Apfelweizen!

I am thinking about doing a new spin on the apfelwein recipe. I'm going to combine a three gallon weizen recipe with two gallons of apple juice and maybe, just maybe, some apple juice concentrate for higher ABV and more body.

I'm following the KISS principle so as not to over complicate things. It seems to have worked for Edwort and his apfelwein recipe! Tell me what you think or if you have seen and/or tried something similar. Thanks!

1 lb Carapils grain
3lbs Wheat DME (75%)
.5 oz Tettnanger hops (60 min)
.5 oz Tettnanger hops (4 min)
Crushed Coriander 1 oz (10 min)

(I used brewpal on my iPhone to formulate this recipe. It's fantastic but I can't figure out how to get the right measurements for apple juice.)

After the I get the wort in the primary I'm going to add the 2 gallons of apple juice and possibly the concentrate, depending on OG. I'm very undecided about the yeast. I'm thinking either the trappist high gravity yeast or just sticking with weihenstephan weizen, or german wheat. Any thoughts or recommendations would be great. I've been making wine for about 4 years but I am fairly new to beer so let me know if I'm way off on this!

Interesting idea, sounds very tasty.

I like to make my apfelwein with WB-06 so that's my vote.

I've been toying with Apfelwein recipes for a while (Orange apfelwein, cinnamon spiced, etc...) but this has never crossed my mind. It does, however, sound down right delicious. I would think you'd want to stay with a yeast that won't ferment out all those tasty sugars from the apple juice, but as to which strain I have not a clue. Hell, I usually just throw my juice on top of a cake of whatever-the-heck-just-came-out-of-the-primary and see what happens; always comes out delicious but hey, I'm a rebel. I'd love to hear the end product of this, as I do enjoy my weizens...
Best of luck to ya.

Thanks for the words of encouragement! I looked into wb-06 and I'm really looking for something with a little more attenuation. I'm hoping to get in the 7-8% abv range. I'm going to try and get the supplies today. I usually get my stuff from a local guy who is a BJCP judge. I'll be sure to get his input.

One thing I was thinking about is how long do you think it'll take to hit its prime? Weizen is typically drank fairly young while they recommend six to eight month of aging for apfelwein. It'll be interesting to see how it develops.

I used the WY-3068 Weihen strain once on 5 gallons of apple juice. Came out nice, sweeter than the usual wine yeast. Didn't quite have that true "hefe flavor" but I assume you would get more of that with actual wheat and barley sugars in there for the yeast to eat.

I did something very simlar, and I loved it, its more cider than beer but adds just enough malty sweatness to make it a great drink.

my recipe:
3.3 Wheat LME
forget the hops now but it was half the hops from a brewers best weizenbier kit boiled first addition for 45min then the .25oz aroma hops I threw in at flame out
12 or so Cans Applejuice concentrate OG was 1.06 but I forget how many I added could be a couple more cans
Water to 6 Gallons

used the munich yeast that came with the brewers best kit, final gravity was 1.011 i beleave.

sorry not the most exacting recipe was more of a leftover brew to see what it would taste like, that and I kinda brew like I cook, little of this little of that with some rough calculations to make sure its not too out of balance.

If I did it again, I would add some carapils so i would have some head retention but beyond that very pleased with it, and saved a few bottles to get judged.

As far as if it can be drank young, it was good and carbed 1.5 weeks after bottling, and was ok. now 6 weeks after bottling it has improved quite a bit I just had one last night and its gotten way better, has some head now, doesn't stay long but its not just like fizzy BMC now lol....more I type this I may need to make this again only 3 bottles left 2 of which i want to send off to get judged lol

Hey hey, I was just thinking about doing the same thing a few weeks ago! I haven't executed it yet, but I was planning something a little different. I wanted to keep the hops low and only use bittering hops so they won't interfere too much with the apple aroma and flavor. I was also thinking about using a cleaner yeast, like an American Wheat, for the same reason.

