sour beers

I have recently reignited my interest in sour beers and I was thinking about brewing a Flemish red but I'm nervous ass hell about using anything other than saccharomyces cerevisiae in my home brewery any one around here brewing sour beers?

anyone got a good recommendation for using oak chips/staves?

I'm thinking about brewing 10 gallon batches fermenting half in a bucket and half in a carboy then blended post fermentation to try and match the oxygen introduced when using oak barrels.

I'm thinking about using some dregs from a bottle of rodenbach should I make some kind of a starter?

I'm interested in any kind of sours and I cant get any oud bruin or berliner weiss in my area what beer should I start out with?

landhoney is our resident sour beer expert, so he may be showing up here soon. I would recommend using oak cubes instead of chips. Staves are good too. I think most belgian breweries use a different yeast to carbonate than to ferment with. Aaaand that's the extent of my sour beer knowledge.

I have been thinking about experimenting with brett. Probably bottling with it, Im not really sure exactly how to go about that but I might start there. I really need to pick up a copy of wild brews & farmhouse ales soon but I just bought designing great beers and brewing classic styles so its gonna be a while.

as far as using the dregs from a bottle I would be targeting the "critters" and not so much the yeast. So far I think Im fermenting initially with saccharomyces and then pitching the funk. I guess it all depends on what I end up starting out with.

killian said:

I have been thinking about experimenting with brett. Probably bottling with it, Im not really sure exactly how to go about that but I might start there. I really need to pick up a copy of wild brews & farmhouse ales soon but I just bought designing great beers and brewing classic styles so its gonna be a while.

as far as using the dregs from a bottle I would be targeting the "critters" and not so much the yeast. So far I think Im fermenting initially with saccharomyces and then pitching the funk. I guess it all depends on what I end up starting out with.

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That's the way I did my first attempts at sour beers, and it works well.
Check out my Drunk owl Mango recipe soured with the dregs of Orval(Only 1 left )

niquejim said:

That's the way I did my first attempts at sour beers, and it works well.
Check out my Drunk owl Mango recipe soured with the dregs of Orval(Only 1 left )

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What steps did you take to keep the brett contained?

Not much experience here but I have a Flanders Red in the fermenter.
I just used a Red Ale grain bill and pitched Wyeast 3763 Roeselare Blend. I'll let you know how mine comes out in 8 or 10 months.

Good luck on your sour adventure.

Craig

CBBaron said:

Good luck on your sour adventure.

Craig

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Thanks Im sure I will need a lot of luck.

killian said:

I have recently reignited my interest in sour beers and I was thinking about brewing a Flemish red but I'm nervous ass hell about using anything other than saccharomyces cerevisiae in my home brewery any one around here brewing sour beers?

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https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=68491

Don't be scared of the wild stuff. Here is a good site for info.
http://www2.parc.com/emdl/members/apte/flemishredale.shtml

Don't be scared of the wild stuff. Here is a good site for info.
http://www2.parc.com/emdl/members/apte/flemishredale.shtml[/QUOTE]

Wow that is a great refrence thanks!

I really like the idea of blending, I have yet to experiment with blending. I read some thing about taking about 1 out of every 10 gallons from every batch and make a "master" blend.

Go buy Wild Brews...great book about sours. Don't fear the bugs, just be thorough cleaning and sanitizing.

Drunkensatyr said:

Go buy Wild Brews...great book about sours. Don't fear the bugs, just be thorough cleaning and sanitizing.

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it's on my list of books to buy, thanks

I just bought a few beers to take on vacation,
jolly pumpkin - la roja
ommegang - ommegeddon
duchesse de bourgogne
rodenbach
orval
oud beersel - oude kriek vieille
I hoping to refine my palate a little as far as getting an idea of what funk = what flavor
I have some idea but what should I be looking for specifically in these beers?

killian said:

I just bought a few beers to take on vacation,
jolly pumpkin - la roja
ommegang - ommegeddon
duchesse de bourgogne
rodenbach
orval
oud beersel - oude kriek vieille
I hoping to refine my palate a little as far as getting an idea of what funk = what flavor
I have some idea but what should I be looking for specifically in these beers?

Click to expand...

I would be reluctant to use Brett at bottling unless you are willing to use champagne style bottles and cage and cork them. Brett will ferment out much farther than S. Cerevisiae and if you used regular bottles, bombs may be imminent.

