Rate this restaurant beer menu.

I'm going to thow down some local restaurant beer menus and get your reactions for a potential project I'm working on.

Give me your comments and gut reactions and maybe a figure from 1 to 100. I'll post some more later.

Cuisine: Italian

Beers
Tap
Peroni,
Guinness,
Black and Tan,
Mothership Wit,
Bass,
Stella Artois

Bottles
Amstel Light
Newcastle
Grolsch Light
Anchor Steam
Heineken Light
Budweiser
Bud Light
Samuel Adams
Coors Light
Fat tire
Karlovačko
Shiner Hefeweizen
Nikšićko
Red Stripe
Okocim
Four Peaks Kiltlifter (local)
Woodchuck Cider
Heineken
Chimay Red
Corona

With the fairly solid bottle options, I would give this a 70-75

My score was based on the restaurant's choice to carry a local brew.
And the fact that do offer enough to please just about any beer drinker

Why not replace the black and tan pre-mix tap with Harp. Gives you an additional mid weight beer option and stil allows you to mix the black and tan at the taps.

Also might want a light beer on tap. They are pretty popular, and you'd likely have a better profit margin on the light on tap vs the bottle.

Maybe just personal preference, but I would include Sierra Nevada Pale in bottles. Crisp, light, and hoppy would compliment many Italian dishes, and it is almost a mainstay Pale Ale these days.

Not too bad, Seems a little light in hoppy beers; there's a couple in there I don't recognize (Peroni, Okocim) but nothing that looks anything like an IPA. Something like a simple SNPA would flesh out the roster. Is this a recent list? Doesn't look too seasonal; I'm like to see something that's more fall-oriented, I'm not all that interested in a wit on draft in November (of course, I'm also not in Arizona).

Would definitely find something good to drink, but I've seen better. Maybe 65-70?

EDIT: You know what else would be nice this time of year? I think it was this, Moretti La Rossa Birra Doppio Malto, a very malty, dopplebock-ey Italian beer. Be nice to have as the weather cools off, and having a couple of Italian beer selections would be nice.

On tap- i think Stella will be the top seller. not sure how well the others will do.

Aren't these all about the same?
Amstel Light-- Grolsch Light -- Heineken Light.

dunno, but maybe they drink more light beers in AZ given the weather (?)

Nice early comments. Exactly what I'm looking for.... keep em coming.

I'll give it a 50-55 just because 10-14 of those selections are either BMC or the euro version's of BMC

I am basing this with 100 being a perfect beer selection at a restaurant

The Peroni is an Italian lager, right?

I'd give it a 75. Not great, but pretty good for a restaurant.

For any restaurant in SW Texas, this would be off the charts. But, for what I'm guessing is an upscale Italian joint in Phoenix, it's slightly above average.

I would give it around a 60-65. There's plenty there that I would drink and probably find enjoyable. Standouts include the Chimay Red (but it would depend on the price offered), the Mothership Wit, and Anchor Steam. I have not tried the Four Peaks, but I have heard good things about the brewery. I have not had the opportunity yet to sample some of the offerings such as the Okoci, Karlovačko, and Nikšićko but online ratings do not produce favorable experiences. A downfall is the repetition of the light lagers, but is expected in the majority of public dining establishments.

To improve the menu, in this homebrewer's eyes, inclusion of more Belgian offerings could tie together an Italian meal quite well. While the Wit would play well with light oil based sauces and perhaps cream sauces, something like a Saison with perky carbonation could do a good job of cutting through the fats in the meal. To another extent, some more malt-forward beers would give a good experience to any "red" component of the menu: complimenting the acidity of any tomato-based product and working together with meat such as ragu or braised short ribs.

EDIT: the_bird's comments about the hoppy component certainly should draw some improvement. I didn't think of it. I too, have also heard good things about the Moretti line-up.

50 - for mainly corporate beer and nothing terribly interesting - surprised not to see SNPA on a list like that

Tap selection seems a bit ordinary/boring. Drop the black & tan and maybe add a seasonal? And, switch the Peroni to bottles to free up another tap - Italian's aren't really known for their beer.

The bottle selection also seems very mainstream (though there are a few I've never heard of). I'd mix in some selections from Sierra Nevada, Dogfish Head, Brooklyn, Harpoon.

On beer selection along, I'd give it a 40 - it's not a place I would go to for beer.

I dont see how everyone is giving such poor reviews. Remember it is an italian restuarant, not a flying saucer or gingerman.

