1 week later... is there still hope for my cider?

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JasonOdd

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I slapped 5 gallons of un-pasteurized, preservative free Minea Farms apple cider and 5 crushed Campden into my 6 gal carboy. 30 hours or so later, I added 1lb brown sugar (boiled w/ water and cooled)
Before the sugar my OG was 1.052, after the sugar it was 1.060

I then added 1 packet of Wyeast Lab's 4184 Sweet Mead activator yeast directly to the carboy and gave it a solid shaking & swirling.

My air-lock never moved or gave any sign of life. I saw no action in the carboy.

It's been at least a week and I decided to give it a smell and test the gravity.

It smells like apple cider with no off-smells and the reading is 1.052.. so I guess something has happened.

I gave it another massive shake and mixed the lees up real good (they had all fallen) and put the air-lock back on it.

Am I making vinegar at this stage? Should I just wait 3 more days and see happens, or is it time to dump $40 of juice on the yard and try again?
 
If it doens't smell off and you're pretty confident of your cleanliness, I would just pitch another round of yeast. Do you have any more? Maybe the Campden wasn't completely gone yet... They should be now.

Definitely pitch some more yeast and give it another week. Don't ditch it unless it starts to smell vinegar-y...
 
May not be enough nutrients for good cell growth, but since the fermentation has started, it should keep working.

What is the fermenter temperature? Wyeast indicates 65-75F, that makes me thing the yeast is very sensitive to temperature.
 
I am fanatical about cleaning and sanitizing and the temp has been 68 - 72 in this room.

So I guess I'll buy another packet of yeast... beer is way cheaper :p

Thanks
 
Yeah. It is expensive. I think Mead is even more expensive to make! $60 for honey to make a 5 gallon batch....

Do you have any yeast nutrients to add, too? Maybe a tsp or 2 should help lots...
 
Take a gravity reading in a couple days. If it is stagnant, re-pitch the yeast after some aeration. Should be plenty of nutes to start fermentation at least.
 
Well.. the airlock just burped! ... Maybe the air from mixing it around and getting the yeast off the bottom will bring this rebel cider into submission!

If the gravity is the same this weekend I'll pick up some more yeasties and "nutes".
 
The airlock's not a great sign of fermentation, just air escaping, although it sounds like you already know this...if it's going constantly, then it's fermenting. :)

If it still doesn't work, or if you have this problem again, try making a yeast starter and mixing it in.
 
another note though, to make vinegar, acetobacter would've had to get in there, usually by fruit flies.
anyway, if it does end up as vinegar, don't throw it away!!! delicious applecider vinegar with the "mother" still in it is expensive to buy in the stores, plus it crazy good for you, and, as stated, it's delicious!
 
another note though, to make vinegar, acetobacter would've had to get in there, usually by fruit flies.
anyway, if it does end up as vinegar, don't throw it away!!! delicious applecider vinegar with the "mother" still in it is expensive to buy in the stores, plus it crazy good for you, and, as stated, it's delicious!

How do you go from hard cider to vinegar? I'd be interested in taking a bottle of my latest cider and making a great vinegar!
 
that's really easy, just get your hands on some acetobacter. go buy a bottle of organic apple cider vinegar, make sure it is cloudy and says the mother is in the bottle. then, take a bottle of your hard cider, shake the hell out of it and open it a bunch (oxygenate it) then dump a shot of that mother filled cider vinegar in there. give it a month or two. done and done.
you might want to open and oxygenate every now and then, but that is up to you.
after that, once your bottle starts running low, just make another bottle with the sludge in your old one, never need to buy apple cider vinegar again.
i don't suggest canning things with this vinegar though as you will not be exactly sure of the acidity (without testing it) and canning needs to be exact. great in salads and stuff though!
 
that's really easy, just get your hands on some acetobacter. go buy a bottle of organic apple cider vinegar, make sure it is cloudy and says the mother is in the bottle. then, take a bottle of your hard cider, shake the hell out of it and open it a bunch (oxygenate it) then dump a shot of that mother filled cider vinegar in there. give it a month or two. done and done.
you might want to open and oxygenate every now and then, but that is up to you.
after that, once your bottle starts running low, just make another bottle with the sludge in your old one, never need to buy apple cider vinegar again.
i don't suggest canning things with this vinegar though as you will not be exactly sure of the acidity (without testing it) and canning needs to be exact. great in salads and stuff though!

Excellent! Thanks! I'll give it a go. So does the process of acidification of the cider convert the alcohol?
 
I can only give my extremely limited experience with cider. If I brew a beer at 1.090 and pitch properly, it reaches FG in like 4 days. If I make a 1.090 cider and pitch the same as I would for an ale but add nutrient, it will take a lot longer to get started and go slowly for about 2 or 3 weeks. It is just mind blowing how long they can eat away at cider.

I hope it's worth the price of the cider! I'm waiting on your experience to convince me to get some cider from Minea farms. My wife will be considerably more accepting of my latest brewing obsession if I make some amazing cider.
 
I can only give my extremely limited experience with cider. If I brew a beer at 1.090 and pitch properly, it reaches FG in like 4 days. If I make a 1.090 cider and pitch the same as I would for an ale but add nutrient, it will take a lot longer to get started and go slowly for about 2 or 3 weeks. It is just mind blowing how long they can eat away at cider.

I hope it's worth the price of the cider! I'm waiting on your experience to convince me to get some cider from Minea farms. My wife will be considerably more accepting of my latest brewing obsession if I make some amazing cider.

Well, I didn't throw any nutrient or extra yeast in there. I just shook it up really good and it started fermenting really nice.

