Thinking about a Marris Otter SMASH... Hops ideas?

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stratslinger

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I want to try my hand at a Marris Otter SMASH. Not sure if I'm shooting more in the realm of a pale or an ESB, but trying to decide on a hop to use.

My options, on hand, are:
- Fuggles
- EKG
- Colombus
- Cascade
- I forget the last, but it's a high alpha bittering, wouldn't really be appropriate anyway

I plan to use London ESB ale yeast, and I'm leaning towards either the Fuggles or EKG and keep this a fully English SMASH, but I'm not entirely sure what to expect out of either of those hops if they're the only thing used.

Suggestions / Recommendations?
 
EKG would get my vote.

I just did an MO SMaSH with 4 1oz additions at 60/10/0/DH. I'm loving it.
 
I would personally do Columbus but that is just because I'm actually not super familiar with them. That said, I did a EKG/MO SMaSH that was pretty damn tasty. I don't really care for Fuggle and don't think they are interesting enough to warrant a SMaSH beer but that might just be me. Those would be at the bottom of my list.
 
I've done MO and Willamette a few times (some with strawberries, some without) and they've always been VERY well received.
EKG would be my first choice, I think the all English idea would be great.
 
OK, I think, after at least a couple folks here seemed to agree, I'm sticking with my gut and going with EKG. I think I'll shoot for something EB-ish (I'll _just_ miss the color by a hair, but that's OK), but it's looking like this:

12lbs MO
1oz EKG @ 60min
1oz EKG @ 15min
1oz EKG @ 5min

mash at 152

Ferment with London ESB

Should turn out 5 gallons of a slightly too pale ESB that hits all the other numbers for an ESB, and sounds like it should meet most of the style guidelines too. I'm really looking forward to trying this one!
 
I think if you do a step mash, you might darken your beer a touch. Try mashing low -- 148 -- then drawing the liquid off, heating it enough to raise your mash up to 156.
 
So I brewed this up today - Marris Otter and EKG. Funny thing though - I've been managing around 72-75% efficiency typically. Today I hit just north of 79%. I was a little shocked when I found that my pre-boil gravity was almost as high as my post boil gravity was supposed to be.

Does anyone here know if it's at all typical to see higher than normal efficiency when mashing only base malt?
 
Adding saffron in your brew after your finished boiling will add a little darker color to your beer. It's not cheap (7$ for .02 oz at trader joes) but you should only have to add around 10 strands to give it that dark color your looking for.
Hope that helps
 
So I brewed this up today - Marris Otter and EKG. Funny thing though - I've been managing around 72-75% efficiency typically. Today I hit just north of 79%. I was a little shocked when I found that my pre-boil gravity was almost as high as my post boil gravity was supposed to be.

Does anyone here know if it's at all typical to see higher than normal efficiency when mashing only base malt?

No, I haven't experienced a higher efficiency when I've mashed only base malt. I wonder if your crush was just a bit finer, or if you had a pH that favored better conversion.
 
Adding saffron in your brew after your finished boiling will add a little darker color to your beer. It's not cheap (7$ for .02 oz at trader joes) but you should only have to add around 10 strands to give it that dark color your looking for.
Hope that helps

I've never added something just to color my beer, but I have to say if you're buying saffron at TJ you're doing it wrong. Swing by an Indian/Middle Eastern grocery store and pay 100x less. While you're there, stock up on all your other Middle Eastern spices (cardamom, cumin, coriander, etc.) for dirt cheap.
 
So I brewed this up today - Marris Otter and EKG. Funny thing though - I've been managing around 72-75% efficiency typically. Today I hit just north of 79%. I was a little shocked when I found that my pre-boil gravity was almost as high as my post boil gravity was supposed to be.

Does anyone here know if it's at all typical to see higher than normal efficiency when mashing only base malt?

Yep. Mashing, you're doing it right. A lot of pro brewers can reach over 80% efficiency.
 
I've never added something just to color my beer, but I have to say if you're buying saffron at TJ you're doing it wrong. Swing by an Indian/Middle Eastern grocery store and pay 100x less. While you're there, stock up on all your other Middle Eastern spices (cardamom, cumin, coriander, etc.) for dirt cheap.

I checked those places and they don't carry small amounts like TJ. They sell .25 oz for upwards of 20$
 
Thanks, I guess, for the advice on the saffron - but I'm really not concerned about the color. I'm just fine with what I'm getting - I'm really only doing this to better educate myself, I guess, on what Marris Otter and EKG both bring to the table, and figured an ESB was a reasonable enough style to aim towards.

