My new brew system, a brutus 10 with some nice modifications

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Yepper... you have the switch wired wrong. Just go down to Radioshack and throw down the $3 for a SPDT. :)

Well, I went and got an actual spdt switch to test it out. Put it in, made the connections, and tested it with the meter. Output of the switch was 82V. :confused:

So, I just started measuring voltages all through the circuit, and then decided I'd connect the output of the switch to the grounding bus instead of the neutral bus. 27V. That solves it! It works for the dpdt switch too. I realized I had connected the ground wire from the 24V side of the transformer to the ground bus, which I've got the 120V ground wire attached to. My 24V coaxial panel mount neutral wires were attached to the 120 neutral bus. So, all I have to do is move those to the ground bus and it will work.

One question though, is why is there a 50-ish volt drop from the 120 neutral bus to the 120 ground bus? I thought the ground wire was just extra protection and that there wasn't any voltage between the two. Does this mean I have something else wired incorrectly?

Also, it is fine that I have my transformer's 24V ground connected to the 120V ground, right?
 
Alright so now I've got some really strange problems. I've got the voltage problem figured out with the switch, but I can't get the pid to turn off when it's supposed to.

It will measure about 27v from pin14 to the 24v terminal while the pid relay is on, then only drop to 24v when it turns off. That's not right, is it?
 
All painted up, reassembled and ready to brew this weekend! Woohooo!:ban:
Reassembledandreadytobrew.jpg
 
I've been looking through these control boxes and haven't seen where everyone is wiring their ground. I have an extra terminating block and can have that as the common ground for everything. Is this right or do I only need to ground the main power coming in? That doesn't seem right as my pumps have to be grounded as well.
 
ground EVERYTHING. the case. the door. all the grounds for all outlets and devices. ground your kettles if they're electric. and GFCI is a must.

i used a terminal block for grounds, hots and neurtrals. made things much easier than trying to tie everything together.
 
Sweet, that's what I did. I have a terminal block for hot, neutral, ground and for 24V. Actually, I was given all of these electrical components by a friend so my ground and 24V are on the same block since it has about twenty terminals on it.
 
Hi all - I am building a classic Brutus 10 and using Josh's Auber PID approach. I do not yet have the Auber SL-2362 (but do have the instruction manual.) I am not a electrician but can figure some of this out. Having said that I have some basic questions:

1. How is the transformer wired? I have a 24v20a additive transformer and know I have to tie the 8 and 16v terminals together to get 24v and assume these are tied together to the 24v barrier strip but where is the neutral in the circuit? (Let me know if my assumptions are wrong.)

2. Speaking of the neutral, can I use the same Radio Shack barrier strip for the 110v and 24v neutral?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Bernie
 
Hi all - I am building a classic Brutus 10 and using Josh's Auber PID approach. I do not yet have the Auber SL-2362 (but do have the instruction manual.) I am not a electrician but can figure some of this out. Having said that I have some basic questions:

1. How is the transformer wired? I have a 24v20a additive transformer and know I have to tie the 8 and 16v terminals together to get 24v and assume these are tied together to the 24v barrier strip but where is the neutral in the circuit? (Let me know if my assumptions are wrong.)

2. Speaking of the neutral, can I use the same Radio Shack barrier strip for the 110v and 24v neutral?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Bernie

Ok, I'm not sure about your transformer wiring to get 24V but research it and you'll find out. Now you don't say, but I'll assume that the 24 volts you talk about is DC and NOT AC. If this is the case then there is no "neutral" in the 24Vdc circuit just a positive (+) and a negative (-). The AC circuit has a neutral (not always, but for simplicity your house does) and a HOT wire. You can NOT put the negative (or the positive) of the DC circuit to the neutral of the AC circuit. I'm not sure what the barrier strip you are talking about looks like but just make sure that the two terminals are not connected in any way. I would suggest talking to someone who knows electrical theory before going ahead as you will start to blow you equipment up!

If you post links to your items (or similar) I can help you out with the wiring.
 
