Cost increase in grain

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bandt9299

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Just got back from my LHBS and he told me that the price of grain is going to increase 2 fold in the upcoming months, needless to say he was very discouraged, as was I. Time to buy a few hundred pounds. What have you guys heard?
 
This is the third time this topic has come up. You are NOT buying grain. You are buying MALT!!!

The cost you pay for your malt includes the cost of buying the grain. And the cost of storing it in the silo, paying for the silo and the person to manage them and maintain the silos. It also includes the cost of shipping that grain to the maltster. To ship it there, they have to pay a train engineer to drive a train loaded with malt. And they have to pay the maintenance guys to maintain the trains and the tracks. Then they pay the guys to offload the grain into the maltster's facility. Then there's the cost of malting the grain- energy, time, and space is required for the process. And of course, you have to pay the maltster so that he can feed his family. And you also have to pay all the employees of the maltster! They don't work for free! Don't forget that the malt has to be bagged and stored. Bags cost money. After an order is placed (by an ordering department somewhere), the bags probably go on another train to another storage facility. Right there is another train engineer and a bunch of track workers who also need to get paid. Then, they off-load the sacks and store them in a warehouse. Warehouses require real estate and facilities. Warehouses. And a warehouse manager. And that warehouse manager needs to feed his family too! And he manages employees and forklifts and keeps the roof repaired on the warehouse. And all those people who work around that facility, even the roofers, all have families to feed. And then the warehouse has a shipping department and that shipping department negotiates for cheap trucking prices and they get that grain trucked to the LHBS or the brewery- in exchange for their salary. So they get paid, and so do the truck drivers who drive the malt. After all, truck drivers have families too! Then you have your LHBS who needs to feed his family and pay rent in a retail district to sell you the grain.

The bottom line is, the price of grain is maybe eight cents a pound. the cost of malting, storing, transporting, and of course, profit accounts for the remainder of what you pay... When you really think about it, it's amazing that ANYTHING can get to your door for less than a dollar a pound!!!!!

Anyway, the "price of grain" just includes whatever the farmer is paid to grow it. That's like maybe eight cents a pound, I believe. So a fifty percent increase is an extra four cents a pound.
An extra four cents a pound isn't going to break the bank for me...
 
If by saying "two fold" he thinks going to need to charge $80 for a sack, he's way off. Let's say he's right, that increase would carry down all the way to commerical beers so homebrewing all grain wouls still fall in the same value as it does today.
 
I've heard that the cost of grains could be going up a bit due to farmers getting government money for growing corn (for E85 and other alternative fuels), but I have not heard that prices would be doubling. That seems quite high to me. How honest is the owner of your LHBS?
 
$.04/lb!? Okay, I have a brand new AG system for sale... wait, then I could afford grain.. but Id have no brewing equipment! Umm, I am asking my boss for a raise to fund my obsession.
 
If the cost of grain goes up by a % then this doesn't mean malt goes up by the same %. If it does you are being ripped off.


The article reports that Colorado Commissioner of Agriculture John Stump explains the price of agricultural raw materials is just a small fraction of the price of most processed foods. In his more accurate example he shows the real impact of barley price increases:

"the price of barley is now about $4 for a 46-pound bushel. It typically takes about a pound of barley to produce a gallon of beer. Thus, even with today's higher grain prices, the barley in a gallon of beer costs about 9 cents - or roughly a dime for a six-pack of beer that sells for anywhere from $3 to $5 in a package store and far more if the barley is brewed into the kind of "craft beer" featured in Denver brewpubs."

So the TOTAL cost of barley, even with an increase, is just 9 cents out of a $5.00 six pack. For those of you without a calculator, that's less than 2%. OK, let's be precise, 1.8%.

The article then goes on and accurately explains the other cost drivers impacting beer prices:
 
My home brew shop is excellent I get treated very well, and the prices are excellent especially for malt. His wife works there too and she is the one that told me that prices could almost double. Sorry for jumping to conclusions, but my shop is surely NOT a rip off by any means. So I kind of believed her. Doubling does sound a bit steep.
 
