hybrid electric brew kettle

I've got an idea...tell me if I'm being stupid....

I'm currently doing extract brewing in my kitchen. I started out with a smaller pot boiling 3 gallons and adding 2 gallons to make a 5 gallon batch, but my girlfriend got me a 32qt brew kettle for Christmas so i could do full 5 gallon boils. Here's the problem, my stove is old, and it take forever to get 5 gallons of water boiling.

I had the idea of adding an electric heating element to my brew kettle like This, but I live in an apartment and don't have a 240v circuit and don't really want to go through that much trouble, so i'm stuck with normal 120V outlets. I'm assuming that a 120V electric heating element wouldn't pack the punch to get things boiling, so there's no point in that......but what about together?

Rig up a 120V heating element to use as a boost to my crappy stove top?

picture of crappy stove

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Finally get to follow up on this post

I completed the modifications yesterday and brewed 2 batches with it. Everything went great

here she is in action


inside


outside


Basics
-Brewer's Edge 32-Quart Brewkettle
-Kettlevalve
-3/8" Kettlescreen for Kettlevalve
-Brewer's Edge Weldless Thermometer
Camco 02963 5500W 240V 14-Inch Screw in Lime Life Ripple Element Water Heater

-various other parts listed at The Electric Brewery

I basically followed the instructions from The Electric Brewery except i used a 120V GFCI plug. The only complaint i have is that the cord is too stiff. I'm going to have to replace that. I also want to put some high-temp paint on the outlet box to make it look better

as far as brewing technique, the only issue is that i don't think dumping LME into the pot would work to well, so what i do is heat up 2 gallons in my old kettle and mix in the LME with that and dump it into this pot and brew as normal. Without the heating element, my stove struggled to barely hold a boil. With it, I had the stove turned down to medium.

I use a 120V 1500W heatstick to assist my stove. It works great for full boils.

i should have done some more reading and searching 1st :rockin:

How to make a Heat SitckLove Brewing Company
I think I'll modify this design a bit, but that should do it for me.

Lancer033 said:

i should have done some more reading and searching 1st :rockin:

How to make a Heat SitckLove Brewing Company
I think I'll modify this design a bit, but that should do it for me.

Click to expand...

Im glad you enjoy, that is my website.

I've actually since modified the design in that i changed the element. The smaller element worked fine for about a year or so, then when i went to make a pumpkin ale the pumpkin during the boil seemed to scorch and adhere itself to the element, thus burning up the element. I've since upgraded to a 240v 5500w ulwd(ultra low watt density) element. It is exactly the same wattage when run on 110v, but since it has a much larger surface area it is much gentler.

Prost!

thank you for posting it.

I'm looking at this Camco heating element from amazon

and i was thinking about using a GFI plug instead of having to install a GFI outlet in the kitchen.

have any thoughts on that?

Lancer033 said:

thank you for posting it.

I'm looking at this Camco heating element from amazon

and i was thinking about using a GFI plug instead of having to install a GFI outlet in the kitchen.

have any thoughts on that?

Click to expand...

Your Kitchen should already be on a GFCI, either at an outlet (just because the outlet your plugging into doesn't look like a GFCI, doesn't mean that the circuit isn't on a GFCI), or at the panel. If it isn't, I'd install a GFCI receptacle just for peace of mind when using other appliances in the Kitchen.

And I'm assuming since you've read other threads, the 220v element you listed won't run at 5,500w on 110.

I'll double check to be sure about the kitchen, but i'd just like to be extra safe

correct, if i understand correctly it should be 1/4 of the watts at 1/2 the voltage so ~1375w

xjncoguyx said:

Im glad you enjoy, that is my website.

I've actually since modified the design in that i changed the element. I've since upgraded to a 240v 5500w ulwd(ultra low watt density) element. It is exactly the same wattage when run on 110v, but since it has a much larger surface area it is much gentler.

Prost!

Click to expand...

To clarify, you can run 240v on a 110v outlet?

No, but you are ran a 240v heating element off 120volts, it just produces less watts and less heat.

Running a 240V element on 120V puts out 1/4 the wattage. So a 5500W element puts out 1125W. Better to run a 120V 1500W element, as you get more power!

Also, that camco ripp element is frigging huge...sure it'll even fit in your pot?

For ease of handling and use, I'd suggest much smaller.
Amazon High density element: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006IX89Q/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Plumbing Supply Elements, including Low Density and Extra Low Density Incoly: Electric water heater elements, thermostats and faq's - PlumbingSupply.com

Get one of those, much better.

xjncoguyx said:

but since it has a much larger surface area it is much gentler.

Click to expand...

Can anyone else speak to this? I want to say I have heard on a few brew tours that they avoid direct firing for a steam jacket, because a concentrated heat source will caramelize some of the fermentation darkening the wort. Obviously this would only matter for lighter beers, but I don't want to limit myself. Also I'm guessing the larger elements provide more resistance, but how may amps do these pull?

Just an FYI I live in an apartment too, do all grain, using a keggle to boil and the 60,000 BTU burner I use isn't exactly approved.

bstux said:

Can anyone else speak to this? I want to say I have heard on a few brew tours that they avoid direct firing for a steam jacket, because a concentrated heat source will caramelize some of the fermentation darkening the wort. Obviously this would only matter for lighter beers, but I don't want to limit myself. Also I'm guessing the larger elements provide more resistance, but how may amps do these pull?

Just an FYI I live in an apartment too, do all grain, using a keggle to boil and the 60,000 BTU burner I use isn't exactly approved.

