Schöfferhofer Hefeweizen Clone or Purchase

So every time I go to Germany I fall in love with this beer all over again. I live and Maine but travel all over the world for work and I can't find this beer anywhere but in Europe. Has anyone seen it in the USA? If yes, where can i buy it?

Failing that, does anyone know enough about it to have a clone recipe around?

I really am not a fan of cloning and won't do it unless I just can't buy it anywhere!

Thank for any help you can give!

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/290/3425

Link to Beer Advocate page.

so nothing huh?

wow

I think what you need to do the next time you go to Frankfurt is kidnap the brewmaster on this one. That's the only way your going to get a clone of this. The U.S. distribution of this looks to be extremely limited. If you could work a deal with the brewery you could be the east coast distributor of this hefe. I don't have any clue how to make this one and no one else does here either. This sounds like a good candidate for Marc Martin, the Beer Replicator at Brew Your Own to attempt. But I'm afraid Marc may have trouble getting information from the German brewery also. I did locate one recipe that you may use as a starting point if you were to attempt a clone. If you're committed to try this (and why not?), I would also suggest a second batch using Wyeast 3333. If it comes close, let us know.

Schofferhoffer Weizen Clone

Type: All Grain
Date: 7/14/2007
Batch Size: 6.60 gal
Brewer: Andrew Clark
Boil Size: 9.83 gal Asst Brewer: Henno
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: Andrew's 23 lt Stainless Brewery
60 min boil
Taste Rating (out of 50): 45.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.83 lb Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRM) Grain 59.62 %
4.63 lb Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 40.38 %
1.59 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] (60 min) Hops 18.1 IBU
1 Pkgs Weihenstephan Weizen (Wyeast Labs #3068) [Starter 1000 ml] Yeast-Wheat


Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.048 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.011 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.52 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.60 %
Bitterness: 18.1 IBU Calories: 208 cal/pint
Est Color: 3.1 SRM

Mash Profile

Mash Name: Double Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 11.46 lb
Sparge Water: 5.97 gal Grain Temperature: 50.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 185.0 F TunTemperature: 50.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Double Infusion, Medium Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
30 min Protein Rest Add 10.33 qt of water at 140.3 F 122.0 F
30 min Saccrification Add 11.65 qt of water at 190.9 F 154.0 F


Mash Notes: Double step infusion - for medium body beers requiring a protein rest. Used primarily in beers high in unmodified grains or adjuncts.

Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Kegged (Forced CO2) Volumes of CO2: 2.7
Pressure/Weight: 16.0 PSI Carbonation Used: -
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 42.8 F Age for: 7.0 days
Storage Temperature: 39.2 F

Thank you so much! that's a great start!

The only other point I'd have is ferment this puppy at 62 degrees F. That will actually suit this beer the best. The pale malt could be a pilsen malt also. Try different minor recipe variations until you nail it.

Did a ferment at 65 or so, did a 1 gal batch. Currently in a secondary till next week then bottle and wait for the magic! Thanks so much buzzer!

No problem. Let us know how this shakes out. What yeast did you end up using? I'll throw you a curve ball, if you want to experiment to find the right taste, consider Wyeast 1007 German Ale yeast as another alternative. I don't think you can go wrong with a weizen for the hot summer. Don't be shy about making this a 5 gallon batch. July is coming!

Ended up using WLP 380. if this is good it will get scaled to 10 but i really want to match that brew!

So Buzzer that just got bottled and it's a great beer. Needs something for head retention and I think i'll try the yeast you recommended as this one generated to much banana flavor.....

looking for a yeast that is light on cloves and light on the banana one that is more balanced. Also thinking of pulling the wheat content up a bit.....