I also plan to shoot for a typical wheat beer gravity range.

I'm still undecided whether I'll use coriander or not.

If it helps any, I saw somewhere that someone measured some apple juice and got a gravity reading around 1.042. I'm not sure where I saw that tho. I'm sure that depends a lot on brand, variety, etc.

Kampo said:

I used the munich yeast that came with the brewers best kit, final gravity was 1.011 i beleave.

Click to expand...

That fg is a lot closer to what I want. I don't want too much residual sweetness. The SWMBO and I both aren't in to the sweet ciders. Thanks for the input. That's exactly what I was hoping to hear.

BTW I feel your pain. It's always bitter sweet opening the last bottle of a good batch! But just remember making it is half the fun right?

Beer_me_plz said:

That fg is a lot closer to what I want. I don't want too much residual sweetness. The SWMBO and I both aren't in to the sweet ciders. Thanks for the input. That's exactly what I was hoping to hear.

BTW I feel your pain. It's always bitter sweet opening the last bottle of a good batch! But just remember making it is half the fun right?

Click to expand...

yup...just need more fermenters....SWMBO says I have taken up my alotment of basement space for my "mistress" she calls this hobby. maybe if I convince her I need another fermenter for a resieling she wants I can slip in an additional one.

but when I get some more space in my pipeline I think I may try another graff but more wintery and stouty since it will be fall by the time I have a spot open in my pipline it looks like lol. thinking of using the cherry pomegranent old orchard as the base (its mostly apple juice anyway looking at the ingrediants) and then something like 3 pounds DME and some specialty grains to give it kinda of a cherry stout color/taste

rpg said:

Hey hey, I was just thinking about doing the same thing a few weeks ago! I haven't executed it yet, but I was planning something a little different. I wanted to keep the hops low and only use bittering hops so they won't interfere too much with the apple aroma and flavor. I was also thinking about using a cleaner yeast, like an American Wheat, for the same reason.

I also plan to shoot for a typical wheat beer gravity range.

I'm still undecided whether I'll use coriander or not.

If it helps any, I saw somewhere that someone measured some apple juice and got a gravity reading around 1.042. I'm not sure where I saw that tho. I'm sure that depends a lot on brand, variety, etc.

Click to expand...

I got 13 ibu for the hop additions in a three gallon batch which came in perfect for a weizen beer. Adding the two gallons of apple juice should bring that down even more. I'm thinking it'll be just enough to tell it's there but not take away from anything. I am going for a good balance of Weizen and apple. I was actually thinking two gallons might be too much apple juice but I am going for a wheaty cider (or a cidery wheat) so to speak.

I figured coriander would be a good citrusy addition and add to the complexity of a fairly simple recipe. Maybe it will age better as well?

As for the yeast, a cleaner yeast may not be a bad idea. I do want some of the typical yeast cloudiness but not so much as to take away from the Krystal clear ciders we are all use to. Decisions decisions...

if it helps here is a pic of mine. this is prolly 3 weeks post bottle so it cleared a bit more but not a ton.

Kampo said:

if it helps here is a pic of mine. this is prolly 3 weeks post bottle so it cleared a bit more but not a ton.

Click to expand...

Looks good. It's darker than I would've expected. You think thats from the concentrate or the LME? I think the carapils should give a little more head retention as well. Mmmm... I can almost taste it now.

Beer_me_plz said:

Looks good. It's darker than I would've expected. You think thats from the concentrate or the LME? I think the carapils should give a little more head retention as well. Mmmm... I can almost taste it now.

Click to expand...

remember I had 4+ gallons(thinking I did 11 cans, didn't hit my sg i wanted so I think i tossed two more cans in so prolly closer to 5 gallons equiv) of apple juice, and I added the LME at the 45 min as well so that darkens it up some from what i've read about lme.