I've done a bit of searching, and so far here on HBT and on at least one other forum I've come across a couple of references to other folks who have experienced increased efficiency, not necessarily with base malt only, but more specifically with Marris Otter. In at least one case, it came down to the barley kernels being a little more plump than the 2-row that the folks had been using typically, so they actually got a slightly better crush on the Marris Otter. I'll have to pull out a couple kernels tonight and compare, and if that holds for me, I'll have to experiment with closing the gap on my mill just a little bit next time around...
 
Latest update: I checked gravity on this a couple nights ago - thought it IS awfully early, come to think of it. The beer is still quite cloudy with yeast, and after I reviewed a calendar, I realized it's only really 8 days since I pitched. Anyhoo...

The beer overattenuated. Which is an ongoing problem I've got another thread going on at the moment. So, I overshot my OG, and undershot my FG. This thing is way out of style, ABV wise, for an ESB. And, at the moment at least, I think the aroma might be a little too strong. So, I missed my mark on a couple counts - but it definitely shows signs of being a nice beer, even this early. Sadly, it may not be one my wife will enjoy - not sure she's going to be thrilled with the aroma, but we'll see how that develops, particularly as the yeast continues to drop out.
 
I did a SMASH with Marris Otter and Brambling Cross hops a couple weeks back and it turned out to be a pretty good combo. Looking forward to seeing how this turns out. Make sure to get a picture up to if you're able!
 
Alright, I kegged this up last night, and I'm looking forward to getting some space in my kegerator to give this a good week-long cold crash... After just over 3 weeks in the primary, it's still pretty cloudy with yeast still in suspension. And after washing and harvesting yeast post-racking, I can pretty safely say that most of the flavor that I had previously suspected was "hoppy" was more likely all that yeast in suspension. This was actually the third pitch of this particular strain of yeast (WY1098), and the first time I've noticed it take this long to fully flocculate... Very odd. Depending on how it all turns out, I'm halfway considering dumping the yeast I harvested last night and starting over fresh the next time I want to use the strain. We'll see how it progresses.
 
I guess it may be too late, since you kegged it, but depending on your methods, you could consider dry hopping it now. An overattenuated ESB is very similar to the "historic" type of English IPA, except that the IPA would likely have dry hopping going on. Anyway, only do it if you're not happy with the flavor, obviously.
 
Ive done a MO smash with Columbus. Id suggest something a little less in your face, the Columbus kinda overpowered the biscuit flavor.

I suggest Fuggles!
 
My experience with Maris Otter has often resulted in high efficiency. Brewed an ESB that got me 80% efficiency, and a chocolate orange porter of sorts that used MO as a base and I hit 78%. It's a damn fine grain.
 
Well, I just brewed another beer with Marris Otter this weekend. This time the Marris Otter made up half of my base malt - roughly 36% of my grist. And I hit about 80% efficiency again. The brew I did between this and the SMASH had no Marris Otter and hit my typical 72% almost on the nose. Very curious.

I just put the kegged SMASH, still quite cloudy, into my kegerator. I'm hoping a good weeklong cold crash will get the remaining yeast to drop out and clear this beer up. That's the last time I try to wash yeast from a beer with an OG higher than the 1.060's...
 
I just brewed another batch of my ESB, and after reviewing the brew notes from my first batch, it looks like I actually got 84% efficiency on both batches. For a 5gal batch I use 9# munton's maris otter, and 1# 60L. It was delicious the last time, but I feel like I have a good thing going, so I don't want to alter the grain bill.

For a maris otter smash, I would go for obvious british hops. golding or fuggle. or willamette.
 
To get a little color and still comply with the SmaSh constraint you can always toast a couple pounds of grain, less than 20% total grain bill. Also gives a little flavor depth. I've had good results.
 
Well, I'm revisiting this thread after some lessons learned...

Sadly, no amount of cold crashing will help this beer. I have to bring a sample of it to my LHBS for them to taste and confirm, but I've now brewed a cream ale that's showing very similar results (still very hazy, and showing similar flavor profile, well after primary fermentation and conditioning are complete). From my description, and a little Q&A, the LHBS owner suspects I've picked up a Brett-C infection. Which means a lot of plastics in my brewery have to be replaced. Don't get me wrong - I'll be hanging onto one of the better bottles for some experimentation down the road, and probably the siphon and related equipment, but I need to have fermenters I can trust again.

