RIMS for Dummies

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Hey gang - Quick question. I'm looking at buying this PID for my RIMS build: http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=102

Do I want the one with a Relay Contactor, or SSR control? I'm assuming SSR control.

Thanks!

The specs show both relay and SSR are available:

Output mode Relay Contact, 7A at 240VAC, 10A at 120VAC, 12VDC for SSR

Looks like it can handle both heating and cooling. Might be better used on a lagering fridge.

I plan on using this one: http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=106

It's a bit less expensive and still offers both relay and SSR outputs plus it offers a learning mode.
 
The specs show both relay and SSR are available:

Output mode Relay Contact, 7A at 240VAC, 10A at 120VAC, 12VDC for SSR

Looks like it can handle both heating and cooling. Might be better used on a lagering fridge.

I plan on using this one: http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=106

It's a bit less expensive and still offers both relay and SSR outputs plus it offers a learning mode.

Relay and SSR are options though. It does not come with both.

Which do I need for this RIMS setup?
 
If your using a PID to control the heating element then the SSR is the only option. The switching is so fast and frequent that you'll burn up a mechanical relay in no time.
 
Ok, so I have been reading and researching, much like this summer when I was trying to decide on to go HERMS or RIMS.

I am now kind of wishing I had gone RIMS (I ended up going HERMS). So having said that, I am going to make the switch over to a RIMS system, but slowly.

I have ordered my PID controller components- I think this is what I need from Auber (Let me know if I missed something):

Universal 1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller
http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=106

25A SSR
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=9

Heat Sink for 25 A SSR
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=45

Liquid tight K type, 4 in probe, 1/2 NPT Thread
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=165


Do I need to get a thermowell for the probe?

This project will slowly come to fruition- still have to build my RIMS tube and get the heating element. Then I will be building a new control box replete with a cooling fan and vents for the SSR heatsink. It will also be replete with aircraft switches (those rock!). The idea is not too much automation, but have the availability to if I want. I certainly want to get the wort recirculation efficency question solved- my temp control thought process is a bit flawed as I am using a RANCO (not working the way I thought it would)

Anyone have any other ideas, thoughts or input?

My current HERMS is this:

photo2.jpg



I figure without too much trouble I should be able to retrofit.
 
Just not the direction I wanted to go.

Plus I may have more temperature control using RIMS...the last time I brewed my temps were not hit and this is a regular occurance. Too much heat loss, then over shooting the temp, etc. It looks like for what I want to accomplish, RIMS is the way for me to go.
 
Ok so I am in the process of upgrading my system. I was set on doing direct fire resirc like the brutus. After reading this thread I have some questions.

1. Do you use your burner to heat up your initial strike water to mash in, and then use your rims tube while you are resirculating to maintain mash temp?

2. Do you heat your sparge in your HLT and then use the Rims tube to keep the constant temp?

3. "Stainless steel RIMS tube with extra low density 120V 1500W element" is this for a basic 110 outlet?

Sorry not an electricity guy. If I understand this right then this seem seasier than buying asco valves and pilot lights to do direct fire.
 
Ok so I am in the process of upgrading my system. I was set on doing direct fire resirc like the brutus. After reading this thread I have some questions.

1. Do you use your burner to heat up your initial strike water to mash in, and then use your rims tube while you are resirculating to maintain mash temp?

2. Do you heat your sparge in your HLT and then use the Rims tube to keep the constant temp?

3. "Stainless steel RIMS tube with extra low density 120V 1500W element" is this for a basic 110 outlet?

Sorry not an electricity guy. If I understand this right then this seem seasier than buying asco valves and pilot lights to do direct fire.

1 & 2. I will heat strike and sparge water with propane burner and use the RIMS tube to keep the temp. Since I'm powering this with 110V it would take too long for it to bring the temp up where it needs to be.

3. Yes - 110v/120v - pretty much the same thing.
 
very interesting. I think I might have to go this route. I looked at some vendors selling a rims tube it seemed a little pricey. I am not a big electrical guy so I am not sure I want to mess with building one. I will have to look around and see what I can find
 
So what are the typical threads of all of your elements?" I have seen a few (most maybe) that might be NPSM threads. From everything i have read NPSM threads (being straight) are not intended to fit with NPT thread (thats tapared). At the the very least, this is not an "ideal" fit for a water tight application. Are most of you just using a rather large amount of teflon to try and get a better fit.
 
