My brother owns a local bar. I've begun brewing beer as a hobby. He has a class D5 liquor license. Would I be able to give my beer to my brother to sell at his bar? I've looked at the details of liquor/manufacturing licenses but since this is kind of a complicated situation I cant find anything regarding it. I'm not technically selling it, and my brother isnt manufacturing it. Thoughts?
Selling homebrew through local pub
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mscott5205
Active Member
Its illegal.
Yep. You have to be a licensed brewer to sell your product, even indirectly. Your brother could face serious fines and lose his liquor license if you did that.
here's a good writeup: http://www.ehow.com/how_7985024_sell-homemade-beer.html
lumpher said:
No offense that's hardly a good write up. That makes it sound WAY to easy. You have to jump through way to many hoops. You need official labels registered upcs, automated bottling lines and so much more. There's a nice write up of someone who opened a microbrew on here. Believe he ended up getting away from it. If I find the article I'll share it
Phunhog said:Nope....not a chance in hell. YOU have to be licensed as well as your brother. MUCH easier just to give it away(but not at his bar) and sell t-shirts to recover your costs..
I believe if brewed at the bar it could be given away. As you can't transport beer out of the dwelling it was brewed at in some states.
It really just depends on the state. In Oklahoma (where I am from) it just has to be made on site in order to be sold there (for a bar who already has a liquor license). I would suggest just familiarizing yourself with your local laws and go from there...
That wouldn't fly. In reality you are still selling the beer.
Though it can be done. There are just a lot of licensing hoops to jump through.
I had some friends start up one in Nebraska. First, they had to comply with local zoning...which they were already zoned commercially. Next, they had to comply with all of the health and food safety laws. They also had to get their "manufacturing" license, both federal and state. They have to keep track of how many gallons, etc are produced for the alcohol taxes. I'm guessing they had roughly $3K in permitting. This was all to sell the beer to the bar. This doesn't include any insurance, LLC formation, etc that they did as well. Lot of upfront startup costs to say the least
Another issue:
http://com.ohio.gov/liqr/about.aspx
In Ohio, after running through all the federal & state hoops to become a licensed brewery, you then need to sell through a distributor. Meaning you can't sell your beer to your brother. You HAVE to sell your beer to a distributor who then sells it to your buddy. Will any distributor want to sign a contract with you for distribution for such a small operation? Not likely...
Ohio *might* have a brewpub exemption to this, but I think then you'd most likely have to brew your beer on-site at his bar... Which opens up all sorts of other licensing, possibly zoning, equipment/safety/etc rules that he may not want to deal with.
http://com.ohio.gov/liqr/about.aspx
In Ohio, after running through all the federal & state hoops to become a licensed brewery, you then need to sell through a distributor. Meaning you can't sell your beer to your brother. You HAVE to sell your beer to a distributor who then sells it to your buddy. Will any distributor want to sign a contract with you for distribution for such a small operation? Not likely...
Ohio *might* have a brewpub exemption to this, but I think then you'd most likely have to brew your beer on-site at his bar... Which opens up all sorts of other licensing, possibly zoning, equipment/safety/etc rules that he may not want to deal with.
MisterTipsy
Well-Known Member
Brew your beer at home and sell it to your mom who will sell it to her mom who will sell it to your brother. The Feds will be baffled.
I've been to a bar in Columbus, OH and they have homebrewing contests and the winner gets their beer put on tap. HOWEVER, I believe they just use the winning recipe and do the actual brewing themselves due to all the regulations mentioned.
Eric
This is normally how it's done in these types of competitions.
Many states have the same 3 tier system as Ohio.
In Chicago I will be attending a festival and this year there will be no Homebrew tent because they found it was illegal to provide the Homebrew to the paying attendees because the homebrewer's are not licensed to sell the beer with the state
Many states have the same 3 tier system as Ohio.
In Chicago I will be attending a festival and this year there will be no Homebrew tent because they found it was illegal to provide the Homebrew to the paying attendees because the homebrewer's are not licensed to sell the beer with the state
ReverseApacheMaster
Well-Known Member
I would also assume this is the case.
itsbeeryo
Well-Known Member
HAH, I don't think even that is very baffling. He sold it to his mom = busted.
MisterTipsy
Well-Known Member
His mom is not a Rat!
itsbeeryo
Well-Known Member
LOL; I know my mom would throw me under the bus when she's getting pressed by the gov't. Thanks mom!
MisterTipsy
Well-Known Member
Well, it's about time you investigate other alternate sources of income.
Maybe you could buy some ocean and start a shrimp farm, for example.
