PM version of Edwort's Haus Pale Ale

Greetings. This post can probably go in any of 3 forums (this one, since it's a PM recipe, the extract one, since I'm an extract brewer, or the Beginner's forum, since I'm a noob...). So my apologies if this is misplaced.

I'm very interested in doing the PM version of Edwort's Haus Pale Ale. American Pale Ale's are pretty much my favorite (though I love beer so much that it pains me to pick just one style...). But this recipe seems so well received and I love its simplicity and would like to "join the club" of those who've brewed it.

My questions are as follows:

First, is there any good feedback on the PM version of this recipe? The all grain version is beyond my current skill set and equipment level. But I love the way the author has described a PM version. I have 2 5 gallon pots, a gas stove, and an oven. And I think I can swing how he describes a PM version of the recipe can go. I also priced the ingredients on a few websites, and I think I can do it on morebeer.com for $26 (I have a vial of WhiteLabs California Ale yeast I'd use for one batch, and I think I'd buy enough for 2 batches and use the Nottingham on one of them).

Second, should I be intimidated by the PM nature of this brew? I've made a few extract/steeping grain batches over the years, though I've been mostly inactive for the last 5 years or so. I get a little askeered when reading general PM and all grain techniques, but Edwort's descriptions of just heating grains at ~170 then putting a pot in the oven for an hour then straining and doing it again for like 10 minutes sounds very doable, even for me.

Thanks for any feedback, and I look forward to making this beer. And I look even more forward to drinking several gallons of it I guess I'm looking to see if any of you suggest that I stick with my noob status a little longer and stick with extracts or if you think I should dive in with this recipe.

Don't be intimidated about a partial mash. We all (or almost all) started out doing extract and were intimidated as all get-out before moving to grains. Just read up (which it looks like you have) and go for it. You will find it wasn't as hard, complex or scary as you thought.

It is just homebrew.
RDWHAHB and do it!

Thanks for the encouragement. I love the simplicity of this recipe, and also love reading about how so many folks here have tried it and rave about it.

Unless I'm misreading, I can do this with just my 2 5 gallon pots and a strainer (maybe one other small pot I already have to heat more water). As long as I can do that without rigging up something more complex for sparging the grains (I think I'm using the correct terms here, but I could be wrong), I think I'll go for it.

I brewed my first PM of Eds Pale Ale a week ago. I was brewing outdoors and I could not go with the pot in the oven method. I steeped the grains for 30 minutes on a gas burner, sparged the grains then did a traditional boil with LME for 60 minutes. Remember to time your hops correctly.One thing I did forget was to add a whirlfloc tablet during the last 10 minutes, but the beer is clearing pretty well in the secondary with out it.

Thanks. A couple of stupid questions:

Can I put the grains in a grain bag to eliminate the need for straining? I saw something about this in an article from BYO posted elsewhere on this forum earlier today, and the author talked about submerging the bag and poking around on it with a spoon or spatula or whatever to ensure that there wouldn't be pockets of dry grains. If I could do this without ill effect, it would make this even simpler for me.

Second, if I can't use a grain bag, can I just (carefully, and perhaps with an assistant) pour the contents from one pot through a strainer into the second pot? I guess this is my equipment question on if I'd need to fashion a cooler or something with a strainer on the bottom like more advanced brewers seem to do. I'm thinking just pouring through a strainer is doable, but may be a tough proposition with a big pot and just one person, but I could probably do it carefully.

I'm psyched to try this...

If you really like good beer then you must try making some pale ale in buckets. You can rig up a bucket with a stainless hose braid (strainer) and make excellent all grain beer. You get the grains already crushed and mash at 152F for 1 hour and then rinse them by pouring 185F water over them while slowly draining the bucket. You are now at the point that you are if you were using a liquid or dry malt and boil 1 hour with your hop additions just like partial mash. There is nothing intimidating about it. The difference is that the grains are fresh and canned malt has lost a lot of it's flavors. This is why we brew all grain in the first place. Go for it.