The transformer steps down 120Vac to 24Vac for the honeywell valves. Otherwise, I think it would be called a rectifier. You should be able to run the neutrals for your valves to the neutral barrier strip that your 120 is using. There shouldn't be any voltage on that strip anyway.

Edit: My transformer only has the wires on one side for the 120 hot, neutral and ground. The other side I had to attach wires to the post and combine them to make the 24 volts needed which I then ran to my designated 24v barrier strip. From the 24v strip I went to pin 13 on the PID and to the second center post on my DPDT switch. Out of pin 14 on the PID I went to the other center post on the switch. One connection from each side of the switch attaches to the honeywell via a DC connector. This switch configuration allows me to switch from auto to full on to the valves.
 
For the Honeywell, does it matter whether you use the wiring terminals or the screws? It looks like Josh used the terminals but it seems like you could use either... Also, has is it correct that the hot from the Love/PID should go to the TR and the wire from the transformer should go to TH?

IMG_0075.jpg
 
I have a similar question and posted pics of my wiring in the thread in my signature. I'm getting .2Vac on the 24V side of my transformer according to my multi-meter. Also, I wired my 24V hot from the DC connector to the the TR on the valve. The TH on the valve I attached my red wire which is the ground/neutral. Is this right or should I have a lead from my Auber PID going to TR and the 24V off of the transformer going to TH? You'd basically be applying 24V to both terminals when the PID tells it to kick on which doesn't seem right to me.
 
So, I had three bad transformers from two different places...how does this happen? Anyway, I finally have one that's registering at least 24V when I touch the multi-meter to 8V post and the 16V post together (I'm using a tri-volt door chime transformer like this). However, when I connect a wire to each post and join them together, the voltage drops to zero. Also, without the wires connected, the transformer has a nice hum. As soon as I join the wires onto my 24V terminal stirp, the hum goes almost completely away.

Here's another question: Transformer issues aside, I ran a hot 24V line to pin 13 on my Auber 2362 and then ran pin 14 to the auto side of my switch. I then ran a hot 24V line to the 'on' side of my 3-position switch to kick the burner on when I need to bypass the PID. Does this sound right?
 
We are talking 24VAC, not DC on the Honeywells. Make sure you have the correct transformer
(this would work http://www.ebay.com/itm/NIB-Honeywell-Doorbell-Transformer-Pri-115-Sec-24-VAC-40-VA-AT140A1000-/380392505278?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item589128ffbe

the PID (Love, Auber, etc) sends the call for Heat to the TH (thermostat) terminal
the TR terminal is the 24VAC common and can come straight from the transformer.
Since Terminals 13/14 are normally open. (on the SYL2362) Those are the terminals that close on the call for heat. Current will flow.. So if you wire the Hot side of the transformer (Load or R) to pin 13 and wire pin 14 to the TH on the Valve, it will send Hot 24vac on the call for heat. The Common (often the "C" on the transformer) is wired direct to the TR on the valve. Run the Load side of the transformer to your 3 position switch center (often called an HOA, hand/off/auto) and then wire the switched terminal to the TH as well.. When you switch that on it bypasses the PID (like you said) and sends the hot to the TH and opens the Valve at your command.. hope that helps?
Section 10.3 on your instruction manual http://auberins.com/images/Manual/SYL-2362%20instruction%201.6.pdf
 
CollinsBrew said:
So, I had three bad transformers from two different places...how does this happen? Anyway, I finally have one that's registering at least 24V when I touch the multi-meter to 8V post and the 16V post together (I'm using a tri-volt door chime transformer like this). However, when I connect a wire to each post and join them together, the voltage drops to zero. Also, without the wires connected, the transformer has a nice hum. As soon as I join the wires onto my 24V terminal stirp, the hum goes almost completely away.

Here's another question: Transformer issues aside, I ran a hot 24V line to pin 13 on my Auber 2362 and then ran pin 14 to the auto side of my switch. I then ran a hot 24V line to the 'on' side of my 3-position switch to kick the burner on when I need to bypass the PID. Does this sound right?

Not sure what you mean by 'join them together' but if you are connecting the two wires from the output side of the transformer together, you're shorting it out and will not get any voltage. Whether you're doing this intentionally or not, it sounds like this is what is happening.
 
