Angry at home brew store owner!

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lewishowardm3

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Hay people. Just a little thing here. I went into my local home brew shop here in England and I over herd a convocation between two noobies and the hbs owner. They wanted to get into brewing and wanted to know more about the all grain process, the owner then began to tell the noobs that all grain takes 7 hours. It seemed like he was putting them off all grain. Do you think he was doing this just to make more money as extract is more expensive ?
 
Probably doing them a favor... Let them get processes down and learn about the basics before they dive into all grain, which could be overwhelming for a new home brewer...

Hay people. Just a little thing here. I went into my local home brew shop here in England and I over herd a convocation between two noobies and the hbs owner. They wanted to get into brewing and wanted to know more about the all grain process, the owner then began to tell the noobs that all grain takes 7 hours. It seemed like he was putting them off all grain. Do you think he was doing this just to make more money as extract is more expensive ?
 
I actually think it's ignorance. If the shop owner isn't an accomplished AG brewer, it can be very intimidating and so he probably believes it takes that long and is very difficult. Sometime you should ask him how many AG batches he does a month- I bet it's 0.
 
I think the owner didn't want them to jump straight into all grain. He just wanted them to get the extract process down before doing the mashing and all that stuff.

The owner might take 7 hours to do a batch. He shouldn't have tried to steer them away from all grain because of time, but more because of difficulty level.

Like Yooper was saying, the owner might not even do all grain. Maybe with his discounted price for extract that's just what he has time for.
 
If you haven't brewed before, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it took 7 hours to get through a brew day. My first extract batch probably took close to that. Unless you have someone to learn from, I think it's a really good idea to start with a simpler process.

If he didn't qualify his statement, though, I think he's doing them a disservice.
 
You're getting angry at someone who might be putting off a new brewer, while in the same post calling them noobs?
 
There are 2 shops by me one brilliant well established shop that is certainly a pro gives you very little advice he's very up himself looks down at you alot and he decides if you are worthy of his knowledge!

But what knowledge you get is really good,

The 2nd is run by 2 ex doll dossers that just clearly like to drink, it's a complete DIY shop they pride themselves on different brew tasting a week many of times I've popped in and he's very quick to tell me they finished a barrel off and they are always on cans of carling, but if you can get past the smell of stale/fresh alcohol when your standing 2 ft away they are nice people friendly not up themselves give good snippets of advice but they don't brew from scratch they do ready made packs (as do I at the moment but am going to try in the new year mashing)

I'd rather go the the alcys they are cheaper and don't look down there nose at you where the well established one you feel uncomfortable to walk in there
 
This can and does happen, probably more than we think. A LHBS near me that has been around for years always has a lady(the owners wife I think) at the counter, and she knows absolutely nothing about home brewing. He is only marginally better because they are wine people and not that interested in beer. I can understand this because if I had a HBS I would focus on beer instead of wine, but I would still take the time to learn about it, and would also make it even if I just gave it away to customers that wondered what a particular wine kit tasted like.

I'm not sure if it's just my area, but most of the HBS around here are very wine oriented, but carry beer items as well. Just don't ask too many beer questions, cause if they can't fascinate you with facts, they'll baffle you with bullsh!t.
 
I have 2 close to me and have had nothing but good experiences with both. One has only brewing supplies and the other has some decent/good craft beers for sale. I like the one that does only the HB because of the guys that run it and it is a little closer.
 
When I first went all-grain in my apartment kitchen, brew days took a pretty long time. Heating up water on my stovetop took forever, and my chilling process wasn't particularly refined, either, so that took a lot longer than it does nowadays as well. I ended up getting a turkey fryer after a few AG batches on that stovetop, although I later figured out I could insulate the pot and get to temps faster. I definitely had a couple of 6+ hour brewdays thanks to the long heating and cooling times, plus clean-up, etc. So it's not necessarily out of the realm of reason or due to ignorance, IMO.
 
phoenixs4r said:
You're getting angry at someone who might be putting off a new brewer, while in the same post calling them noobs?

I don't feel bad calling them noobs as I'm still relatively new to the hobby. He has also told me that all grain is too much hard work and I should stick to extract. Being called a noob is not offensive in my book.
 
Yooper might be right. The guy might not know what he's talking about. There are people selling all kinds of stuff they don't know jack about. Just go into any big chain store and ask about paint, appliances, tools, guns, whatever. If you know the answers you would probably discover that more often than not they don't know what they are talking about.

I don't buy the idea that he was trying to get them to get their feet wet with extract before going all grain. You wouldn't lie about what all grain is for that. What would you do later? Tell them that you never said that? Say you lied to protect them?

I personally think he's trying to make more money. Does that brew store sell things like mash tuns? He might be looking at not being able to sell them the equipment they need, plus I would suspect that they make more money off of extract than grain.
 
He sells all types of brewing equipment and ingredients. It's sad because I don't like going in there anymore. I get my supplies online now.

It just annoyed me that he said that all grain takes 7 hours. Surely he should be telling them it depends on your system?
 