Jeez 13 cans! Holy crap. I may have a hard time hitting my target OG of 1.060 if it took that many. If apple juice is around 1.045 I may have to settle with 1.050 with an extra can or two of concentrate. I'll be sure to report back. Hopefully, I'll be able to brew this weekend.

Just got this into primary! Very pleased with the results so far. I went to my LHBS which is basically a guy that sells just about anything you need out of the shed in his yard. Don't get me wrong it's nice and at least has a window unit AC but it is a shed. Anyway the guy is a BJCP Judge and has a gold medal in the AHA beer of the year from a couple years ago. The guy knows what he's talking about. So after a couple of his homebrews we put everything into his SUDS program and we figure another lb of wheat dme will help the OG and maybe negate the need for the apple concentrate. So here is the recipe.

1 lbs carapils
4 lbs wheat dme
2 gallons unfiltered apple juice
1oz. Tettnanger hops.
Fermintis safbrew WB-06

These are my steps. Pretty basic.

Steep grains in 2 gallons water at 155-150 for 30 mins. Drain for 10 mins. Top up to 4 1/2-5 gallons (depending on how much boil off you get) and bring to boil. Add DME and .5 oz hops. Bring to boil. At 2-3 mins left add remaining .5 oz hops. Flame out and chill. Add two gallons of apple juice. After flame out.

I put my apple juice in the fridge over night to help cool the wort. There is possibility of some pectic haze associated with the apple juice getting hot, but hey, it's a wheat. It's suppose to be a little hazy. I was going to put in the coriander seed but when I went to my cabinet I had less than half an ounce so I figured I'd pass on it this time around.

I got an SG of 1.060 after topping up to 5.3 gallons at 80 degrees. Right on the money! Pitched the yeast and now the hardest part...

So, I pitched on Saturday and today is Tuesday. It's still bubbling away. This has probably been the most active fermentation I've ever had with beer. I can hear it in the spare bedroom bubbling away. Even with the door closed! Here is picture of how it's looking so far. The smell is simply Devine. Smells like a good Hefe with a subtle apple kick. As far as taste goes its coming along but is definitely way to young. Im notgetting any hops. I believe any hop character is over powered by the apple so far. Hopefully that will mellow and balance out.

OG was 1.060 at 80 degress the reading I got today was 1.011-1.010 at 68 degrees. I'm at 6.7% ABV.

Sounds great so far! Mine was also a pretty insanely active ferment... Needed a blow off tube on a ale pale...

Going to be doing my cherry pom Graff this weekend, just got the stuff from bells yesterday

Kampo said:

Sounds great so far! Mine was also a pretty insanely active ferment... Needed a blow off tube on a ale pale...

Going to be doing my cherry pom Graff this weekend, just got the stuff from bells yesterday

Click to expand...

That sounds really good. I take it the Pom is for pomegranate? That's what I loved about making wine. The endless combination of ingredients. Now I'm getting adventurous with my beer as well. (red jalapeño beer anyone?)

BTW do you remember the temp you had on the primary fermentation? I keep mine a steady 68-70.

On the low side. The Graff was fermented in late March and finishing early May, if I remember right my basement was in the low 60s then, possibly even upper 50s. Typiclly I try to keep temps below 70 upstairs, so usually a few degrees cooler downstairs.

And yeah its pomegranate. Using old Orchard cherry pomegranate concentrate its really looking at the can apple cherry and pomegranate. The beer half is going to be basically a stout

Also I'm planning a jalapeño wine soon. Only going to make a gallon, but figured it will be fun to pass around while tailgating this fall. Thinking apflewien basically with jalapeño added

Wow, below 70? You must be single or have a very tolerant wife/girlfriend. Lol

Google Jack Keller wine making. He makes a Jalapeño-apple wine. He has some great recipes on his site. I use it as a reference all the time.

I don't know if you've tried it or not, but I highly recommend trying fresh fruit. I liken it to going from extract to all grain.

