No Nonsense Stout

Ah, good further discussion, as I plan to give the updated recipe a try this Saturday to see if it reduces the twang I got in the initial 'beta" recipe.

Any pointers on using FAN/DAP? I've not tried before, but if it can help tame it out a little I might try...

Thanks.

-sc

Question are you guys rehydrating the yeast or pitching dry into the Wort? Also Candi Syrup question. What are intervals for adding? I guess do one at the beginning and the other half way in?

I add all the candi syrup at the beginning; I rehydrate the yeast for 15-20 min before pitching.

I have always added candi syrup at the start of the boil, however FWIW candi syrup inc. recommends adding the syrup at flameout.

So are you still steeping oats for 30 mins at 155? Also what's the original water amount and are you topping off to bring to 3 gallons?

So I have made this batch and at bottling it was like drinking heaven. However, how long did you bottle age this at? I might have saw someone say 6 months, but now I'm second guessing myself. Is the standard 3 weeks good enough?

Was gonna give this a shot this weekend, but havnt toasted my oats yet... I think I'll give the updated recipe a shot as is with a couple changes... I am using some Kent folding hops and shooting for 35-40 ibu as swmbo isn't a big hop/bitter fan, only got my hands on 1lb of the d180 syrup the other 1# is d160 dif brand, I'm gonna use Nottingham yeast as I've had real good luck with it...

If I give this another shot using some quinoa... When I toast the quinoa, do I cook it according to package then cook it? Or do I just toast it dry? Really looking forward to brewing this one...

Brewed this yesterday in a 1 gal. Wort was nut-brown ale colour at the end though, no idea why. Im thinking either -oats werent dark enough or candi sugar wasn't dark enough (guy at LHBS had no idea what D-180 was and just gave me a pound of dark candi sugar). OG-1.090 :rockin:


Anyway, pitched the yeast without re-hydrating and it was bubbling through my blowoff tube in under an hour. Weird!

Uh oh, you used dark candi sugar instead of D-180 syrup? You are not going to get anything close to a stout, I'm afraid. I made that mistake once, and I will not make it again! Dark candi sugar is nothing like D-180 syrup; it's more like brown sugar than anything.

I recommend ordering online if the LHBS doesn't have it. It is an absolutely essential ingredient for this recipe, accept no substitutes!

Damnit! Wish I'd known!

Which one are you using? I've got 1lb of the d180 from candisyrup.com and 1lb of the 160srm d2 from the same place...

I use D-180, but I've never tried D2; from what I've been able to read about it, it should be about the same.

Other than the d2 saying srm160 and being in a jar instead of a bag they look identical, I actually thought they were different companies when I picked the second up...

I think I remember reading somewhere that D2 is made using a slightly different process than the other syrups, so it is supposed to have a lot of deep, rich flavor without being 'burnt'.

So after my burner wouldn't light I ended up doing this on the stove, started with 4gal water, boiled down to 2.5ish, o.g. was like 1.096 before topping off and 1.064 after... Made some other changes ill share with review down the road...

acswarts said:

Question are you guys rehydrating the yeast or pitching dry into the Wort? Also Candi Syrup question. What are intervals for adding? I guess do one at the beginning and the other half way in?

Click to expand...

I also rehydrated the yeast... aboout 2 hrs prior to pitching, and with a little yeast nutrient and some DME to get it rolling.. leave it in a warm place and it's good and frothy by the time I pitch it...

-sc

scaesare said:

Cool, thanks.. I'll aim for the 1.5lbs with the split roasting darkness you mentioned... and maybe I'll try a little DAP just for good measure.

When I do it again, I'll take notes a gain and report back for the benefit of the group.

Appreciate your reponses... oh, and I has born and raised in Hayward.

-sc

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OK... checking back in to this thread, now that I just kegged the batch I brewed with the updated recipe two weeks ago.

Notes:

1) I used 1.5 lbs of oats. One lb dark roasted, and 0.5 lbs medium roasted. I also wet-roasted them this time, and let them dry/air for almost 3 weeks.

2) I used 3lbs of sorghum, rather than 2

3) I used the same 2 packets of D-180 candi syrup as the first time

4) I did a 90 minute boil

5) I did slightly more than 4oz. of maltodextrin... maybe 4.5 - 5.0 oz.

6) I let ferment for 2 weeks


Comments:

I think this batch is superior to the last one by a good measure. The metallic taste is far more subdued. The batch is a bit sweeter, but that may be the trade off in reducing teh metalinc twang. The ABV is higher than I expected at 10.3%. The body is good, and the color is rich and dark.

