1st lager, what the heck??

Ok, so I'm brewing an Oktoberfest this weekend and I put the recipe into beersmith. I'm basically COPYING it out of Brewing Classic Styles. I don't want to futz with coming up with anything new, just want to ferment a nice Oktoberfest, and Jamil and Co. usually know what their doing.

Anyway, I enter the numbers and my OG comes out to 1.070+. The recipe says 1.055. WTH?? I mess with some settings and I get numbers all the way from 1.070 + to 1.066.

So I mash with a bit more water, and give it plenty of sparge. I get 1.40 into the boil and boil for 90 minutes, as I am using Pilsner malt for a bit of the fermentables. I end up with 6.5 gallons of 1.058 wort...

I thought about adding some water to top off, but I didn't have any boiled and sanitized water on hand. I guess it will be ok. Except I forgot the Irish Moss again!!

I had a 1.6L starter ready and in the fridge to acclimatize. Pitched it the next morning cause the wort was still not down to 50. We'll see what happens.

I had about 1.5 gallons of wort extra so I put it in a 3 gallon carboy and added some Notty.

Anyway, how could the numbers be so far off? I've never had beersmith be off more than what a bit of tweaking to match my process would account for!

Brewing Classic Styles has all 6 gallon recipes. If you're making 5 gallons, just scale it down. I think it's 70% efficiency or so, also. That could be a factor.

Yooper probably nailed it. Also, in Beersmith, did you check boil-off rate?... Loss To Trub?... Potential Yield of the Pilsner/Munich malts?

Don't worry about the Irish Moss. I never add kettle finings to my lagers and they always come out plenty clear. The lagering process takes care of that. It also helps to have a good hot and cold break during/after the boil.

It will be better, stronger beer IMHO.

Don't sweat it.

Yooper said:

Brewing Classic Styles has all 6 gallon recipes. If you're making 5 gallons, just scale it down. I think it's 70% efficiency or so, also. That could be a factor.

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Oh, sht.. I think you are right. I entered it as 5. I did change to 6, but probably had not made all the right adjustments at the same time. Good info to know!

Yeah, it was only a bit stronger than the recipe. Problem is I wanted a lighter beer this time. But it's not THAT strong anyway.

I did not adjust boiloff rate because it had been good where it was before and although it's winter, I thought it would be easier to just plan on a bit more water and keep an eye on it.

I was thinking about adding more water, but I didn't know how much room I needed for headspace. This was going to ferment in the garage and I didn't want a huge mess in the freezer since I can't keep an eye on it. I don't "think" that lagers blow off as much, but then I thought it might be neat to put the extra in a different fermenter and do it up as an Ale.

I pitched yeast about mid-day, and by evening I still saw no signs of bubbles. Not exactly what I had expected, considering the size of the starter, but I am a Revving this one. I bet by the time I get home tonight it's going like crazy.

The Notty got pitched early evening and by bedtime was already starting to chug along!

Wait, what? Your first lager, and you pitched Notty? Still not your first lager then.


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I made a partial mash verision Jamil's Oktoberfest from 'Classic Styles' yesterday as well.

One small change I made was using 14 oz. of sparkling amber DME to cover 1 lb of the Munich LME called for in receipe.

Anyway, I proceeded without realizing it was a 6 gallon recipe so only diluted it out to 5 gallons. My OG ended up being 1.060 rather than the expected 1.055, now I know why.

I pitched my Bavarian Lager yeast at 50 deg. last night. This morning there was only a small bit of action on airlock. Hopefully when I get home tonight it will be rocking.

wildwest450 said:

Wait, what? Your first lager, and you pitched Notty? Still not your first lager then.


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No, I pitched a White Labs Oktoberfest in the 5 gallons in the garage.

The Notty went into 1.5 gallons in the back bathroom.

This way I can compare the two yeasts.

