Brewpub refused to fill my growler.

So about a month ago, I purchased my first growler from Downtown Brewery in San Luis Obispo, CA. They filled it for me and said that they, and other brewpubs would gladly refill them for a fee. I paid $18 for a full growler.

I went to El Toro Brewery in Morgan Hill, CA and was told that it was against California law for them to fill a growler unless it had their name on it. Has anyone else heard of anything like this, or were they just trying to get me to buy one of theirs?

A FEW GROWLER FILL GUIDELINES:
• You are in charge of bringing in your growler in a clean state worthy of holding great craft beer.
• State law prohibits us from filling growlers from other breweries, or with beer that is inconsistent with the growler's label.
• If you have an OAKED Arrogant Bastard Ale, Double Bastard Ale or Arrogant Bastard Ale 3 Litre growler, it can only be filled with the beer that is on the label. Again, this is state law.

This is Stone Brewings "growler guidelines".

http://www.stonebrew.com/visit/beer.php

Must just be California Law (ie: retarded laws) because in Michigan and Washington that is not the case at all.

And maybe Washington.

What if you have a growler with no name on it?

It's like this in PA also. However, only a handful of breweries actually submit to it. Some even slap a label overtop of the one on the bottle. It's such a joke of a law.

If that's the law, then that's just silly.
At the brewpub I work for in Oregon we will fill anything that will hold beer: growlers, mason jars, thermoses, etc.
I've heard that Deschutes will only fill Deschutes Growlers, but that's all part of a pretty sweet deal they have: pay 26 bucks for a growler and get it filled for only 6 bucks for life.

That all said, when I was in college I'd go to Ithaca brewery and get a growler filled for 6.40 and often 3.20 if it was a seasonal that they were trying to get rid of.

Sorry boys and girls, but this is just Horse waste. If you're buying a brewpub's product, what's the difference if the growler says Howdy Doody Brewery or Marx Bros. Brewery.

I think the Bastards are just trying to sell you another bottle.

(the opinions expressed in this post are solely the author's and not that of the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Fire Arms )

Champurrado said:

Sorry boys and girls, but this is just Horse waste. If you're buying a brewpub's product, what's the difference if the growler says Howdy Doody Brewery or Marx Bros. Brewery.

I think the Bastards are just trying to sell you another bottle.

(the opinions expressed in this post are solely the author's and not that of the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Fire Arms )

Click to expand...

That should be a store, not a gov't agency

I work in a FDA regulated environment and labeling is ALWAYS critical. The issue here is not that the brewery is trying to gouge anyone. It has to do with an apparently commercial product with a decidedly different product contained within. It is illegal for restaurants to fill a Heinz ketchup bottle with a different brand. It is illegal for a bar to dispense Bud from a tap with a Miller tap handle. etcetera for any imaginable similar situation.

On the other hand it is legal for a restaurant to fill a non-labeled ketchup container with any brand that it chooses. etc. See, it is all about mislabeling. This is a cover all measure to protect the public. A company could be sued for huge damages if a problem ever arose from selling their product in a vessel with a different label.

Champurrado said:

Sorry boys and girls, but this is just Horse waste. If you're buying a brewpub's product, what's the difference if the growler says Howdy Doody Brewery or Marx Bros. Brewery.

I think the Bastards are just trying to sell you another bottle.

(the opinions expressed in this post are solely the author's and not that of the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Fire Arms )

Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but to play devil's advocate here, what if someone close to you ends up with an emergency trachiotomy in the back of an ambulance because they drank something from Marx bros. brewery that contained oatmeal and they were allergic when they thought they were drinking Howdy Doody which they knew contained no oatmeal.

dontman said:

I'm sorry, but to play devil's advocate here, what if someone close to you ends up with an emergency trachiotomy in the back of an ambulance because they drank something from Marx bros. brewery that contained oatmeal and they were allergic when they thought they were drinking Howdy Doody which they knew contained no oatmeal.

Click to expand...

I don't think that rationale works here since YOU are the one who chose the container...and YES, they are just gouging customers into buying an overpriced bottle.

If you brought one in without a label or identification then any responsibility should be transferred to the customer.

FKN LAWYERS!!!

I've had a Rogue growler filled by a brewery in CA. I think if it is a law, it's one that is usually ignored. Most likely it is just the brewery misinterpreting the law.

homebrewer_99 said:

I don't think that rationale works here since YOU are the one who chose the container...and YES, they are just gouging customers into buying an overpriced bottle.

Click to expand...

This assumes that any consumption is done by the customer. What about a party? You see a growler in the fridge labeled Three Stooges you have reasonable expectations that it contains Three Stooges.

homebrewer_99 said:

If you brought one in without a label or identification then any responsibility should be transferred to the customer.

Click to expand...

Exactly the point. Something without a label is not mislabeled. The responsibility falls solely on the consumer.

Someone here mentioned the ideal way around this whole issue. Have growlers stickers to slap on any growler that you fill. This remains entirely within FDA regs on labeling.