So what are the typical threads of all of your elements?" I have seen a few (most maybe) that might be NPSM threads. From everything i have read NPSM threads (being straight) are not intended to fit with NPT thread (thats tapared). At the the very least, this is not an "ideal" fit for a water tight application. Are most of you just using a rather large amount of teflon to try and get a better fit.

I just sold a RIMs heater based on this design (using NPT bushings) and never had any issues with leaks. I also have 2 elements in my HLT & BK with NPT Bushings and no issues there either.
 
If the NPT threads are cut deep enough to allow the NPS far enough that it seats the gasket, it will work great. If the threads bind before the gasket seats, bring on the teflon tape.
 
I just finished looking through my copy of the Machinery's Hand Book at the section concerning American Pipe Threads. The basic tolerance for taper pipe threads (NPT) is calculated as plus or minus one turn from the basic dimensions. Since the basic thread form is the same for both straight and taper pipe threads the mechanical straight thread (NPSM) on the heater element will fit with the taper thread on the fitting.

They will thread together far enough to seal on the gasket if the female fitting is tapped to the deeper end of tolerance. If the female fitting is tapped to the shallower end of tolerance then the threads will tighten before the gasket is sealed. Due to the thread form this will not produce a water tight joint without a sealer.

I borrowed a 1" NPSM pipe tap and ran it through the fittings on my RIMS tube (made from 1 1/2" pipe) to make certain that the joint would seal on the gasket. The tap only removed a very fine chip until it was well past the depth needed. In general it is quite possible to do a selective fit if you have 3 or 4 female couplings to try.
 
Interesting information on thread type.

Where did you find a 1" NPSM pipe tap? I can't imagine who would have one. And would guess the cost would be too high for a single use to buy one.
 
I built mine with all npt fittings and could not get my heater element to catch more than the first thread, so I bought a cheap tap on ebay to re-cut the bushing for the heater element to nps. I did not worry about buying a high dollar tap since I would only need it once. It definitely has a few more rims tubes in it.
 
Interesting information on thread type.

Where did you find a 1" NPSM pipe tap? I can't imagine who would have one. And would guess the cost would be too high for a single use to buy one.

A local fabrication shop has one. They quite often make handrails out of pipe and the 1" nominal pipe (1.315" diameter) is used for secondary supports.

An alternative would be to get an NPT tap from a plumbing shop and simply cut the threads one or two turns deeper. This would make the end of the thread a bit loose, but there is still sufficient engagement to make the mechanical joint, allowing the gasket to make the seal.
 
Check Ebay
fcb_electronics-item#360227864158
this is what I got and a lot cheaper
Cheers
Paul;)
 
Could someone tell me the difference between the

Auberins syl-2352 and the syl-43x2

Is size the only difference or are there some control features that I'm missing?

Edit: I see you can use the alarm out on the syl-43x2 to run an SSR. That being said is the 2352 suitable for this RIMS setup?
 
Could someone tell me the difference between the

Auberins syl-2352 and the syl-43x2

Is size the only difference or are there some control features that I'm missing?

Edit: I see you can use the alarm out on the syl-43x2 to run an SSR. That being said is the 2352 suitable for this RIMS setup?

The SYL-XX52 have SSR outputs, SYL-XX42 have Relay outputs. Other than that, for our purposes the difference is size.
 
I built mine with all npt fittings and could not get my heater element to catch more than the first thread, so I bought a cheap tap on ebay to re-cut the bushing for the heater element to nps. I did not worry about buying a high dollar tap since I would only need it once. It definitely has a few more rims tubes in it.

Could you provide a link for the tap you bought? I'd like to get one, too. Thanks.
 
I was able to screw my element into NPT fittings. A little teflon tape. I put the tee into my vice and used some elbow grease. Thankfully it worked. I'm not sure why yours gave you such a hassle!
 
I was able to screw my element into NPT fittings. A little teflon tape. I put the tee into my vice and used some elbow grease. Thankfully it worked. I'm not sure why yours gave you such a hassle!

+1. Gasket squeezed tight all the way around. No leaks during a 90 minute test.
 