Sadly, Brett-C (if that's indeed what this is) and floral hops don't appear to play nice together, and this SMASH is just not every gonna come around. The cream ale, on the other hand, is actually quite nice. Not exactly what I was shooting for, but nice all the same. I'll take it. But I've got some shopping to do before I have more than one fermenter that I trust again... Dammit.
 
Well, I'm revisiting this thread after some lessons learned...

Sadly, no amount of cold crashing will help this beer. I have to bring a sample of it to my LHBS for them to taste and confirm, but I've now brewed a cream ale that's showing very similar results (still very hazy, and showing similar flavor profile, well after primary fermentation and conditioning are complete). From my description, and a little Q&A, the LHBS owner suspects I've picked up a Brett-C infection. Which means a lot of plastics in my brewery have to be replaced. Don't get me wrong - I'll be hanging onto one of the better bottles for some experimentation down the road, and probably the siphon and related equipment, but I need to have fermenters I can trust again.

Sadly, Brett-C (if that's indeed what this is) and floral hops don't appear to play nice together, and this SMASH is just not every gonna come around. The cream ale, on the other hand, is actually quite nice. Not exactly what I was shooting for, but nice all the same. I'll take it. But I've got some shopping to do before I have more than one fermenter that I trust again... Dammit.

Can you tell me what cold crashing is?

Thanks for the info on your brew. I am using quiet a lot of plastic too......my fermenter is plastic. I hope the same thing wont happen to me. Keep us updated.
 
Cold crashing is just what it sounds like. Place your fermenter into a refrigerator or ice water bath to drop the temperature quickly. This helps make the yeast drop out of suspension.
 
I just brewed an MO/EKG Smash yesterday on a whim. Everything went well, got about 72% efficiency. Pitched a vial of wlp023 Burton Ale, Never have used this yeast before. A buddy of mine said it can be finicky. Interested to see how this comes out.
 
Cold crashing is just what it sounds like. Place your fermenter into a refrigerator or ice water bath to drop the temperature quickly. This helps make the yeast drop out of suspension.

To make the yeast out of suspension....English is not my 1st language. I understand what you are saying...but I have no clue what this so-called "cold crashing" achieves. Can you explain this to me in a few lines? Thanks.
 
I just picked up a 55 lbs sack of MO last week. I've got some Falconers Flight (I know it's a blend), Simcoe, Citra, "Centenial Type", Nugget, Spalt, and still have some HBC 342 (is that the Mosiac?). I was thinking of MO/HBC 342 first.
 
To make the yeast out of suspension....English is not my 1st language. I understand what you are saying...but I have no clue what this so-called "cold crashing" achieves. Can you explain this to me in a few lines? Thanks.

Quickly lowering the temperature causes the yeast to become dormant. When yeast cells are dormant, the fall to the bottom of the beer. It also helps other haze producing materials, especially proteins, to drop out of suspension.

I'm no scientist, but I believe the process is that by reducing the temperature, certain larger molecules become less soluble, and they then clump together as gravity drags them to the bottom of your fermenter.

The easiest way to do is just put your fermenter into your refrigerator.
 
I don't want to hijack the thread -- there are plenty of threads on the subject -- but yes, I do try to do it on every batch. It helps me get clearer beer and gets it ready to drink sooner. Essentially it is a substitute for secondary fermentation.
 
Back to the original topic... I made attempt #2 at this, now that attempt #1 has been actually diagnosed. I took a sample to the LHBS last weekend to get checked out, and it turns out I had a lacto infection. It would seem I was milling my grains just a bit too closely to where I was both aerating and pitching yeast into my fermenters, which happens to be the same damn spot where I rack my fermenters to kegs... However, since I've left the original SMASH alone, and have been a bit lazy about dumping it, it's actually turned a corner - the lacto infection has actually produced a quite pleasant tartness at this point. I kinda dig it, and will put this back on tap once I get the room.

But today's effort will go for a clean ferment - I milled outside, completely separate from my brewing area, and completely separate from my packaging/aerating/etc area, so I should be OK so long as there's no residual lacto floating around in the air in my basement... The brew day itself went pretty well, though I didn't boil off quite as much as I wanted to, and so I missed my target OG by about 4 points. I'll take it though. Now to keep it all clean and sanitary...
 
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