My biggest tip is if you go with fresh fruit make sure you use ripe fruit and pectic enzyme with campden tablets. Also you want to crush the fruit but not over process or you'll get to many tannins. Let me know how that wine turns out!

Haha trained the wife good ;-) if she is cold I go grab her a blanket or tell her to put warmer cloths on. In the winter the thermostat is set a 64 muhahaha. I could prolly lager a beer this winter if I closed the vents in the fermenting room lol

Still new to both wine and beer. Only wine I got bottled is a welches white that is a bit well "potent" have a few others clearing though. I've seen jack kellars Site and it is very helpful so far

Almost cold enough to hang meat. I commend you sir!

How did this turn out?

Kampo said:

How did this turn out?

Click to expand...

Well, it's got potential. I don't know how long you can or should age a hefe but it's going to need it. I've kept it in primary this whole time. The cider part certainly needs to mellow. It's a good hefe with a harsh young cider bite if that makes sense. I should have expected that! I'm hoping there isn't a limited window where the cider part comes into it own while the hefe passes its prime.

Anyway, I was going to bottle it this weekend but I've got plenty of buckets and a limited supply of bottles so I think my stout will be getting bottled instead. This may be one of those I forget about for a month or so. It'll be interesting to see how this develops.

Update: This stuff is awesome! It's amazing what a couple weeks will do. It has been bottle conditioning for a week and a half. I cant wait till this has a couple more weeks. if it last that long this is my second glass and the wife is already wanting some. I'm hoping it will develop better head retention like a hefe. we shall see!

Have you tried blending Hef and Apfelwein? I'd be interested in hearing how they compare with each other.

Interesting recipe, though. Sounds good!

WhoZiT said:

Have you tried blending Hef and Apfelwein? I'd be interested in hearing how they compare with each other.

Interesting recipe, though. Sounds good!

Click to expand...

That's actually what I was going for. I know it's best to age apfelwein and drink hefe somewhat young so it'll be interesting to see how it develops after a couple weeks. It's about 7% ABV I think some age will do it good.

Beer_me_plz said:

That's actually what I was going for. I know it's best to age apfelwein and drink hefe somewhat young so it'll be interesting to see how it develops after a couple weeks. It's about 7% ABV I think some age will do it good.

Click to expand...

Not to put words in his mouth, but I imagine he meant taking a hefeweizen and some apfelwein and literally mixing the two finished products.

KISS Brew said:

Not to put words in his mouth, but I imagine he meant taking a hefeweizen and some apfelwein and literally mixing the two finished products.

Click to expand...

That's what I figured he meant. I guess I could have done a trial run that way. I just don't think it would've been the same. It would've been more like a black and tan only green and white? He might be on to something!

That is just one way to balance the age that the Apfelwein needs vs the short aging process of the wheat. A mix straight into the glass would give an idea of what this way's end product would be. It would be interesting to see the differences between this method and doing everything together from the beginning, like you are doing.

Just to give everyone an update. I've still have a few of these in the back of the fridge. About a month after conditioning they tasted really great. clovey, sharp apple, and yeasty. It's acually really hard to describe the taste. wheat beer and cider is about as close as i can get with it really. It did come out super clear with a slight wheat haze to it.

It's Nothing spectacular but my wife enjoyed it and I would drink one on occasion. It has steadily declined over the past few months/weeks and I may end up tossing the last few bottles.

It has fantastic head upon pouring but quickly dissipates to rembele something more along the lines of a traditional cider.

If i were to do it again I think I would try adding cider to a beer that would age better with the Apple Juice. Maybe I'll try a three gallon batch of barleywine with cider and let that sucker age for a year+. Hmmmmm...

Thanks for the update. In retrospect, I guess this makes sense. The flavor of a wheat and apples together sounds like a good flavor combo. But I guess one style that gets better with age doesn't go we'll with one that is best drunk fresh. In that sense, a barley wine might be good for that, although I'd wonder if the apple would get lost... Interesting, though.