My wife (for whom the gluten-free effort is for) thinks it's quite good... if a little sweeter than what she might normally drink. After getting her to taste it, she handed the glass back to me and said "I'll take a full one, please."

In the future, I might consider a dry hop... just to perhaps counteract the sweetness a bit. But this is definitely homing in on a very nice gluten-free alternative to barley-based beer. (Any suggestions on a hop variety for this appreciated).

Thanks again Igliashon for the recipe(s) and the work.

Enjoy!

-sc

Awesome, glad it came out better this time! I was starting to worry that my results had been a fluke. 10.3%, though? What were your gravities? I can't imagine how it could get such a high ABV without finishing bone-dry (which, since you describe it as sweet, clearly didn't happen). Are you sure you measured the gravities correctly?

I do agree that this beer could stand up to more aggressive hopping; next time I brew it, I will probably dry-hop it with Columbus or Chinook. I'm also considering cutting the candi syrup back to 1 lb, and doing a mini-mash with 1 lb of roasted chestnuts, 1 lb of lightly-roasted oats, and 8 oz of black-toasted buckwheat, and then adding maybe a full 10 oz of maltodextrin to really beef up the body. As much as I like this recipe, I'd like for it to be a little more dry with a more prominent roast character. But I don't anticipate giving it another shot until the fall...I plan to spend the spring and summer triangulating a recipe for my perfect IPA, and experimenting with some liquid yeasts for some funkier farmhouse styles.

scaesare said:

I also rehydrated the yeast... aboout 2 hrs prior to pitching, and with a little yeast nutrient and some DME to get it rolling.. leave it in a warm place and it's good and frothy by the time I pitch it...

-sc

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DME? As is dry malt extract? Hope your wife doesn't get sick!

Just toasted another batch of oats as my D180 has come in. Just need to pick up some more yeast and I'll be brewing it next weekend.

The batch I did with the candi sugar still smells quite a lot like beer which is encouraging!

Safa said:

DME? As is dry malt extract? Hope your wife doesn't get sick!

Just toasted another batch of oats as my D180 has come in. Just need to pick up some more yeast and I'll be brewing it next weekend.

The batch I did with the candi sugar still smells quite a lot like beer which is encouraging!

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Ooof... I didn't even think of that... thanks for the heads up...

Fortunately the reaction she has is milder than others with the allergy... but I'll be careful with this.

Thanks.

-sc

This was very disappointing, after reading so much positive feed back and cracking the first one after a month in the bottle. I was very surprised by this. The flavors were very far off, very sweet and "weird" tasting. I'm celiac so all I brew is gluten free and I have more than a couple of brews under my belt so I know I did everything right. I'm pointing to the D180, 2 pounds for 3 gal just has to be excessive. Lucky for me I used the O2 lids so maybe after 6 months or a year this "might" mellow out, but I doubt it, won't make this again. And yes, I followed the recipe only adding a small amount of vanilla in secondary.

I brewed the dual spires and added vanilla to secondary and got the very same taste. My guess is that it is the vanilla and not the brew.

Slinkman--what were your gravity readings? What temps did you ferment at, what yeast did you use, and exactly how much vanilla did you add? I added 1/2 oz to a 3 gallon batch one time and it took a couple months in the bottle before it stopped tasting like an alcohol-spike A&W cream soda. Is this your first time brewing with vanilla?

I found rolled oats instead of quick oats. What would I have to change? Cereal mash?

igliashon said:

Uh oh, you used dark candi sugar instead of D-180 syrup? You are not going to get anything close to a stout, I'm afraid. I made that mistake once, and I will not make it again! Dark candi sugar is nothing like D-180 syrup; it's more like brown sugar than anything.

I recommend ordering online if the LHBS doesn't have it. It is an absolutely essential ingredient for this recipe, accept no substitutes!

Click to expand...

Bottled this batch yesterday. Holy crap it tastes bad. Really bad. I'll leave it and let it do its thing for a couple of months and see how it goes but I can see myself just throwing it all away.

Brewed what will hopefully be the no nonsense stout with the real D-180 and it looks and smells pretty damn good. Got it chugging away. I used Nottingham instead of S-05 since that's what I had on hand. Hopefully it will work!

I've had my 3gal batch in the fermenter for close to a month, the nitty is still pluggin along and the brew is looking fantastic... Really looking forward to trying this one! Thanks Ig...

How long does this thing take to ferment!? Mine has been bubbling along for 2 weeks now with no signs of slowing!

Safa said:

How long does this thing take to ferment!? Mine has been bubbling along for 2 weeks now with no signs of slowing!

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I have noticed that most of my GF brews seem to take longer than a non-GF version would take.