Sawdustguy,

I was reading some of your post over on the brewtroller page and I had a few questions.

Am I correct in thinking that you cannot use an RTD in the brewtroller setup? If this is the case, can you use the brewtroller thermocouple with a PID? I just want to make certain that I have components that can be easily swapped between systems if I choose to go to a brewtroller setup.

Also, is there any way to automate using PID, and SSR's. Some PID’s have dual output (using the alarm) could this be used to control an electric valve? If not, is this RIMS for dummies completely manual in terms of turnings pumps on.

I know I'm kinda all over the place on this but I just want to get an idea of what to purchase instead of buying components and then realizing they will not do what I want them to do.
 
There is a prototype board for RTD temp sensors that CodeRage is working on, I know he had it functioning but I believe he is still working on the code. Brewtroller doesn't use thermocouples; it utilizes OneWire digital sensors. They won't work with a PID.

Sawdustguy,

I was reading some of your post over on the brewtroller page and I had a few questions.

Am I correct in thinking that you cannot use an RTD in the brewtroller setup? If this is the case, can you use the brewtroller thermocouple with a PID? I just want to make certain that I have components that can be easily swapped between systems if I choose to go to a brewtroller setup.

Also, is there any way to automate using PID, and SSR's. Some PID’s have dual output (using the alarm) could this be used to control an electric valve? If not, is this RIMS for dummies completely manual in terms of turnings pumps on.

I know I'm kinda all over the place on this but I just want to get an idea of what to purchase instead of buying components and then realizing they will not do what I want them to do.
 
Yeah I saw the OneWire digital sensor, how accurate are they? I've read some other forums where people were having issues with them reading ambient temps correctly.

How do you calibrate them, and how are they implemented in the system? I see they can be placed into a thermowell, do you them fill the well with silicone?
 
Steelers77,

Sawdust hope you dont mind if I field this one real quick. Pt100 RTDs are going to be an option very soon. Its an external module with inputs for 4 RTDs that will interface with the BrewTroller. Once complete it the firmware for the BT will need to be modified but the guys over there are very good about supporting new hardware quickly.

Theres a thermocouple version too that is working to some degree but it is way out on the back burner.

Edit- Damn you pickles, waited all day to answer this and you jump right in front of me :p j/k

The Dallas one wire sensors are calibrated from the factory. You could write your own calibration curves and offsets, personally I prefer not to use them. People have had problems with their one wire networks that are either too long or have too many devices attached. We've always been able to work through it and get folks running but it can be a headache. To be fair, some people have had great success with them and find them a reliable option.
 
They are very accurate. I haven't had to calibrate any of the eight I use. They fit perfectly snug into a 1/4 thermowell no need for silicone and transmit data very quickly.
 
If there is a prototype in the works for an RTD based system I may just go ahead with my rims tube build and expand from there.

I work with a controls specialist who has a PHD in process engineering and he has offered to help me with my build build I like to get the input of the community so I don't bother him too much with my Sh*t.

Sad thing is I have an electronics engineering degree but I have not used in 10+ years. You tend to forget a lot of things when you don't use them often. Damn Environmental Engineering position!
 
I have modified Sawdustguy's original drawing to suit my build (and this post has been a great help - thanks all).

Main thing I did is use a newer PID from Auberins and a different sensor. I want to be able to switch my pump on separately so I can use it after the mash for moving wort around. But - I also want to make sure that the heater cannot come on unless the pump is running - as a safety issue. I put in a single pole isolation relay with a 125V coil - and 20A contact rating.

I'm not sure how to wire the coil. So, my question is, for any tech savvy brewers out there - should I run the relay coil (4K4 ohm resistive load) down to neutral as per this diagram, should I run it in series with the pump? Any help much appreciated.

RIMS2.jpg


Ian
 
...
I'm not sure how to wire the coil. So, my question is, for any tech savvy brewers out there - should I run the relay coil (4K4 ohm resistive load) down to neutral as per this diagram, should I run it in series with the pump? Any help much appreciated.
How about doing it this way. It will require a DPDT Center Off switch. It should give you the control you want. If the element is energized the pump is also. The switch in the other position energizes the pump and disconnects power to the element. (BTW -With a 120V system you do not need to switch the neutral.)



RIMS3.jpg


Hope this helps.
 
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