Greetings. I'm shamelessly copying this design because it's phenomenal. jlandin did an amazing job thinking this project through, posting his progress and leaving plenty of breadcrumbs for the rest of us to follow.

I want to do some different things with the control box. I have 2 pumps with plugs attached; and my plan is to build a second, smaller box on the frame with a couple plugs in it as well as the main power supply and the 24v transformer.

I'm going to use relays to switch full 110v to the pumps, but I still need to get at least 85v up to the PIDs.

I have a 15-pin DIN with 18 or 20-gauge wire coming off them I found as a scrap electronics store.

My plan is to carry the low voltage for both relays and the gas regulators, the PID temp sensors signals and the 85v to power the PIDs between the small box on the frame and the main control box with that single cable.

conventional wisdom suggests 85v is going to be a little much for that cable and connector, possibly even at a low amperage.

I'm hoping someone here a little better versed in electronics can provide a little more insight for me.
 
When you say "at least 85 volts" I'm not sure what you mean. You're going to have 110v going though the cable back to the main panel. I'd recommend against running 110v and low voltage signal wires such as RTDs in the same cable. You risk noise issues.

One alternative would be to put a 24 or 12 vdc power supply in the smaller box. You can get 24 or 12 vdc powered PID controllers and supply these with dc power through your cable. You would then be running dc signals back down the cable to your relays to switch the 110v and 24vac Pump and valve power. You would just need to get relays with the appropriate dc voltage coil.

You might not have any problems running 110vac power and low voltage signals in the same cable but I wouldn't risk it.
 
the 85v figure comes from the PIDs I already have; they have a listed operating range of 85-240v if I'm reading it correctly. I had thought about getting a transformer for that, but at that point I think it's more trouble than a second cable to the box for 110vac.
 
midnightbrewing said:
the 85v figure comes from the PIDs I already have; they have a listed operating range of 85-240v if I'm reading it correctly. I had thought about getting a transformer for that, but at that point I think it's more trouble than a second cable to the box for 110vac.

Yep, the 85v is just the minimum it can be powered from. No point in getting a transformer. Just power it with 110v.
 
I seem to remember reading at one time about a length limit on the PID senors; as in they won't work effectively if the cable is longer than 8'.

Checked the manual and can't find any such information, but I know I read it somewhere. Does anyone know about that?

My build uses a 15-pin dsub to go between the control box and a box on the stand; which is where the pumps, sensors etc plug in. the multipin cable is 6 feet (to match the standard power cord) and then the sensor cables are 6 feet as well, for a total of 12 feet, plus a standard terminal connection between the two.
 
copper at 150 meters 0,5 mm2 = 1,35 Ohms ,30 ohm wire at 0.5mm should travel over 150 meters, however, I would say 5 - 10 meters is ok (22 feet) and even if there was a limit, you need to calibrate the sensor with another temp gauge and save that adjustment on your PID.

I seem to remember reading at one time about a length limit on the PID senors; as in they won't work effectively if the cable is longer than 8'.

Checked the manual and can't find any such information, but I know I read it somewhere. Does anyone know about that?

My build uses a 15-pin dsub to go between the control box and a box on the stand; which is where the pumps, sensors etc plug in. the multipin cable is 6 feet (to match the standard power cord) and then the sensor cables are 6 feet as well, for a total of 12 feet, plus a standard terminal connection between the two.
 
INSPIRED!!!! i will be readin this entire post over the next couple days. Ive noticed someplaces where i can save a bit of money and some that will cost me a bit more but this price tag is right along the lines of my budget and i storage is a major issue for me so this rig works great... ordering the pumps now since they are on sale at austin. THANKS
 
There gives two classes of PT 100

Class A:
======
Allowed error: tg = 0,15 °C + 0,002 · |t|
at 100°C +/-0,35°C

Class B:
======
Allowed error: tg = 0,30 °C + 0,005 · |t|
at 100°C +/- 0,8°C

This is the allowed error to DIN standards. Also comes the error of the PID. Error of +/-0,5°C for class A and +/-1°C for class B when using an industry PID regulator.