I´d give it 85-90

(Please show me another italian restaurant with a better selection, if it exists.)

pdbreen said:

Tap selection seems a bit ordinary/boring. Drop the black & tan and maybe add a seasonal? And, switch the Peroni to bottles to free up another tap - Italian's aren't really known for their beer.

The bottle selection also seems very mainstream (though there are a few I've never heard of). I'd mix in some selections from Sierra Nevada, Dogfish Head, Brooklyn, Harpoon.

On beer selection along, I'd give it a 40 - it's not a place I would go to for beer.

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They can't really drop the Black and Tan: it is from the Guinness and Bass, both already available.

I would also disagree about moving the Peroni to bottles. Because of the Italian thing, that beer is going to sell well, and having it on tap would ensure a superior product. Peroni, after all, comes in green bottles on a Trans-Atlantic voyage.

going off of the beer selection I am willing to bet that the wine list is very impressive as well

PseudoChef said:

I would also disagree about moving the Peroni to bottles. Because of the Italian thing, that beer is going to sell well, and having it on tap would ensure a superior product. Peroni, after all, comes in green bottles on a Trans-Atlantic voyage.

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That's my thinking, too. I'm not a lager fan (and I would guess especially not an Italian lager fan), but I might try it.

I gave it a 75 because to me, it's a pretty impressive lineup for a "normal" restaurant.

However, in an Italian restaurant, I would always order a red wine with my dinner anyway. So, as much as I LOVE beer, the beer would only be while perusing the menu, or maybe during the appetizer.

PseudoChef said:

They can't really drop the Black and Tan: it is from the Guinness and Bass, both already available.

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Doh! Having it listed had me scratching my had trying to think how you'd pull a black and tan through a single tap - but of course you're right.

Descent selection for the standard set of beers. It basically looks like they have the most common beer in quite a few categories but nothing out of the norm per se. I am sure this is good for 95% of the population but I don't see much in the way of anything bitter, I don't recognize some of the bottle names so I could be wrong there.

It really looks like they are selling to a typical Italian restaurant crowd and not trying to please a beer connoisseur.

I am going 75, there is plenty of beer, just not much style variation.

YooperBrew said:

However, in an Italian restaurant, I would always order a red wine with my dinner anyway. So, as much as I LOVE beer, the beer would only be while perusing the menu, or maybe during the appetizer.

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Agreed. For me, Italian is the least beer friendly meal. It is made for red wine, however.

I'm revising down.

Three of the beers I don't know - Karlovačko, Nikšićko, and Okocim - seem to be Eastern European lagers. Redundant with the other light lagers. If you LIKE these beers, rotate them through. I'd want to try them all, but that's not the same as offering a diverse selection.

Seems almost like the tendency is to offer beers from many different countries, but offering just a light lager from that country.

Peroni - Italian light lager
Stella - Belgian light lager
Okocim - Polish lager
Karlovačko - Croatia/Bosnia-Herzegovina; "golden-yellow" in color and "refreshingly" bitter
Nikšićko - lager from Serbia and Montenegro
Mexico - Corona
Jamaica - Red Stripe

Amstel Light
Grolsch Light
Heineken Light
Budweiser
Bud Light
Samuel Adams
Coors Light
Heineken


I'm giving them a 55. Some interesting beers, but not enough different types, and missing styles and flavors that would be good with the food offered and with the seasons.

It's just a selection of "Light Lagers From Around The World!"

olllllo said:

Tap
Black and Tan,

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How can you have "Black and Tan" on tap? A black + tan is usually Guinness plus Bass, with the Guinness on top. Or do you mean that since they have Guinness and Bass on tap they can make a Black + Tan?

Where's the hops?

To put in my 2 cents, since you asked how we'd rate it, I'd say fairly poor - like 4 on a 1-10 scale. I usually ignore the bottle selection since at most of the restaurants I go to they already have a number of good beers on tap and they have most of their good local microbrew stuff on tap. If I have to go to bottles that's usually a sign of desperation because there were no good choices on tap.

That list has only 1 US beer on tap, and I don't frequently drink the import beers on that tap list because well I've already had them and they aren't that exciting.
For an Italian restaurant I would hope for a good IPA or APA on tap, since I like how those pair with pasta.

Not sure how to rate it.

On one hand, there are about five beers there that I would enjoy. On the other hand, they are not anywhere near my favorites.

So compared to the average restaurant, that's a respectable list. But I tend to seek out and patronize places that have way above average beer lists, so compared to those, it's not very impressive.

I guess I'd give it a 60 on a scale of 100 because it's better than the average restaurant's list.