OK, it's possible that I can be talked into actually trying all grain here. I just read up a little about this batch sparging process, and it does look like it would simplify things tremendously from what I've previously read.

Can you correct me if I'm wrong on any of this? Or point me in the right direction?

It looks like, from an equipment perspective, all I'd need is some type of mash tun. Some googling and looking at the Wiki suggests this might just be a converted cooler with a false bottom (basically a big strainer on which the grains sit?). I see morebeer sells one already created for like $85. And I see austinhomebrew.com has false bottoms for like $25, which I'd think I could add to a cooler which costs less than ($85-25) to save some money.

Are there even cheaper/easier methods? You mention a bucket. Could I just get, say, a bottling bucket for <$10 and add a false bottom? I guess the challenge is then insulation?

Am I missing anything here? I realize that trying to dumb down the process completely may not be the best way to get into all grain, and I do want to understand all of this, but if I tried this, I'd be looking to keep things as simple as possible initially.

Lastly, I still have no ability to do full boils in my apartment, but I assume I could do my two simultaneous half boil method like I've used for extract brews without ill effect (two 5 gallon pots going at the same time on my stove, each starting with about 3 gallons to contain my full target volume)? I live in an apartment now, so I can't use a burner outdoors.

Thanks for the help and encouragement....

Cornfed said:

OK, it's possible that I can be talked into actually trying all grain here. I just read up a little about this batch sparging process, and it does look like it would simplify things tremendously from what I've previously read.

Can you correct me if I'm wrong on any of this? Or point me in the right direction?

It looks like, from an equipment perspective, all I'd need is some type of mash tun. Some googling and looking at the Wiki suggests this might just be a converted cooler with a false bottom (basically a big strainer on which the grains sit?). I see morebeer sells one already created for like $85. And I see austinhomebrew.com has false bottoms for like $25, which I'd think I could add to a cooler which costs less than ($85-25) to save some money.

Are there even cheaper/easier methods? You mention a bucket. Could I just get, say, a bottling bucket for <$10 and add a false bottom? I guess the challenge is then insulation?

Am I missing anything here? I realize that trying to dumb down the process completely may not be the best way to get into all grain, and I do want to understand all of this, but if I tried this, I'd be looking to keep things as simple as possible initially.

Lastly, I still have no ability to do full boils in my apartment, but I assume I could do my two simultaneous half boil method like I've used for extract brews without ill effect (two 5 gallon pots going at the same time on my stove, each starting with about 3 gallons to contain my full target volume)? I live in an apartment now, so I can't use a burner outdoors.

Thanks for the help and encouragement....

Click to expand...

Yes, you've pretty much got it! The bucket MLT works, but doesn't hold temps well. When I did PMs in my bottling bucket, I used a great big mesh grain bag to line the bucket, and that was all I used. It worked well, but again, didn't hold temps that well, even when wrapped with a sleeping bag. Still, I got good beer out of it, and used DME for the bulk of the fermentables. For an MLT, a false bottom is great, but many people use simple braids out of SS braids found in the plumbing dept of Home Depot. I have the "pre made" MLT from morebeer.com because I have no skills at all with building things, but you could easily build a cheap MLT.

When I first went AG, I did the split boils that you talk about. It worked. The only thing I worred about was having the runnings split about 50/50 in each brewpot. I wanted to make sure the SGs were roughly equal, as to plan the hops utilization. So, about half the first runnings went into each pot, and then half the sparge runnings in each pot. No problems at all- I chilled one in an ice bath in one sink and one in the other until I got a chiller. This was not an ideal set-up (twice as many pots to clean up!) but it worked fine.

Thanks! I also have zero building skills, so if the price difference isn't huge, I'd rather buy something premade.

That said, here's a video on the topic from youtube. The only part which looks at all complicated is making that tube in the bottom (I'm exposing my zero building skill set with this language



And here is the morebeer.com version I found - http://morebeer.com/view_product/17497/

I guess I need to look into this a little more. If there are substantial advantages of the prebuilt version, I'd happily shell out the cash. Would just mean I'd have to pause on some of the many other equipment purchases I want to get eventually....