Next up is a Bo-Pils for my buddies. I tasted one at Herford and Hops last summer and really liked it. So much more flavor than I expected for a beer that light. But I didn't have any of that yeast, so the Oktoberfest got the call-up.

I actually have a pouch of Wyeast American Lager in the fridge and want to build up a starter and brew that next, but I haven't found a recipe yet. Any suggestions? I want to use Corn, I know that much.

Homercidal said:

No, I pitched a White Labs Oktoberfest in the 5 gallons in the garage.

The Notty went into 1.5 gallons in the back bathroom.

This way I can compare the two yeasts.

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My bad, I missed that part, carry on.


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Also as a bonus, my mom gave me an old Mirro Pressure Cooker so I can wash my yeast and sterilize the stuff it goes into. I want to try freezing some washed yeast.

She couldn't find the pressure weight though, so now I'm hunting for a deal on Ebay...

1.6 L isn't that big of a starter for a lager. I typically do two packages in 2L on a stirplate for a 12 plato lager (always start with one around that strength).

With that starter, pitching at 44 and setting the temp controller to 48 I see low krausen at 24 hours roughly.

Not only is yeast metabolism slowed at low temperatures but co2 solubility increases. Krausen and airlock bubbles are both symptoms of co2 solubility having been exceeded and excess co2 leaving solution.

If you used the white labs 820 be prepared for a long primary. That yeast is slow. i will never use it again.

dave5155 said:

If you used the white labs 820 be prepared for a long primary. That yeast is slow. i will never use it again.

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AW sht... Yes, I believe that was the yeast. I don't mind a long primary, but I"m very used to having my yeast start withing a couple of hours now.

I checked when I got home yeasterday and nothing was happening. I popped the top on the bucket to see if there were any visible signs, but it looked like wort. I supposed I'll just have to wait it out. I'm pretty sure the yeast is alive, so the waiting game begins.

The Notty portion is bubbling nice and slow, but that's what I'd expect from a 1.5 gallon batch at the temp is at. I like using the back bathroom now because I can watch the bubbler while doing my thing...

I just noticed that White Labs also recommends a temp of 52-58, instead of 50-55 for most of the other lager yeasts. I should go turn up the heat a few degrees. I had the controller set at 47 to counter the fermentation heat. If the yeast took too long to get started, it might be too cool to get it going.

Quit popping the top.

cheezydemon3 said:

Quit popping the top.

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I did it ONCE!!


Sheesh!

Just went out to check the beer and turn up the heat and the airlock is full and burping! :rockin:

So I left the temp where it was...

Homercidal said:

I just noticed that White Labs also recommends a temp of 52-58, instead of 50-55 for most of the other lager yeasts. I should go turn up the heat a few degrees. I had the controller set at 47 to counter the fermentation heat. If the yeast took too long to get started, it might be too cool to get it going.

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I am using this yeast now for an Oktoberfest. I had a recommendation from my LHBS to start fermentation warm at around 65-68 for 24 hours to get the yeast going and then drop it to normal temps (around 52 or so) which I did. After searching around a bit on this yeast I don't see anyone else doing this method. I wouldn't expect any off flavors from the warmer start but I wonder if I will need a D-rest still.

That is the reason I started low. I read up on the lagering a bit before trying and several places mentioned that a lot of the brewers are starting low instead of starting higher and dropping. It's supposed to eliminate the need for a D-rest.

I tasted the "extra" wort that got fermented with Notty in the house and it's pretty good. The Oktoberfest is technically ready, but I need to finish the IPA and the brown ale in the kegerator to make room for this and the Wit I recently made. Until then, it's going to stay in the ferm chamber and continue to lager. I'm anxious to try it though!

I am going to want to try making an American or European Light Lager next, for my homies.

Marzens (okt) are supposwed to lager until September.

cheezydemon3 said:

Marzens (okt) are supposwed to lager until September.

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Hell with that!

Lol. To each their own, but I plan to cold store mine until September!

(1st lager indeed!)