Whenever economic factors come into play, retailers like to "prepare their customers for the worst". I'm not saying that they're going to lie to you, but the economic reality might look something like this:

Each person who has their hand in the grain industry, might see this "huge increase" as a great time to tack on an extra half of a penny per pound to their profit margin.

Instead of paying 8 cents a pound for barley, the maltster pays 12. So he increases the cost of his product, by 5 cents rather than 4. He blames it on the cost increases and nobody knows the difference. At the end of the day, the maltster has a little more money to feed his family. Then the truckers, and the warehouses, and distributors and everybody else will tack on a penny, or a nickel or whatever. By the time it gets down to the consumer, there is a price increase completely out of line with the economic reality. It kind of sucks at first blush, but don't think of it as being a rip off.

Prices fluctuate, income levels fluctuate. Sure, you might make a rock-steady $15 per hour because you work for a corporation, but "real life' isn't like that for business owners. Some days their margins get squeezed to hell due to market forces and people will squeeze every nickel and dime they can out of them. Other days, the market will just "accept" an increase because they know the market is afraid to push their suppliers too far. It's not really anybody attempting to gouge, it's just cut-throat businesses trying to reclaim their margins.

If they go too far though, a few players will take advantage of the over-reaching and go on another round of price cutting. So it's really nothing to fret about. Just accept that it's part of the capitalist system.... It's just folks, up and down the line, trying to take care of themselves. We can't really fault them for that, can we?



Cheers! :mug:
 
Damn Squirrels said:
Whenever economic factors come into play, retailers like to "prepare their customers for the worst". I'm not saying that they're going to lie to you, but the economic reality might look something like this:

Each person who has their hand in the grain industry, might see this "huge increase" as a great time to tack on an extra half of a penny per pound to their profit margin.

Instead of paying 8 cents a pound for barley, the maltster pays 12. So he increases the cost of his product, by 5 cents rather than 4. He blames it on the cost increases and nobody knows the difference. At the end of the day, the maltster has a little more money to feed his family. Then the truckers, and the warehouses, and distributors and everybody else will tack on a penny, or a nickel or whatever. By the time it gets down to the consumer, there is a price increase completely out of line with the economic reality. It kind of sucks at first blush, but don't think of it as being a rip off.

Prices fluctuate, income levels fluctuate. Sure, you might make a rock-steady $15 per hour because you work for a corporation, but "real life' isn't like that for business owners. Some days their margins get squeezed to hell due to market forces and people will squeeze every nickel and dime they can out of them. Other days, the market will just "accept" an increase because they know the market is afraid to push their suppliers too far. It's not really anybody attempting to gouge, it's just cut-throat businesses trying to reclaim their margins.

If they go too far though, a few players will take advantage of the over-reaching and go on another round of price cutting. So it's really nothing to fret about. Just accept that it's part of the capitalist system.... It's just folks, up and down the line, trying to take care of themselves. We can't really fault them for that, can we?



Cheers! :mug:
I think you're off a bit, but it comes down to this...every increase is passed on to the consumer...
 
orfy said:
Nothing wrong with a supplier increasing cost but they don't need to lie about it or blame in on someone else.

Yeah, they kind of do have to lie about it. If you had 10 suppliers to choose from and one told you they were upping the cost by a buck a bag "because we can", you would immediately go and see what the other 9 suppliers were charging. But if you blame it on the cost of grain, it may buy you enough time to get a few more orders out of the guy. What's more, if he doesn't question it, then his bosses won't be pissed that he's not getting the rock bottom lowest price.

Sales is all about relationships. The buyer isn't going to see your bottom line. You've got some fudge-factor there. If they like you, if you're an honest guy, you can get a few more nickels per bag without raising eye-brows. That's what relationships are all about. Everybody knows you're taking care of your own interests, but if they trust you not to gouge them, then a couple nickels won't raise eyebrows. Now, if you start competing just on price, then my model doesn't work. But when you're talking about microbreweries and anything else that must depend on top quality ingredients, you can't just shop people down to the cheapest dollar amount because, again, you'll get what you pay for. Here's where the relationships come into play. You trust that a guy is giving you a quality product at a competitive price. If you trust he will always do that for you, then you will forgive an minimal up-charge because you know the guy can be trusted.

