need help on burner plumbing!!

I've been working on a 1.5bbl system, and I've finally got all the plumbing done, valves hooked up, and ready to go... or so I thought.

It's a single tier, 3 burner system, with the HLT and mash tun controlled with honeywell valves. Here's the setup from tank to burner.
A 500K btu inlet fitting on my 20lb cylinder. http://www.tejassmokers.com/images/IMG_1194.JPG That is connected to a non-adjustable regulator that is set to 0.4psi and has a capacity of 140K BTU. Then a Brasscraft 24" furnace/boiler gas line. It has a BTU capacity of 130K BTU and is 1/2" ID, I believe. I've got this connected to my main gas line on the rig, which is a 3/4" iron gas pipe. This is where I have 3 branches, one going to each burner. For the valve controlled burners, there is a T that reduces to 3/8" coming off the main line. Then a reducer to 1/4" pipe. This goes into a fixed pressure regulator with 0.5psi output and a 200K btu capacity. This goes directly into the honeywell valve
http://customer.honeywell.com/honeywell/ProductInfo.aspx/VR8200A2132 . It doesn't say it on the sight, but the valve has a max capacity of 200K btu, by adjusting the pressure regulator on the valve. It says this on the box it came in. The outlet (1/2") goes to a 1/2" needle valve, then to the burner. The burner is http://www.tejassmokers.com/newproducts_page6.htm , the 20 jet 200k btu version.

I realize I'm not going to get the 200K btu I want with the gas hose and regulator I've got attached to the cylinder. I just put those on to check for leaks and test out the valves. The burner that isn't controlled by a honeywell valve works fine. It's just 1/2" pipe all the way from the main gas line with a 1/2" needle valve. I think it probably gets somewhere a bit over 100k btu. The valve controlled burners are horrible. Nowhere near enough gas flow. Very lazy yellow flame that I don't think even gets up to 50k btu. Here's a couple problems I've had with the valves. I've turned the pressure regulator screw in the valve all the way up, and it had absolutely no affect. I turned it down, and still no affect. Both burners do this same thing. Also, the pilot light (Q314A model) flames won't adjust either! I turned the pilot light adjustment screw both ways, with no affect. The problem with this is that one of the pilots is wayy to hot, and makes the thermocouple glow bright red.

When I have all 3 burners going at once, they still do exactly as what I described. They don't seem to be diminished at all, even though all 3 are going... the valve controlled flames are still very weak.

Is it the regulator or hose on my cylinder, or the gas valves?

So frustrating!!!!!!!!

Sorry there isn't any pictures. I can't get my picture uploader to work.

Thanks for any and all help. I'll post back with pics if I can get my computer to work correctly.

pictures

more pic

burners on!! You can see the valve controlled burners are incredibly weak. I don't know if it's the valves or a combo of the valves and the regulator I've got connected to the cylinder. The REALLY strange part is, adjusting the gas pressure screw either way on the valve doesn't change the flame at all, and adjusting the pilot light screw either way doesn't change the pilot flame at all!

pilot light flame wayy too hot.

bump?

rtockst said:

pilot light flame wayy too hot.

Click to expand...

Wrong orifice in pilot burner

Why do you have 2 regulators? You're already below half a psi with the first regulator. The second regulator makes no sense.
The first thing would be to remove the regulators and put the .5 psi in as the main. Second, I would swap the burner that works properly with another burner to see if it's plumbing or burners.

Actually, the OP is running the regulators in parallel - each is feeding one burner.

Overkill, perhaps, but in this configuration they should both work fine, and if they're low volume regulators, perhaps there is an advantage to running two independent drops off the main gas line...

Cheers!