Glad to hear it was a success. You got a Weizen! Now was it the right weizen? The 90 minute boil reference tells me a pilsen malt is used as the base. Unfortunately there was also a reference to a 60 minute boil. I would still employ a step infusion mash and 90 minute boil using the pilsen malt instead of a two row base. What do you think? Try the 1007 yeast or split the 10 gallon batch and use 3333 yeast also with a cool fermentation of 62 degrees F if you can swing it. If you're up for a scale up to 10 gallons you can still use two carboys for two yeasts. Try to keep the wheat content 60% or less on the grain bill. If you wish to go light on the cloves, keep the fermentation temperature low. Lower on the banana, use the 1007 yeast. But try both and keep up the experimentation!

TipsySaint said:

looking for a yeast that is light on cloves and light on the banana one that is more balanced. Also thinking of pulling the wheat content up a bit.....

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Yes, yeast makes a difference - However....Your balance can be controlled much by your step infusion/protein rest time/temperature AND fermentation temperatures.

Yeah Tipsy, keep us posted on the progress of successive batches. When it cools down make your 10 gallons and get that fermentation temperature low, like 62 degrees, and I think it will come out well.

redbone said:

Yes, yeast makes a difference - However....Your balance can be controlled much by your step infusion/protein rest time/temperature AND fermentation temperatures.

Click to expand...

Another thing that people do with Belgian style yeast strains is after a good controlled few days of primary fermentation temperatures, they bring them out and let them warm up a bit to help fully attenuate out and allow the yeast to develop more character. This is something I know has worked for me if you want more dimensions to your Belgians.

TipsySaint said:

Ended up using WLP 380.

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Try WLP 300, it's more of a true Germ Hefe and it's more balanced between Clove and Bannana!

I split the batch and did wlp 300 and 380. both sat at 62 for primary and then were moved to my basement which is 68.

I put my fermenter in a larger container, put water around it and put frozen 2 liter soda bottles in the water to get the temperature down to the low 60's which will help with the weizen's final outcome. I keep replacing the frozen 2 liter bottles as they thaw to keep the temperature low and stable. It's extra work but a better result for summer fermentations.

So overall this beer was pretty damn close. The WLP 300 being my fav of the two yeasts. However, i'm missing that tart zing that i'm hunting. it's just a touch that is in the beer i'm trying to replicate. Any ideas on the best way to accomplish that next time?

TipsySaint said:

So overall this beer was pretty damn close. The WLP 300 being my fav of the two yeasts. However, i'm missing that tart zing that i'm hunting. it's just a touch that is in the beer i'm trying to replicate. Any ideas on the best way to accomplish that next time?

Click to expand...

Try a late mash addition of .5lbs acid malt. It will also help with the overall stability of that much wheat.

I would also suggest splitting up wheat malt into wheat malt and torrified wheat

You're welcome.

Redbone, that sounds like a great process. what is the rational for wheat malt and torrified wheat?

TipsySaint said:

Redbone, that sounds like a great process. what is the rational for wheat malt and torrified wheat?

Click to expand...

From what I understand, all true Bavarian Hefeweizens contain a certain percentage of raw or torrified wheat. I had also recently done an imperial wit with a lot of torrified wheat and it turned out great. So, I was just carrying this knowledge and experience forward.

No expert for sure, but I don't mind sharing some experiences. When I got into brewing I brewed nothing but Hefe's for a solid year+ and then off and on for several more years. I really wanted to master them. I can't say that I did, but they did get pretty good. I hadn't brewed one in about 2 years and I just did for a party. I went back to the drawing board and revamped my last recipe. 2 things that I had read was about raw or torrified wheat and also found something about acid malts will help the overall stability of large amounts of wheat.


The recipe ended up being very simple it was 5/4/3 of wheat/pils/torrified and then .25# of acid malt.... Protein rest around 117F and mashed at around 152F touch of ibu's using perle at about 13ibu's and then fermented around 64F with wlp380 for a week and then brought it up to room temperature allowing it to finish. OG was close to 1.062 for 5.5 gallons. Grain to keg to glass was about 12 days.