But any brewpub would be crazy to fill a growler and let it leave their premises improperly labeled in this incredibly litigious culture.

dontman said:

This assumes that any consumption is done by the customer. What about a party? You see a growler in the fridge labeled Three Stooges you have reasonable expectations that it contains Three Stooges.

Click to expand...

But what's to stop someone from buying a growler of one product, taking it home and pouring it in to another growler? If someone is really deathly allergic to something, they would not be going in to someone else's fridge and randomly consuming opened items without asking what it is. And if they are, there is no amount of government regulations that would protect them. So really the responsibility lies with the consumer of the product being informed of what is in a container (and not what the label on it says), not the one who filled the container.

I usually buy a growler when I go to any brew pub for collection purposes anyway. If you like their Brew, buy the growler, support the brewpub and then you won't have worry about the stupid law.


...laying my two cents on the bar...

holden said:

But what's to stop someone from buying a growler of one product, taking it home and pouring it in to another growler? If someone is really deathly allergic to something, they would not be going in to someone else's fridge and randomly consuming opened items without asking what it is. And if they are, there is no amount of government regulations that would protect them. So really the responsibility lies with the consumer of the product being informed of what is in a container (and not what the label on it says), not the one who filled the container.

Click to expand...

You have a valid point ... BUT ... the common sense you espouse does not always prevail if someone decides to take the brewpub to court. They are just trying to take away a possible avenue for legal action.

It's too bad that's the way it is, but it is.

holden said:

But what's to stop someone from buying a growler of one product, taking it home and pouring it in to another growler? If someone is really deathly allergic to something, they would not be going in to someone else's fridge and randomly consuming opened items without asking what it is. And if they are, there is no amount of government regulations that would protect them. So really the responsibility lies with the consumer of the product being informed of what is in a container (and not what the label on it says), not the one who filled the container.

Click to expand...

Civil liability should stop the person from doing so because, contrary to your assertion, the responsibility does lie completely with the person, or organization represented by an agent, who filled the vessel. So if you buy a Three Stooges growler, take it home, transfer it to a Laurel and Hardy minikeg then you are responsible for consequences from that action.

The person consuming the beverage can be considered to have done their due diligence if they read the label of the Laurel and Hardy growler to find out that there are no allergans contained within. Again, they have reasonable expectation that what is inside is what is listed on the label.

I know this is long winded but here is a good example. I recently bought some "Liquor Qwik" two stage fining agent to use on my Blueberry Cider. I was about to put it in to the cider when I read the label and saw that it contained Chitosan. This is a shellfish derivative. Some people can die from consuming shellfish. If I were to bottle this cider in bottles with labels that said "Bob's Cider" and it did not mention chitosan and somebody drank it and died I could lose my house.

Bottom Line: We live in a sue happy world and you have to CYA and you can't blame them for doing the same.

Is it stupid? You bet! But blame the attorneys not the breweries.

dontman said:

Civil liability should stop the person from doing so because, contrary to your assertion, the responsibility does lie completely with the person, or organization represented by an agent, who filled the vessel. So if you buy a Three Stooges growler, take it home, transfer it to a Laurel and Hardy minikeg then you are responsible for consequences from that action.

The person consuming the beverage can be considered to have done their due diligence if they read the label of the Laurel and Hardy growler to find out that there are no allergans contained within. Again, they have reasonable expectation that what is inside is what is listed on the label.

Click to expand...

That is like arguing that a person who breaks into your house and then hurts themself has a right to sue you. If I didn't invite you to drink the beverage and you're rummaging through my fridge without my consent then there is no way it is my responsibility when you consume the bottle of penicillin for my diabetic cat.

Anyway, I'm not arguing about what happens in court because that is all a load of bollocks. I'm just saying who should take personal responsibility for their actions as an intelligent human being. Unfortunately it seems most humans aren't intelligent enough to take responsibility for their own actions, but I know I personally would never go into someone else's fridge without asking them what I'm getting from an open container. If it's a closed/sealed container, then yes what's on the label should match what's inside. But when it's been opened all bets are off. Now if someone handed me a bottle they had filled and told me that what was inside was the same as the label and it was not, then yes I would say the fault lies with the person who filled it. Again this is not my interpretation of what would go on in court, just what common sense tells me.

dontman said:

I know this is long winded but here is a good example. I recently bought some "Liquor Qwik" two stage fining agent to use on my Blueberry Cider. I was about to put it in to the cider when I read the label and saw that it contained Chitosan. This is a shellfish derivative. Some people can die from consuming shellfish. If I were to bottle this cider in bottles with labels that said "Bob's Cider" and it did not mention chitosan and somebody drank it and died I could lose my house.

Click to expand...

That is a different case. In that you are the manufacturer, bottler and distributor, so yes all responsibility lies on you to inform the consumer what is inside.

I wonder if PA has a law like that, because we fill any kind of growler people bring to us at Troegs. We put our own label on all of them, though, so I think that covers it.

SkinnyShamrock said:

I wonder if PA has a law like that, because we fill any kind of growler people bring to us at Troegs. We put our own label on all of them, though, so I think that covers it.

Click to expand...

PA has some horribly anachronistic liquor laws so it wouldn't surprise me. But yes, putting a label on the container 100% covers your bottom parts.

