Naughty (spicy) and Nice (smooth) Christmas Ales. HELP, PLZ!

So I figure it's a good time to start my christmas (x-mas, channukah, kwanzaa, winter solstice, etc.) brew, so that I can let it sit for a while before I bottle, then it can bottle condition for a while before I give it out.

I want to brew two beers, and give them both out. One will be labeled "naughty", and the other "nice" (get it? Like santa's lists? Clever, ain't I?). Anyhow, I'd like the naughty to be a spiced red ale, around 10%, and the Nice to be a (vanilla?) Stout/Porter, around 8%.

So... here's the q's

1. A lot of Hefes have a good "spicy" quality to them, as do a lot of cervezas. Would I be able to add corn/wheat to a Red ale recipe, or ferment with a hefe yeast, to replicate some of that spice?

2. Which hops would give me that spicy edge in the Naughty ale? I'm a fan of the tang that comes from centennial, but it's a little to grapefruity for what I was thinking.

3. So far, it seems like Cinnamon, cloves, orange peel, and ginger are the standard spices. What about a hint of actual spicy peppers? peppercorns? Star anise? I'm friends with a guy who owns a specialty spice shop, so nothing is off limits here. Wasabi? allspice?

4. Would vanilla work well in a stout? I'm probably going to use an amped up version of niguejim's https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f68/dark-owl-sweet-stout-55233/

Any and all comments are helpful! Thanks in advance!

There is a recipe for a chillie beer in BYO July-Aug 09 edition. But I guess that's not very christmasy.

People have put vanilla in stouts before. Some love it others hate it. Never personally had it though. But I would like to try it.

I think its a really cool idea though.



-Nick

Wow lucky guy, full spice store. I have seen allspice used before, and pepper corn might be a good addition, but you can also get a similar peppery flavor out of grains of paradise which is pretty common in brewing. I've had star anise in a lot of christmas beers, not my thing but obviously doable. I might suggest a blend of cinnamon, allspice, nutmeg, and maybe dried cherries or something like that.

@idgenius2000: Yeah, the spice store and I are trading spices for beer (agorism, ftw). Star Anise is pretty licorice-y, right? Do grains of paradise have that same thing going on?

I think I'm set on Black pepper, Cinnamon, nutmeg, allspice?, and perhaps some actual spicy pepper. I'll probably make some tea to test out the flavor profiles.

That sound good?

Rye can add a note of spice. Something like hop-rod-rye but changed around a little to be sort of a imperial red? or a hybrid IIPA/IRA. If you could get some spicy cinnamon and some rye flavor that might be interesting

Thanks shek! I'll make a test batch with a little rye (maybe follow a hop-rod-rye clone), and see how that tastes. Do you think a Hefe yeast would enhance the spice? ruin it?

I was thinking about starting a Christmas-spiced dunkelweissen, so I want to hear what others think of the spice/hefe mix. Maybe ginger/allspice/cherries?