He sells all types of brewing equipment and ingredients. It's sad because I don't like going in there anymore. I get my supplies online now.

It just annoyed me that he said that all grain takes 7 hours. Surely he should be telling them it depends on your system?

He probably doesn't know. All grain takes as long as it takes on your system. He may be counting from when he lights the match to heat strike water or switches on the stir plate for his starter until he's done cleaning up or sets the alarm to wake up in the morning. LHBS advice is going to be all over the place, just like advice from any human being on any subject will be.
 
7 hours isn't that unreasonable. It used to take me that long. It was probably one of the reasons I stopped brewing for a while. It seemed like an all day thing. After I started up a few years ago, I worked on my process and equipment and got it down to a consistent 5 to 5-1/2 hours.
 
Hay people. Just a little thing here. I went into my local home brew shop here in England and I over herd a convocation between two noobies and the hbs owner. They wanted to get into brewing and wanted to know more about the all grain process, the owner then began to tell the noobs that all grain takes 7 hours. It seemed like he was putting them off all grain. Do you think he was doing this just to make more money as extract is more expensive ?

It takes me between 5-7 hours to do it. It really depends on how long I'm mashing, how long I'm boiling, how everything is going, how much beer my brew buddies and myself are drinking, if we're making mead at the same time, how long it takes to get to the boil, to heat strike and mash water, to cool the wort. Any number of things.

On a windy day it might take twice as long as normal to heat strike water. On a hot day when the groundwater is warm it make take longer than normal to cool the wort without help from a pump and ice water.

I don't think he's being all that far fetched to say that it is a long process.
 
7 hours for a first AG brew isn't surprising. My friend and I usually knock them out in about 4.5/5 hours now. Sometimes less if we have help.

If all he said was, "it takes 7 hours to do all grain" he might have been trying to just sell more extract. But, who knows his motives.
 
If he was advocating that they start slow, he should've simply said so. No exaggeration necessary.
 
Local homebrew shop told me that BIAB was a bad idea, as you only get about 35% efficiency. They were shocked when they found out I get 65-70%, though that's still low for my taste.

Lots of misinformation going around.
 
BIAB efficiency was pretty good for me too. Hit the OG/FG numbers. Came out clear & well balanced. He should try to educate himself better than that.
 
I could see seven hours being a reasonable time for your first couple all-grain brew days. I just completed my first (a one-gallon BIAB) and it took me a little over five, including cleanup.
 
Sure, AG might be cheaper. But, if I had a friend who was just starting out, I would push them into using an extract kit. For me, a 7 hour brewday isn't all that uncommon, from start to finish, taking everything that is involved into consideration.

AG can sometimes be a pain! My object would be to get my friend into brewing with as many 'quick wins' as possible. Then, later, drag him down the 'primrose path' of AG.
 
I've never really paid attention to how long an AG batch takes me but I suppose 5-7 hours sounds about right. Who knows what the shop owner's motivation was but for me at least, time is not an issue. If it was about time I'd buy a no boil coopers kit and be done in 30 minutes.
 
I'm use Batch Sparging as my mashing method. Takes me about 4 hours per 10 gallon batch. But doesn't fly sparging take longer? I've never done fly so maybe I'm wrong.
 
It's funny, I think there was another thread on here about how short a brew day could get. If I put my mind to it I can get it done just inside of 4 hours (batch sparge). But it's not a race, sometimes the day seems less stressful just to take your time.
 
It's funny, I think there was another thread on here about how short a brew day could get. If I put my mind to it I can get it done just inside of 4 hours (batch sparge). But it's not a race, sometimes the day seems less stressful just to take your time.

That's why I'm satisfied with 5 to 5-1/2 hours. I don't have to rush around, I can relax a bit, even enjoy a pint while I brew. I could probably shorten the boil and the mash, but I brew good beer, so why mess with what works?
 
I started with AG brewing and anyone who asks me I tell them to skip the Extract and BIAB in favor of AG brewing.

It isn't that difficult to do and the time commitment is an investment into both a finished product and a hobby just like any other.
 
I'm use Batch Sparging as my mashing method. Takes me about 4 hours per 10 gallon batch. But doesn't fly sparging take longer? I've never done fly so maybe I'm wrong.

Depends on a lot of variables but I can fly sparge a 3bbl batch in 45 minutes and still calculate a 70% efficiency though I tend to average a 90 minute sparge which puts me anywhere between 75-80% depending on what I am brewing.
 
OK, Ihave to speak up here. I started brewing last February straight into all grain. I built a Kal clone but upsized to produce 21 gallons into the fermentors which are Brewhemoths. The secret to my success is the fact that i read as much about building starters to mash processes. When I brew with my wife, we put in a 6 hour day, which includes clean-up. For that knowledge I have to thank people on this forum for sharing their knowledge so I could learn to brew beer and do the process justice. As to starting with extract...naw, just read and absorb from all of the expirienced people here at HBT and there is no reason you can't start off all-grain. Besides, the house smell fantastic while brewing.
 
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