Well, I'll tell you the truth- I bought mine from morebeer.com and I'm very happy. However, the 5 gallon one is too small. You can only make 5 gallon batches of up to maybe 1.060 with it. So, I bought the 10 gallon one. Take a look at the price- about $100 or $110 if I remember correctly.

You can watch that video you posted, and make a bigger MLT for under $50. (Probably less if you find a good cooler on sale). I have no mechanical skills, and have seeing my MLT and using it, I realize that I could have made one myself. I'm not sorry I bought the one I did, but it sure isn't complicated at all. Take a look at the DIY threads in the "equipment" area, and there are lots of MLTs you could make. The false bottom is fine, but I'm batch sparging and a braid would have been just as good.

Cornfed said:

Thanks. A couple of stupid questions:

Can I put the grains in a grain bag to eliminate the need for straining?

Click to expand...

Yup, Thats what I used. After I steeped my grains, I pulled the bag out of the water and placed it into a large funnel that was sitting in a bucket. Then I poured hot water over this to rinse all that sugar out.

Cool. The question for me, then, is do I do a PM first or dive right in to all grain? I'm going to read a bit more about MLT options (I'm hoping I'm using the acronyms right) and then flip a coin. I eventually do want to do all grain, so we'll see. It seems the ingredients are about $10 less for all grain when I priced this on morebeer.com earlier. But then I need some MLT solution for all grain, so it would take a few batches to recoup the cost (though that's not my primary concern at the moment...I mostly want good beer!).

I would suggest doing an extract with specialty grains if your just starting. I myself want to get into all grain too, but it gets expensive real fast. I want to learn the process with extract and eventually work myself into AG. This way I get to enjoy the benefits of brewing beer without denting my wallet.

FWIW - My first brew was an extract with specialty steeping grains English Brown ale direct pitch white labs yeast, my second was an all extract Kolsch with a wyeast starter, in my mind they were equivalent in complexity and time. For my 3rd brew I did a 3 gal batch version of the PM EdWorts Haus Ale so I could use the oven/pot method with the pots I already had, it was pretty easy. For my fourth batch I mage a counter top partial mash tun in a 3 gal igloo "ice cube" with stainless braid. I would say I am intermediate/advanced in terms of DIY, but iw was very easy. The hardest part is seperating the stainless braid, if you have or can borrow a dremel style rotary tool, it's easy, plus it's a convenient size to brew in my kitchen. That said, since I have a nice pation and a turkey fryer, after the time energy and effort of building and brewing with the counter top partial mash, I now wish I had built a bigger one for all grain. The jump from PM to AG is a no brainer, in my mind the biggest barrier to AG vs PM is the volumes you are dealing with.

EDIT: Spelling

Sounds like a nice progression in terms of complexity of your brews. And I agree with your last statement about the difference being volume. For me, at least for batch sparging an all grain version of this recipe vs. doing it as a PM, that translates to "do I need to buy/build a MLT before my next beer, or not?"

Thanks everyone for all of this information. This has been an informative thread for me, and it's also encouraged me to break out an old papazian book and do some web searches on the topic. I'm still a noob, but I think I'm headed in the right direction....

My suggestion would be to buy/build the biggest one you can afford. You can always cut down on head space with a piece of insulation trimmed to fit the tun. That way you don't waste time and cash on a smaller one when you figure out afterwards that you wish you just made/bought a bigger one.

YooperBrew, I'm trying to get him to try all grain without too much extra expence and maybe if he makes a batch and can taste the difference he will go get a 10 gallon cooler althouugh I would just go get the cooler anyway but that's just me.

Well, I agree- because I don't know of anyone who goes AG and then says, "Oh, the beer isn't very good, I'm going back to extracts". There are several AG brewers on HBT who do still make an occasional extract batch, of course, due to some time constraints or space.

I encourage you to read everything you can and then decide. I did it in baby steps- others dive right in. We just want you to be comfortable before you come over to the dark side!