If you look at the photos there is only 1 tank and 3 burners. The tank has a regulator on it. That means the main line is running at .4 psi or less making the other 2 regulators redundant. It also means more places for leaks etc. In troubleshooting, remove pieces of the puzzle is what helps narrow down the problem. If burner one is working correctly, then we can assume one of the following:

• a: burners 2 and 3 have problems
• b: needle valves 2 or 3 have problems
• c: regulators 2 and 3 have problems
• d: gas valves on burners 2 and 3 have problems

I also believe that the burners are mounted too low. Mount them higher and turn them down.

one more thing I just thought of... if the pilot burner orifice is too large, it willl affect the burner's output. Also, pilot burner plumbing is notorious for leaking.

OneHoppyGuy said:

Why do you have 2 regulators? You're already below half a psi with the first regulator. The second regulator makes no sense.
The first thing would be to remove the regulators and put the .5 psi in as the main. Second, I would swap the burner that works properly with another burner to see if it's plumbing or burners.

Click to expand...

Actually, the OP is running the regulators in parallel - each is feeding one burner.

Overkill, perhaps, but in this configuration they should both work fine, and if they're low volume regulators, perhaps there is an advantage to running two independent drops off the main gas line...

Cheers!

Click to expand...

Here's my attempt at justifying the regulator madness. The honeywell valves have a max inlet of 0.5psi, and a max btu capacity of 200K. Each burner is 200K. So, if I have 1 gas main, and only 1 regulator on that main, I'm either going to be over the 0.5psi limit for the valve if I have only 1 burner on, or I'm going to have less than 200K btu coming out of the burners if each is burning at the same time. So, if I put a 0.5psi regulator before each valve, I can leave the gas main at a higher pressure to make sure I can get enough flow when I have 2 or 3 burners running at once.

I realize the 0.4psi regulator at the tank makes that attempt pointless, but it's what I had to use with the yellow flex hose because it also has a max pressure of 0.5psi. This setup isn't permanent, I'm just testing it out. I just think it's strange that even when only 1 of the valve controlled burners is going, it's still nowhere enough gas flow.

My thought is, maybe, the pressure drop from the tank regulator to the next regulator is what is causing the poor flame.

How about I hook up a 0-60 psi adjustable regulator to the tank and see how it does? I wish I would have thought of that before buying that stupid flex hose.

As for the pilot flame, it did come with another insert orifice. I assumed it was just a replacement, because the spec sheet didn't say anything about switching the insert for LP or nat gas.

Thanks for the suggestions by the way

yeh, there isn't any info on the other pilot orifice
the other orifice should have a splotch of red paint on it

the first burner 'appears' to be running properly on .4 psi
if you're satisfied with the performance of that burner start there.
Think of it, if the first burner is on, there is no way you're going to get enough fuel to the other 2.
Try this: move the tank regulator past the other 2 branch lines

There is a good change your gas valve needs to be converted from NG to LP. The parts to do this should have been included with your gas valve. Also, make sure your pilot has been converted from NG to LP.

gbrewing said:

there is a good change your gas valve needs to be converted from ng to lp. The parts to do this should have been included with your gas valve. Also, make sure your pilot has been converted from ng to lp.

Click to expand...

+1

OneHoppyGuy said:

+1

Click to expand...

I can't believe there isn't anything in there about changing the orifice. That makes sense though, instead of it just being an extra insert when there is already one in the pilot burner.

The burner that works properly is still a little low, so I'll just have to find another higher pressure regulator.

I finally got rid of my regulators and igniter all together, and put the pilots on a needle valve..ya it sux to half to light them manually at the start of the brew but I just wasn't happy with the performance of the burners with the regulator in line..with the LP conversion installed.

There several different models of this igniter on the market. Fairly inexpensive and easy to install. They work pretty good (better than a lighter).

Your link doesn't work, Hoppy. (not hating on you, just curious about that ignitor)

One thing to remember is not to confuse pressure with volume. PSI is pressure, BTU is volume. If you've got 3x 200k BTU burners + pilots you need to be feeding them 600k+ BTUs for all of them to work propperly.

Here's another one
another


they come with 2 to 8 outlets and the electrodes can be purchased separately, many designs and sizes to choose from