SkinnyShamrock said:

I wonder if PA has a law like that, because we fill any kind of growler people bring to us at Troegs. We put our own label on all of them, though, so I think that covers it.

Click to expand...

My scratch 16 is sitting in a Lancaster brewing co growler .

I always call ahead and ask places if they fill "outside" growlers. most are cool with it. Occasionally some aren't. Iron Hill won't fill outsides, but they will swap your growler for one of theirs for no charge.

I don't need a growler from every brewery under the sun. I went to Roy Pitz yesterday (who do fill outsides), I brought a sly fox growler, then bought a second one from them. so they got one growler sale from me, plus two fills, and a pint glass.

I'm pretty sure my beer distributor's owner would not only fill other brewery's growlers, he'd probably let me fill empty panty-hose eggs with his beer. No kidding - are you serious?!? You're throwing principles of duty owed, proximate cause and forseen consequences into an argument about some quivering, fraidy scared, casper milk-toast brewery owner?!?

HA!

I throw my shoe at you!

stevea1210 said:

My scratch 16 is sitting in a Lancaster brewing co growler .

Click to expand...

If you got it yesterday, I filled it for you I filled a couple LBC and even more Iron Hill growlers yesterday.

What do you think of #16, by the way? I wasn't that impressed with it. It was good, but not as good as I was expecting.

I got a growler from MBC and it has the company name, but no label. They write the beer type on the cap in black marker. I think that the law just wants to be able to track any problems down to the maker, and I don't blame them.

I almost got a growler from Founders in GR, but I had already bought a 4-pack of Harvest Wet-hop and Backwoods Bastard. Not cheap beer. The Fresh Hopped Harvest was awsesum though... I sorely missed getting any Sierra Nevada Harvest, so this was a nice surprise and it tasted great! I'm having a hard time saving it for the New Years Eve party!

Yea well they cannot by Alaskan Law fill a growler with anything over 6%. And if the beer is over 6% i have to pay 16oz price for an 8oz

This is just another reason why California sucks so bad. I have only come to realizing it after living here.

If something exists: California has a law for it

It is as simple as that and 95% of the time, the law is not in the consumers favor.

I could go on about the light bulb standards that I am dealing with right now, but I will just get more pissed off.

humann_brewing said:

It is as simple as that and 95% of the time, the law is not in the consumers favor.

Click to expand...

You forgot about the consumer's protection side though. Like the warning labels that lightbulbs might be harmful if swallowed or that they may contain materials that give lab rats cancer.

At least I find these warnings helpful!

Saccharomyces said:

You forgot about the consumer's protection side though. Like the warning labels that lightbulbs might be harmful if swallowed or that they may contain materials that give lab rats cancer.

At least I find these warnings helpful!

Click to expand...

True and thank God, I may have just eaten my way to becoming a walking lantern

SkinnyShamrock said:

If you got it yesterday, I filled it for you I filled a couple LBC and even more Iron Hill growlers yesterday.

What do you think of #16, by the way? I wasn't that impressed with it. It was good, but not as good as I was expecting.

Click to expand...

Not to anger the brewing gods that are chris and john, but it wasn't the best of the troegs I've had. It definitely is not what I am used to a winter warmer being. I'm used to a porter-ish beer with spices, and a nice alcohol warmth. I know, generic description. that being said, I still enjoyed it.

I got it the first day they had growler fills 12/13, so those weren't me.

I did six months in County when I got caught eating a lightbulb in Sepulveda. Please, please read those warning labels!

humann_brewing said:

This is just another reason why California sucks so bad. I have only come to realizing it after living here.

If something exists: California has a law for it

It is as simple as that and 95% of the time, the law is not in the consumers favor.

I could go on about the light bulb standards that I am dealing with right now, but I will just get more pissed off.

Click to expand...

I don't live in California but I have noticed that a lot of breweries won't send screen printed glassware there due to Prop whatever that requires all printed glassware to carry a warning that it will kill you immediately if you touch it.

I like certain beers on-tap better than in the bottle. My local bar has one such beer. I asked it they could fill a growler so I could take that beer home. They said they are not allowed to sell beer to go unless it is sealed. First question is can any bar sell beer by filling a growler? Second question is how might that growler be sealed to make the sale legal?

Sorry , I am semi inebriated so I have only scanned the first 4 pages. I have had this "law" quoted to me here in the 4 corners area of CO, but EVERY brewery in Denver will fill ANY growler.

To prove this point...instead of arguing about it...I chanllenge any of you to find this law in CO or CA. It's not about labeling bull****, it's about selling their overpriced glass.

Period.

I've never heard of this enforced in Colorado.

Are you in CO Parker?

Not since August. I miss it.

I lived in Vail for aboot 9 years and never had a problem on I-70 from GW Springs all the way to Denver metro, but down here its different....except for San Luis brewing in Alamosa...they'll fill anything.


All about selling the overpriced, silk screened, logocrap glass. Period..

I suppose, but most of the growlers you just put down a deposit. I can understand where they are coming from not wanting to fill a competitor's product.