It was the best I had ever done and kicked pretty quickly at the party. Even at .25lbs of acid malt I wanted a bit more acid, so this is why I suggested above to make it .5#.

I think redbone has got some good experience to draw on here. We can learn from this man. Between his time/temperature comment, the suggestion on the acid malt and mixture of wheats, I think something like this might really nail it for you. Even if not, it sounds like you might be on to something that might be an equally fine brew in it's own right, especially if you can put it on draft. Keep working on it, try some yeast variations, let us know what you like best and publish the recipe. It'll be fun to experiment and make some good weizen along the way. Keep us updated.

Just wanted to say I bookmarked this info for future reference...

When I was 18 I went to Germany for a couple weeks and loved Hefeweizens. Then I went to college and asked where the good beer was.

I have only brewed one 5 gallon batch and it's still in a keg carbing up but once I get to all grain this will likely be my first all grain beer! Probably BIAB.

Goodluck with hitting that beer Tipsy.

I brew in a bag all the time and it works great. It's a good step up from extract to an all grain level. I'm trying to work on a Martin Luther 16th century version German weizen also. It's fun to try to resurrect historic ales. Or to try to nail a favorite foreign commercial ale as Tipsy is attempting. Keep working on your process and get it down and soon you'll be doing all-grain batches with confidence.

I think lactic acid in the acid malt will get you that sour milk twang for the next batch.
I didn't see whether you bottled or kegged. If kegged you can put lactic acid in the keg in 1 ml increments until you get the desired taste you want. I don't think it would take more than 3-4 at the most.
You could also pour a glass and add lactic acid to it with dropper. That way you could know if that is the taste you're after.
On my second to last batch, I added 3ml to the boil kettle and the FG hydrometer sample tasted slightly tart in a good hefeweizen way.

Good luck
Flask

I may have misspoke on my previous entry saying "I think lactic acid in the acid malt will get you that sour milk twang for the next batch."
You might need to add a lot more acid malt than is necessary to get your mash pH into the correct range. So it could over acidify your mash if you added it with the rest of the grist. You could add the acid malt at the end of the mash and or sparge. The percentage of grist that would need to be acid malt would be a guess though. I would suggest doing some aqueous lactic acid addition as I suggested in my earlier post to get a rough estimate. Then you could back calculate the percent of acid malt that would take.

Flask

Flask,

The lactic acid idea might be great for this batch! I'm a bit of a purist so even though i know it's pretty much the same end game, doing it with malt or maybe berliner weisse like technique would be more fun. And yep it's kegged.....

In the book "Brewing with Wheat", it mentions that Schneider and Sohns acidify their wort pre boil on Aventinus using a slurry of Lactobacillus. I assume they soak some grain and wait for it to ferment until the pH is right. That's the only way I can see them staying in Reinheitsgebot.
I have been thinking of doing this because lactic acid is pretty one dimensional where as the slurry would be more interesting.

the slurry sounds interesting. i wonder how one determines the slurry to beer ratio. i mean if it's pre boil that's gonna be tough.....

I'll reply back when my batch with lactic acid added to the BK is carbed and give you an idea of the tartness. We just have to get a baseline to work off of. I was thinking of using White Labs Lactobacillus as my slurry maybe making a starter for it. Crash it then decant the liquor into a jug I could use for along time.

I hope you have Beersmith, if not reply and i'll send it long version.
This is the closest I've come to authentic hefeweizen. I don't know if it satisfies your Schöfferhofer Jones or not. I like it quite a bit. You might want to go down to 2ml of lactic acid to the BK. It is slightly more tart than I would like. Thanks to Braukaiser and his Weissbier Hell.

PM if you have any questions,

Good Luck
Flask

View attachment Kai Brau.bsmx

i have beersmith.

that is awesome flask!

Thank you!

Tipsy

Do you, by chance, have a finalized recipe? I know someone who only likes this beer, and would like to make it as a gift.

Thanks