For me, and I am sure alot of people here, this list is fairly pedestrian.....but for the most of the world, and paired with Italian cuisine, I would rate it 72

agusus said:

How can you have "Black and Tan" on tap? A black + tan is usually Guinness plus Bass, with the Guinness on top. Or do you mean that since they have Guinness and Bass on tap they can make a Black + Tan?

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There are a bunch of companies that make a 'pre-mixed' black and tan beer so it could be on etap without having to be poured from the two traditional ingredients.

Regarding the Black and Tan, I have no information on that. I'm almost certain that it's Guinness and Bass, but you should know there are offerings by breweries call Black and Tan, Yuengling comes to mind. We don't get that here, but there might be an AB knock-off.

Regarding the wine. This place has been awarded the Wine Spectator Award of Excellence several years running. If you're familiar with this award, you might remember that there was some controversy in that you nominate yourself and seldom does anyone check to verify that you have what you say you have in your cellar. Still it's something that these places hang their hats on.

Initially I was wondering if I was going to be too hard on these guys, but you've mostly affirmed my thoughts.

In other words I went on the same rollercoaster of thought as the_bird and PsuedoChef.

Seems like a lot of "commercial" beers. Needs a nice APA and IPA. A couple of Sierra Nevada beers would be a big improvement to the menu. Also, seems like a few too many beers in green bottles. One skunky beer tastes like the next...

Yuri_Rage said:

For any restaurant in SW Texas, this would be off the charts. But, for what I'm guessing is an upscale Italian joint in Phoenix, it's slightly above average.

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I woulda guessed Greek joint maybe - because of the Balkan beers(surprised at those choices for an Italian joint). Although there's variety in the labels it doesn't seem the styles are very varied. I'd give it a 60 for being better than just regular BMC as choices.

-OCD

For a standard restaurant, that's really not that bad. I've been to really upscale places with a list of BMC + Heineken + Blue Moon and that's it.

For me it would depend on what else is available within a reasonable driving distance. For panama city florida, I would be happy with that list since there's nowhere else to get a good beer. If it was philly or colorado, I would go somewhere else. Of course, if the SWBMO was in the mood for Italian, I would start there and then go to a different place.

I'd say its slightly better than a lo of Italian resturants. I'll say 60. There is a pretty good selection, but nothing that would convince me to order a beer over wine. My favorite Italian restaurant back in Charleston only offers Peroni, Bud and maybe a SA, while their wine list is off the charts. It would behoove them to think of some Belgians and American craft brews that would compliment their meals.

Are we talking about a nice restaurant or the pizza/calzone/stromboli/six-pack joint that calls itself a restaurant because it serves iceberg lettuce salads with its meals? From the comments so far I would guess everyone is assuming a nicer restaurant. Where I hail from, this would be a miracle of a beer list at an Italian restaurant.

mmm woodchuck, that earns a plus 10 in my book, but for being an Italian restaurant some of the beer choices seen odd, that is unless it's more of a pizzeria type place. it does seem to strike a very good balance between popular beers, and good beers. i'd give it a C+

I may be spoiled; we've got some pretty damn good beer selections available around here, even at middle-of-the-road restaurants. I'm assuming this is a good restaurant, and my expectations therefore are pretty high.

the_bird said:

I may be spoiled; we've got some pretty damn good beer selections available around here, even at middle-of-the-road restaurants. I'm assuming this is a good restaurant, and my expectations therefore are pretty high.

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That's why I made mention of the locale in my post. I have relatively high expectations when I'm in Phoenix. Not so much down here in rural TX.

For a normal restaurant, maybe a 75
For a place to get good beer with your meal, 60
I'd like to see some more big malty beers on the list (Baltika Porter #6 and Troeggenador (sp?) comes to mind), but that's just me.
I'd probably also throw in a DFH 60 or 90 minute.

For comparison, here's a smaller and better selection at another Italian place in Phoenix (The Parlor). Having it all on tap with an option for a pitcher is bonus.

Sweet 16
(pint / pitcher)
Lightest to Darkest
Bud Light 3.50 / 12
Coors Light 3.50 / 12
Miller High Life 3.50 / 12
Pabst Blue Ribbon 2 / 7
Spaten 4 / 14
Stella Artois 5 / 18
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale 4 / 14
Bass Ale 5 / 18
Alaskan Amber 4 / 14
Lagunitas IPA 4 / 14
Four Peaks Hop Knot 4 / 14
Four Peaks Kilt Lifter 4 / 14
Four Peaks Hefeweizen 4 / 14
Franziskaner Hefeweizen 5 / 18
Smithwick's 5 / 18
Guinness 5 / 18

I'd give PD's list an 80ish