So yeah, the truth may be that you're trying to make up your margins, but if you tell that to your buyer, you open yourself up to being shopped around. He has loyalty to his company, after all. But just say you are doing your best, absorbing costs as best you can, and you can likely float along with a better profit margin.. at least for a little while.

It's just part of the cycle... every industry has them. Feast and famine. There are times when things are good and a dime is meaningless. There are times when throats must be cut to save a nickel. Capitalism is a precise mechanism, but it isn't instantaneous enough to obscure the natural cycles that occur in any industry.

Personally, I'm betting that you'll see politicians pushing for an increase in alcohol taxes as a result of the barley increase. It'll be less noticed. I bet you'll see better margins all the way down the line. It's a chance to recoup your margins that have been battered in recent times. A few weeks/months/years later, things will go the other way and margins will be cut. This will hurt the salespeople selling the malt, but its just part of the natural cycle. There's an up and down. It happens in every industry.

One industry with which I am very familiar is counter-cyclical to the economy. They make their money by taking old things and helping them last longer. So when the economy is great, people buy new, and when the economy sucks, people restore/rehabilitate what they have. As a result, margins are greater in a bad economy, because people simply won't buy new. When the economy is great, the industry puts a clamp on their margins to try to really compete with new things- and usually fails anyway because, well, who doesn't like new stuff?

We think of economies as being very fluid, but when you dig into them, cycles are pretty undeniable. I think malt has been improperly cheap lately. I think it needs to be rectified by the economy. And it can't be avoided.

Again though, thankfully, we're talking about pennies per pound.
 
On a lighter note, I just shot a squirrel about 10 min ago. Little sucker never saw it coming. :rockin:
 
orfy said:
Sales is a relationship and should be a honest and truthful one.

Trust your fellow man. But always cut the cards.


Everybody should be honest and truthful. But that doesn't mean you have to open up every detail of your life to the person you're selling to. Honesty and truthfulness is important. But you can't just publicize everything you do and the reasons therefor... because it will make you a fool for shrewder parties.
 
Well , Well,sorry for beating a dead horse, all I care about is how much more money will come out of my pocket. (which time will tell) all this mumbo jumbo means nothing to me, grain-malt, it's all about the MONEY!!!!!
 
Damn! I'm glad I have 400 pounds of various grains on hand. Pils, Wheat, Pale, Vienna & Flaked Barley.
 
bandt9299 said:
Hey Ed drinking your Haus Pale Ale right now, good stuff, Thanks

Cool. Thanks. It's a standard here at my house. Something you can drink all the time any time! Loved by many, even BMC drinkers, but not a BMC.
 
Pull this thread out of the dead but does anyone think this major drought will inevitably increase the cost of our malt to brew with?
 
Well,I don't think it'll be two-fold,but it will go up. So far as US grain/malts are concerned. This drought is hitting the whole middle of the country pretty hard. Even countless acres of corn are already dead & brown. Cattle ranches having to sell their heards now since feed costs too much to keep up with. All the grass out there is mostly brown already.
So the grain crops here won't be that good this year,depending on what area it comes from.
And some of those wild fires burned hop fields as well,from what I've seen here & there on nbc.com.
 
If the cost of grain goes up by a % then this doesn't mean malt goes up by the same %. If it does you are being ripped off.

Stop and think about that for a minute. If I am selling a product that costs me $.80/lb. for $1.00/lb. and my cost increases by 10% I will then be paying $.88/lb. Would it be fair to me, the one buying the product and shouldering the cost of running the business, to raise what I sell this product for to any less than $1.10/lb keeping my 20% markup? This means I gross $.02 more per lb. for a gross profit of $.22/lb. instead of $.20/lb.

The reality of any product related business is that you need a certain markup on a certain volume of product to cover the cost of doing business before you make a nickel of profit. Price increases are generally not related to a single product or service. A trickle-down affect usually takes place and many other products and services increase in cost as well. Look what higher fuel prices have done to the cost of most any product as an example.

Like someone else said in a previous response, if the price of malt goes up, commercial beer will also cost you more and the value of brewing your own will still be there.

Happy brewing,

Bob
 
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