Maybe you could buy some ocean and start a shrimp farm, for example.
I´m not saying it´s right, but things work very differently here in Mexico. Yeah, I know...
But still, there are dozens of brewers, tiny brewers with as little as 5 gallon equipments who label and sell their brews through Bars, restaurants and even chain beer stores Nationally. There are rules and regulations regarding selling alcoholic beverages of course, but this homebrewing movement is so tiny compared to Macro breweries that Government just doesn´t pay attention. We pay no taxes and if we did, there wouldn´t be any margin to call this a business.
I also sell it to friends, friends of friends and family. I´ve been brewing All grain from day 1, just 6 months ago. Around 26 batches so far, I´ve been selling only the last 4 or so.
But still, there are dozens of brewers, tiny brewers with as little as 5 gallon equipments who label and sell their brews through Bars, restaurants and even chain beer stores Nationally. There are rules and regulations regarding selling alcoholic beverages of course, but this homebrewing movement is so tiny compared to Macro breweries that Government just doesn´t pay attention. We pay no taxes and if we did, there wouldn´t be any margin to call this a business.
I also sell it to friends, friends of friends and family. I´ve been brewing All grain from day 1, just 6 months ago. Around 26 batches so far, I´ve been selling only the last 4 or so.
Why don´t you sell it to friends and family?. I´m not saying you´ll make a living out of it but you could easily get enough to pay your monthly car debt, if you have one. Or household expenses. IMHO
LeBreton
Well-Known Member
Because it's illegal, and the small amount of money you're going to make will not cover the large fines and possible jail time if you get caught.
ChrisVZ
Well-Known Member
Maybe instead of selling it at the pub, you could start a homebrew trading club that meets there. You still wouldn't be able to charge money for them, but you could build up a nice variety of unique beer, meet other home brewers, and increase traffic in your brothers bar.
No doubt it's illegal....I have serious doubts though that anyone would take the time/money to actually prosecute someone. It's along the same lines of kids selling baked goods at a lemonade stand. There is no doubt that it is illegal but no one wants to spend the time/money to enforce the law.
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Except you can find plenty of cases of cops busting lemonade stands.
Nightshade
Well-Known Member
Until the bar undergoes a state audit and they see the numbers don't match from the distributor
State audits are not rare in the beer and liquor industry and if caught the bar and the homebrewer both get screwed under the same action.
No it's not like a lemonade stand. It's alcohol in a commercial establishment serving the general public. Odds are that the first beer salesman that figures out non-taxed, illegal beer is being sold on his turf will drop a dime. The pub stands to land in more hot water than the homebrewer starting with his local and/or state serving license.
Maybe where you live.....I can't imagine the s*&tstorm that would follow if my local PD tried to book some kids into juvenile hall for selling cookies and lemonade.
I'm sorry I didn't realize that they were selling it in commercial establishment. Yes...absolutely that is wrong! The "lemonade stand" comment was in respect to someone selling some to his neighbors.
drives_a_bike
Well-Known Member
I live in south Dakota and recently a friends father-in-law bought a local bar and put him in charge of the place. He said he would be totally up for selling me and my buddy's beer, so I looked into it. My buddy and I would have to get a manufacturing license and a distribution license. Which in SD only runs about $900 a year.
Not to mention hammering out a few flagship beers...and we'd need a place to brew that would pass health inspections (I doubt my shop would pass). Seem more trouble than it's worth for now.
Not to mention hammering out a few flagship beers...and we'd need a place to brew that would pass health inspections (I doubt my shop would pass). Seem more trouble than it's worth for now.
stinkmuis
Well-Known Member
best and only way to do this, is to find yourself a micro brewery that have all the licences. talk to the owner and ask of he is willing to brew your recipe in small volumes. Then buy it from them for a good price. that way you are just a reseller and can trade your one beer with al the licences and taxes covert
aiptasia
Well-Known Member
Just give it away after hours. Call it a free pour.
My local brewery also has a homebrew shop attached to it. I think it would be a great marketing tool to have one homebrewer per month brew up a pilot batch and sell it in the tasting room. Of course it would have to be brewed on their pilot system vs. your home system. It would encourage people to get into the hobby since they can taste how good "homebrew" can be.
JeepDiver
Well-Known Member
No it doesn't just have to be made on site. It has to be made on site by a federally licensed brewery. So they don't just make homebrew and sell it, or if they do they better not get caught.
JeepDiver
Well-Known Member
Unlicensed beer in the bar will get his liqour license pulled, and possibly have him facing jail time, even if it is after hours
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