I have done mine in a glass secondary, so I'm not too worried about sanitation. I think I'll do my Flanders in a carboy with the dowel to introduce more oxygen than I would if it were a closed system.

As for those beers, they all seem fantastic. I really like the JP - La Roja. It is a mild Flanders in my opinion, but that makes it easy drinking while still providing tartness from the lactic character. I don't get too much acetic from this one.

I just had a taster of Ommeggedon this past week and I still don't think it's Brett-y enough. They just brewed it last year, but I think they much have used Claussenii because they brewed it over a year ago, if I recall correctly. I would personally continue to age it.

From the Duchess I've always gotten a great Balsamic character that I just love. Some people have mentioned this as bad and that it is better fresher, but I don't care, I could take straight shots of balsamic vinegar and be happy, so that's just my personal palette.

I get a lot of vinegar from the Rodenbach Grand Cru as well. It is still a pretty solid Flanders Red, but I can only take so much of the Grand Cru as opposed to just the Rodenbach Red.

Orval is just a perfect freakin' beer, hands down. The Brett is so subtle, but perfectly placed.

I haven't had any Gueze's, but I do have some bottles that I just haven't opened up yet. The best beer I had at this year's NHC was a 3 year old/5 year old orange Gueze blend. It was brewed by a past homebrewer of the year. Simply outstanding.

Pseudo I hope you mean Rodenback Original when you say Rodenback Red and not Redbach.

Redbach is made with cherry juice and is cloyingly sweet and Robitussin-like.

I didnt drink all of the beers that I brought with me I did have the orval, it was f-ing great, I think I might need a few more of those to fine tune my palate.

I had the rodenbach with some lobster if you have never paired those you need to Im not a huge fan of lobster but that was really nice, I love rodenbach that beer is defeinetly great. I have heard that it is going to be hard to find soon - some issue with the importing I dont know.

pseudo I have to agree with your take on la roja it was a really nice beer but a little too mild for my taste. a little acetic character is desirable in a flanders isnt it?

I loved the grand cru when I had it at Belgium comes to Cooperstown a couple of years ago but I wasnt able to find it, it must have something to do with the importing.

I will be tasting the rest soon.

thanks for the feedback pseudo

what kind of a dowel are you using? is it something you made or did you buy it? is it "sealing" the opening of the carboy and soaking in the beer?

If Im using fresh oak should I soak the chips in some beer first? I think I heard that some where. If so for how long?

I've made a few sour beers over the years (a couple of Lambics and a couple berlinner weiss', granted not many so not really an expert) and can speak of my experiences. For the lambics, I used Wyeast 3278 and Pedio for one and just 3278 for the other. The 3278 has some Brett in it to bring that character out as well. Go for a long time in the primary/secondary. Both were in primary for about 1 month. I had mine in secondary for over 1 year, on the cherries the first time and raspberries the second. Then bottle and let it sit for another year or so, the longer the better in both cases. I didn't use any fresh yeast with bottling either batch and got sufficient carbonation.

For the BW's, I used Wyeast 1007 for both and one with Lacto and the other with Pedio. I'm drinking the second one now and it is great. For the ferment, I had it go in primary for about 2 weeks. When I pitched the 1007 I also pitched the Pedio or Lacto. I followed the normal times for racking/bottling, ie, it was in bottles about 6 weeks after brewing. I then let both batches sit in the bottles for about 6 months and it achieved the correct level of sourness.

I haven't had any problem with the bacteria infecting other batches and I use the same equipment to package the lambics/bw's as I do for all my other batches. I do use a bit more bleach on the equipment with the bacteria for cleaning though.

Good luck and post your results.

I just got some 5335 from northern brewer

Lactobacillus delbrueckii. Lactic acid bacteria isolated from a Belgian Brewery. This culture produces moderated levels of acidity and is commonly found in many types of beers including gueuze, lambics, sour brown ales and Berliner Weisse. Always used in conjunction with S. cerevisiae and often with various wild yeast. Optimum temp: 60°-95° F

and Im planning on brewing a Berliner Weisse soon using jamil's recipe. I cant wait to see how this turns out.

I think I read some were about using lactic acid I'm thinking of using the 5335 on 5 gallons and some lactic on the other 5 how much lactic should I go with? some one was saying about 50 ml does that sound right?

anyone know where to find the flavorings for berliner?