2.kegging. For my first all grain batch I did a smoked hefeweizen which required a step mash. For the first two steps I mashed and rested in my brewpot...and then raised to 153 for the final half hour in my tun. From my understanding it is proper practice to get your first runnings before sparging. My first runnings were more like a gelatenous mess that was quite viscous and would not run...so i sparged and mixed up my grain bed...recirculated the vorlauf and drained everything. I ended up hitting 1.045 which is a bit shy of the 1.056 the recipe states but I am happy enough. Am I doing something wrong here regarding the first runnings? I am not messing with promash yet although I have the software....so to get my strike volume i multiplied my pounds of grain X 40oz and 64 for the sparge...I hit my mark of 6 gallons in the kettle. I plan on brewing again in a week so I want to get this straight before i proceed! Thanks.

Welcome to the forum!
Did you use rice hulls in your mash? How much wheat did you use? If you post your recipe we can be more help, you may be off on your calculations of a target OG. Just a thought.
Cheers
JJ

hey there thanks for the welcome! I have always surfed around but I was like eh maybe ill post. Here is the recipe:
5.75 lb Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 52.27 %
3.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 31.82 %
1.00 lb Smoked Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 9.09 %
0.75 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 6.82 %
0.75 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 21.4 IBU
0.50 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] (30 min) Hops 5.8 IBU
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Primary 3.0 days) Misc
1 Pkgs Weihenstephan Weizen (Wyeast Labs #3068) [Starter 125 ml] Yeast-Wheat

I just entered that into beersmith and i got an OG of 1.061...hmm. Since I was using the stove to get my temps up as I progressed through the step mash I was thinking that higher temps at the bottom of the pot could have destroyed enzymes. I was mixing pretty vigorously but still noticed some burnt grain on the bottom of the kettle I had to scrape before I started my boil. My main question here is..is it normal for the water to be so viscous before collecting first runnings...bc it wouldnt even run out until i batch sparged and mixed everything up to collect about 6ish gallons. I prob overshot a bit too so im sure my gravity is suffering due to that!

oh and no rice hulls...dont they just serve to get a better grain bed?...as far as the beer goes....its day 3 in the primary...i had to use a blowoff as it was blowin out the airlock after prob 5 hours....I learned very early on to make starters....and BTW I checked out your website...those beer labels are sick man!

I am guessing you are batch sparging then?

If you were planning to fly sparge then you do NOT want to drain the tun before you start your sparge. Too big a risk in compacting the grain bed.

smoked hef. Interesting. I would like to try a sample of this. Is this your recipe?

That's a pretty big percentage of wheat so yeah, rice hulls would have been a great idea. Raising the temp of the mash up to 165-170F before draining would have help also. Removing first runnings prior to doing any batch sparging raises efficiency as does breaking the sparge into two discrete infusions.

I would never raise temps using flame unless you had a false bottom. To step mash, you heat water to a higher temp and then mix it in to achieve the temp you're looking for. I'm guessing you didn't have enough water in there, and that's why it came out so messy.

yeah i dont know...i know for next time. I am going to stick with just doing a single infusion next time. I will definately try to do first runnings before sparging next time. As for the smoked hefe recipe....I grew up in Albany,NY, they have a brewpub called Albany Pump Station....C.H.Evans brewing company. They once brewed a smoked hefe and I had the pleasure of tasting it. Excellent. Even got an A- on BA...although I think it only had a few ratings.

Also, why were you mashing in your brew pot? You don't have a mash tun?

i was mashing in the brewpot because i couldnt think of a better way to do a step mash. I do have a mash tun....50 qt converted cooler. I figured since I was mashing in with X amount of water how was I going to heat that mash up without adding more water....are you saying I could add 1/3rd of the total mash water to get the temp to step 1...then add another 3rd to get to step 2...and another 3rd to get to sacc. rest temps?

aaronwillen - Welcome to the forum.
Wheat is a real pain to mash well, get good efficiency, not get stuck sparges, and not end up with a jello running.
With that much wheat, it will turn into a messy jello first runnings.
What I do to step mash is to do deconations (SP), in short, you draw off some runnings, heat it up and add it back into the mash. It can make the final beer a little darker, but not by that much.
Or, you could just do the first step in a smaller pot, then dump it into the mash tun.
One thing I have tried with some success to get around a mash out with large wheat (jello) mashes is to draw some runnings, heat it up in a small pot, then add it back. This can act as a mashout, without compromising water for your sparges. Bobby_M has a great primer on batch sparging, I highly recommend it.

smoked hef. Interesting. I would like to try a sample of this. Is this your recipe?

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I made something like this a while ago as well, simpler recipe though, and I used WB-06
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/obscure-recipe-help-taking-wild-stab-graetzer-87354/

The style is extinct now, and was supposed to be made using 50-60% smoked wheat, but you'd have to smoke your own or just sub in smoked malt. Mine is also 60 IBUs, no idea what OPs is.

aaronwillen said:

oh and no rice hulls...dont they just serve to get a better grain bed?...as far as the beer goes....its day 3 in the primary...i had to use a blowoff as it was blowin out the airlock after prob 5 hours....I learned very early on to make starters....and BTW I checked out your website...those beer labels are sick man!

Click to expand...

Any beer with that amount of wheat I would recommend a handful or 2 of rice hulls, they are going to give you less chance of a stuck sparge. If when you started your runnings and found a gelatinous mess coming out you could have just stopped and added a gallon or so of hot (170*) water that probably would have helped. I am not a big advocate of batch sparging myself but there are a bunch of people here on HBT that use the method w/ great results.

Thanks for the shout out on the labels we have worked hard on them and are very proud to show them off.
Cheers
JJ