I started a second cider the same day the Minea juice started fermenting. This time I used the $2 Safeway juice and it took 2lbs of lt. brown sugar to reach the same 1.060 gravity the Minea juice had with 1lb of sugar. With the new juice I used the same yeast and let it puff up the package and sit for the 3 hours (the Minea I just tossed it strait in), I also tossed some nutrient in the sugar water as it was boiling. It started fermenting like mad in about 8 hours.

Since your just down the road from me, I'll bring some of both to try when they are done, if you like. I just hope the Minea juice is up to par after just "sitting around" for 5 days in the carboy.
 
I can only give my extremely limited experience with cider. If I brew a beer at 1.090 and pitch properly, it reaches FG in like 4 days. If I make a 1.090 cider and pitch the same as I would for an ale but add nutrient, it will take a lot longer to get started and go slowly for about 2 or 3 weeks. It is just mind blowing how long they can eat away at cider.

I hope it's worth the price of the cider! I'm waiting on your experience to convince me to get some cider from Minea farms. My wife will be considerably more accepting of my latest brewing obsession if I make some amazing cider.

I've had great luck with Costco (Kirkland) brand cider. Better than the Tree Top they also sell. I'm pretty new to this also.

Try taking a cup or so of the juice and toss in a black tea bag and brew that (one bag for one gallon) in juice. Let that cool and add that to your batch. Toss in some yeast nutrient and yeast then let it go.

The black tea adds some tannins which gives it a bit more tartness. I can tell a big difference if the tea is not there.

There are a few places out on the Redmond / Woodinville road that has great cider in the late summer. It is more expensive than the Costco juice but would probably make a better end product.

If you like it sweet be sure to stop fermentation before it goes dry. Mmm....
 
Ckarsanac said:
Yeah. It is expensive. I think Mead is even more expensive to make! $60 for honey to make a 5 gallon batch....

$60!? Where do you get your honey? My Variatel, Raw honey Meads cost a minimum of $80 for 5 gallons, usually more like $100 all-told. My last Hard Cider cost me over $80 as well. Turned out damn good, though.
 
I've had great luck with Costco (Kirkland) brand cider. Better than the Tree Top they also sell. I'm pretty new to this also.

Try taking a cup or so of the juice and toss in a black tea bag and brew that (one bag for one gallon) in juice. Let that cool and add that to your batch. Toss in some yeast nutrient and yeast then let it go.

The black tea adds some tannins which gives it a bit more tartness. I can tell a big difference if the tea is not there.

There are a few places out on the Redmond / Woodinville road that has great cider in the late summer. It is more expensive than the Costco juice but would probably make a better end product.

If you like it sweet be sure to stop fermentation before it goes dry. Mmm....

I've been using the whole foods 365 brand apple juice. It comes unfiltered in glass gallon jugs. It's the best I've had of store bought juice. I just take a quart, reduce it and use it to make caramel with sugar and a little maple syrup. Then add it all back in. Throw in some yeast and go. It comes pre-packaged in a gallon fermenter for me.

Next batch, I'll try the tea! It sounds good.
 
I've been using the whole foods 365 brand apple juice. It comes unfiltered in glass gallon jugs. It's the best I've had of store bought juice. I just take a quart, reduce it and use it to make caramel with sugar and a little maple syrup. Then add it all back in. Throw in some yeast and go. It comes pre-packaged in a gallon fermenter for me.

Next batch, I'll try the tea! It sounds good.

Yeah, I looked at other ciders but the Costco juice is only ~3.50 a gallon.

The tea is great. It's funny because you don't outright taste it but if it's missing you can tell.
 
you folks are getting robbed on your honey! i was just mentioning this on another thread, but raw local honey around st. louis goes for around 33 bucks a gallon or so. gallon = 12 pounds. so a batch of mead runs me about 45 bucks because i use 15 lbs of honey. probably why i make so much of it!
 
Home brew heaven has local honey for 2.65 a pound. Minea farms has honey, but I haven't checked on the price. There are a lot of types of honey, some reasonable and some expensive. It depends on what you are looking for in a mead.
 
I hope it's worth the price of the cider! I'm waiting on your experience to convince me to get some cider from Minea farms. My wife will be considerably more accepting of my latest brewing obsession if I make some amazing cider.

I don't know if I screwed up something in the process or not, but after back sweetening and kegging it, it's horrible. The smell is rank and it tastes like the smell with a hint of the frozen concentrate. I won't drop that kind of coin on juice again. Currently I have 5 gallons of undrinkable cider sitting in a 5 gallon keg hoping that, given time, it will be drinkable.

The apple cider I made with Safeway juice is great and much cheaper. It tastes like the lighter Spire Apple Cider and was fast to run out.
 
How long did it condition before you drank it? My ciders tastes pretty bad before theyre aged. I condition for no less than two months before tasting.
 
It sat in primary for about 3 weeks and secondary for 2. Now it's been in the keg at room temp for about 3 more weeks. It didn't even taste like cider, just whatever that smell it gave off during fermentation that made the whole house unpleasant.
 
thats hydrogen sulfide, fermenting fruits, especially apples, can throw off that scent if teh yeast is slightly stressed. its normal for it to smell a little like that during ferment, but if it becomes strong, you need to de-gas or it is ruined. i dumped a 5 gal of peary, because it wasn't coming back from it.
that smell/flavor won't age out, it actually gets a little worse with age.
 
I'd say the smell was "strong".. we couldn't have people over and avoided the family room for 2 solid weeks. It'll be nice to have that keg back.

I wonder if it'll be good for the lawn?
 
if you have any berry bushes, like raspberries or blueberries they would love it because of the acid. rhododendrons and azaleas too.
 
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