That's odd, my brews usually finish fermenting and start clearing after no more than a week. I use Fermentis yeasts, though...usually S-04, US-05, and S-33, but occasionally T-58 and WB-06. I also have taken to adding yeast nutrient and whirlfloc, but I can't remember the last time I had fermentation activity go on longer than 10 days.

I've only brewed this twice, but both times my experience has been the same as igliashon's... fermentation activity is largely complete within a week or so...

-sc

Fermentation activity, or airlock activity?

I still have airlock activity myself. Haven't taken a hydrometer reading, I usually just give brews three weeks and dispense with the intermittent checks

Edit: so I stopped being lazy and took a hydro. Apparently the airlock activity was dissolved CO2. It's sitting at 1.012 right now which according to iBrewmaster is where it should be. It tastes absolutely fantastic. Way way better than I was even secretly hoping for.

I'm cold crashing it overnight and will be bottling tomorrow. I'll post back with SWMBO tasting results.

When you say you do a 3 gallon batch, what is your initial boil volume? Do you top off to 3 gallons? Based on trub, loss from hops, etc, is your final bottling volume around 2.5 gallons?

3 gallons is what ends up in the fermenter, give or take. I usually start with about 3.75 gallons of wort, maybe 4 if I'm doing a longer boil, and maybe more depending on how much hot break and hop matter I expect to end up with after the boil. For extract batches, there's usually very little trub, so 3.75 gallons is usually about what I start with. After fermentation, I usually expect to lose about a half-gallon to trub, so I typically end up bottling 2.5 gallons. My all-grain beers tend to finish with a ton of trub, and losses up to a gallon are not uncommon.

I found the negative reviews surprising! I brewed igliashon's recipe with a few relatively minor tweaks and came out with very good results. It does not taste like a non-GF beer obviously, but it definitely tastes A LOT better than most of the commercial GF beers out there. Plus its a stout...havent found one commercially made yet!

Here is how my final recipe differed from igliashon's original recipe, and what I will change in batch 2. Yes I will definitely make this again for my wife who is GF and enjoys this beer.

-Added 1/2 lb of home sprouted, roasted and malted buckwheat
-Added 1/4 lb of toasted & malted millet
-I only steeped the grains for 45 min (next time I will do full 60 min for more flavor)
-I added the 3 lb sorghum at the same time as the 180 Dark Candy, then brought to a boil. This was by accident...not sure how this affects flavor...any ideas?
-Added 1 Tablespoon cocoa powder to boil (MISTAKE the chocolate flavor fermented out with the CO2 and left too much bitterness. Next time I will had some melted bakers chocolate mixed wtih wort into the primary fermenter...if at all)
-THE BEST thing I did was added 16 oz of strong Cold Pressed coffee to secondary 24 hours before bottling. I definitely recommend this if you like Java stouts, or coffee flavors in your beer. It adds a strong pleasant coffee nose, and flavor to the beer. Cold pressed coffee should not add biterness. Definitely going to repeat, with maybe a little stronger coffee to add just a bit more flavor
-Next time I would cut down on the amount of bittering hops, there is a strong bitter flavor a bit too bitter. (Does this have anything to do with my mistake of adding sorghum too soon?)
-I would boil for only 60 min.
-Focus the hop editions on 5 min or flame out.
-Oh, I also added Maltodextrin for body. Not sure how much this helped.
-Next time I want to add Lactose to add body, creaminess, some sweatness.
-Finally, it was in the fermenters for a total of 4 weeks. Bottle condishioned 2 weeks. Definitely mellowed out the bittereness a bit after 4-6 weeks. But the coffee remains!

I hope this helps! Let me know what you think!

Adding your sorghum at flame out really does help a lot. I find that the maltodextrin really makes a difference as well. However, less so when I use a d90 or d180. Anyone else experience this? It coul be tied to a lot of things but that is my consistent factor. Did you like the flavor of the malted buckwheat? Would you call it bitter or sour? I'm thinking of doing a raspberry sour saison with roasted malted buckwheat so I'm curious about that flavor if you could pinpoint it.

I just roasted 2lbs of buckwheat this weekend. It has a strong nutty aroma to it. I tried sprouting millet but gave up on that after @ days and just roasted it. Smells like fresh baked bread. The quinoa I malted sprouted in a day, it was amazing.

Just popped one yesterday for the swmbo to try and she was very impressed!

Not quite carbonated yet, but its only been 2 weeks so no big deal

any thoughts on how to transform this recipe into
More of a milk/sweet stout?

mtbskier said:

any thoughts on how to transform this recipe into
More of a milk/sweet stout?

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Add more (aka any) lactose?

I'm not sure off the top of my head but I think a pound is the norm for a five gallon batch?