This includes error because of the resistance of the leads. We need to consider this because of the ohms and I don't think it will come even close to 10ohms at somewhere around 10 meters.
 
jlandin said:
Sure. Given the six posts as:

(Top)
1 2
3 4
5 6
(Bottom)

You want to connect the hot 24V to both 3 and 4. Then connect 1 to the 24V valve so it is activated when your switch is in Down/Fire mode. Then connect 6 to the PID so that it is activated when the switch is in Up/Auto mode. If you are using the same PID I used, 6 would go to PID terminal 13, and PID terminal 14 would go to the 24V valve.

In any case, make sure you use a voltmeter to double check your switch positions are doing what you want.

--
Josh

And the other pins (2, 5) would be the negative, right? For instance, pid #14 goes to tr on the valve, and th goes to pins 2 and 5 on the toggle switch to complete the circuit? It's been more than a decade since circuits class in college.... And I'm struggling to remember how this all goes together.
 
midnightbrewing said:
And the other pins (2, 5) would be the negative, right? For instance, pid #14 goes to tr on the valve, and th goes to pins 2 and 5 on the toggle switch to complete the circuit? It's been more than a decade since circuits class in college.... And I'm struggling to remember how this all goes together.

Wait... I'm over thinking it. The th return just goes back to the transformer.
 
I am confused about one thing, does the honeywell pilots have electronic ignition or is this manual?

Thanks,
-G
 
I am confused about one thing, does the honeywell pilots have electronic ignition or is this manual?

Thanks,
-G

You have to light these pilots manually, either with a lighter or some other ignition source, once lit they will stay lit throughout your brew day (until you turn them off or run out of propane) and will fire your burners when they receive fuel.
 
You have to light these pilots manually, either with a lighter or some other ignition source, once lit they will stay lit throughout your brew day (until you turn them off or run out of propane) and will fire your burners when they receive fuel.

Thanks,
So a electric BBQ igniter with outputs to each pilot should work.
That is what I will plan for.

Thanks again,
-G
 
So I think I am going to go LP until I actually buy a house which hopefully has either NG or I can go electric.

I didn't see in your build how you went from High Pressure Propane down to LP pressures. Did you use a
certain regulator to get it down to those pressures? On my High Pressure Propane to my BG-14 it is a 0-40psi
regulator. Also what are you using for fine tuning the flames? I was thinking about trying to incorporate needle
valves after the regulator.

One last question for now, how fast do you go through tanks?

Thanks,
-G
 
Here's my shameless copy of JLandin's design. We did it with as much metal on-hand as we could, and without welding shut the gas manifold (1" pipe) instead, but it's looking great! this is the view from the back.

Yes, those are Seattle Seahawks colors! I'll post more pics and some specifics on changes I made once I get everything plumbed in and put together.

Thanks to all for being so open and helpful in these forums. this isn't possible without this site and its contributors.

8047932219_b569936007.jpg
 
I posted this is the 'automated brewing' subforum, but thought I'd post it here too since most of you have been using this exact model.

I can't get any gas through the VR8200 furnace valve. below is my post from yesterday:

---------------

I've got pilot lights on the HLT and MT no problem, but I can't get the honeywell solenoids to fire when given 24 vac. I've taken readings at all the right spots in my build and gotten the right voltage (28vac coming off the 24V transformer I'm using) and things are wired properly.

I'm using this regulator at the tank http://www.tradezz.com/buy_3055290_Low-Pressure-Regulator.htm sold at home depot under the brinkmann name. seems like everything should work fine, but I get no gas through the regulator at all upon the 24vac call for it.

the regulator is 11" WC which should be no problem... my BG14 burners have been converted to LP (the BK burner, which is just on a 1-30 psi regulator so I have some control works just fine) but I'm totally stumped at this point.
 
Do you have a pilot burner and a thermocouple connected to the valve? Without a thermocouple to verify the pilot flame, the valve will not open. Also, do you have the off/pilot/on knob set to on?
 
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