Click to expand...

from Heating Elements

The element is ultra low watt density (ULWD) which means that the heat produced per square inch along the element is very low which reduces the chance of scorching or caramelizing the boiling wort. These elements are typically folded over on themselves making the effective length twice as long as a regular element. This particular element uses a zig-zag pattern to make it even longer still, further reducing the amount of heat produced per square inch.

Is ULWD really required however? In discussions with many other electric brewers who use 'standard' density electric elements, the whole idea of scorching or caramelization seems to be mostly Internet folklore. We haven't come across one concrete example where this has happened, but we feel it's better to be safe than sorry, especially considering that the cost of ULWD elements is minimal compared to 'standard' elements.

There is however one very good reason to use ULWD elements over regular elements: They won't break if fired up "dry" (not immersed in water). When a regular element is fired up "dry" the element will pop fairly quickly (usually before you notice your mistake!) as there is no water to dissipate the heat. While nobody means to fire up an element like this, mistakes do happen. Using ULWD elements provides you with a little bit of insurance against these human errors. Popping an element is about the last thing you want given that you've likely already milled your grain and have everything ready to go.

Click to expand...

Perfect! Thank you.

I mounted a weld less HWD 1500W heater element to my pot and use the stove as an assist to that. I love it. It runs on 120v. My beer does not have any caramelization and tastes better than before. Its a nice simple design and in my eyes safer than a heat stick. If you would like I can post pictures and instructions.

ekjohns said:

I mounted a weld less HWD 1500W heater element to my pot and use the stove as an assist to that. I love it. It runs on 120v. My beer does not have any caramelization and tastes better than before. Its a nice simple design and in my eyes safer than a heat stick. If you would like I can post pictures and instructions.

Click to expand...

Please do.

bstux said:

Can anyone else speak to this? I want to say I have heard on a few brew tours that they avoid direct firing for a steam jacket, because a concentrated heat source will caramelize some of the fermentation darkening the wort. Obviously this would only matter for lighter beers, but I don't want to limit myself. Also I'm guessing the larger elements provide more resistance, but how may amps do these pull?

Just an FYI I live in an apartment too, do all grain, using a keggle to boil and the 60,000 BTU burner I use isn't exactly approved.

Click to expand...

There are threads and posts all over HBT that talk about ULWD units. More surface area = less hot spots. I never experienced any carmelization or scorching with my 1500w, the only problem i had was with the pumpkin sticking to it and scorching thus forming a coating on the stick and frying it(they need to be in contact with water at all times). So i decided to go with the ULWD so i wouldn't have any risk of carmelization at all and no risk of popping it. It was worth it for the extra 10$

oh....i did check on the size of that heating element i listed, it's got a minimum pot size of 15" and my kettle is 15.5"

the other advantage to using a 240v heating element is that when i do buy my own place, all I'll have to do is swap out the plug and call it a day.

Lancer033 said:

the other advantage to using a 240v heating element is that when i do buy my own place, all I'll have to do is swap out the plug and call it a day.

Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing, granted if I have a SWMBO by then I'll have to make an argument that the laundry room is actually a brew room that hasn't had ventilation installed yet.

Lancer033 said:

Please do.

Click to expand...

First off I apologize for this taking me so long, its been a rough week. I just did a quick write up with pics, and I hope it helps. If you have ANY questions do not hesitate to ask!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/stove-assisted-ekettle-293644/#post3650142

I like the way you did that ekjohns. Very simple and effective. I have a keggle I'm in the process of switching over, and want to use two or thee 120v elements for boiling. I sometimes brew at camp and need the 120v to run off the generator. I've thought about the heat sticks (have one now) but thats just more to haul and get banged up in the back of the truck. I have a three plug GFCI plug for the generator that would work perfectly for this set up. Thanks for the info. folks Cheers

the nice thing about my set up is if you want to disassemble it, all you have to do is unscrew the locknut and nut holding the ground wire. When I store mine, I do this and then everything gets coiled up and placed in the kettle for storage.

ekjohns said:

the nice thing about my set up is if you want to disassemble it, all you have to do is unscrew the locknut and nut holding the ground wire. When I store mine, I do this and then everything gets coiled up and placed in the kettle for storage.

Click to expand...

sounds good. The keggle I'm putting together is for 8-10 gal. batch's, with the IC mounted inside, so the elements will be some what permanent. I batch sparge so everything else goes in the MLT or a bucket. We spend a day brewing & drinking, and at the end the wort goes in an ale pale with a lid, clean up transport everything the next day and pitch the yeast at home. Makes for a nice weekend at camp. Cheers

Finally get to follow up on this post

I completed the modifications yesterday and brewed 2 batches with it. Everything went great

here she is in action


inside


outside


Basics
-Brewer's Edge 32-Quart Brewkettle
-Kettlevalve (included with the Brewkettle)
-3/8" Kettlescreen for Kettlevalve
-Brewer's Edge Weldless Thermometer
Camco 02963 5500W 240V 14-Inch Screw in Lime Life Ripple Element Water Heater

-various other parts listed at The Electric Brewery

I basically followed the instructions from The Electric Brewery except i used a 120V GFCI plug. The only complaint i have is that the cord is too stiff. I'm going to have to replace that. I also want to put some high-temp paint on the outlet box to make it look better

as far as brewing technique, the only issue is that i don't think dumping LME into the pot would work to well, so what i do is heat up 2 gallons in my old kettle and mix in the LME with that and dump it into this pot and brew as normal. Without the heating element, my stove struggled to barely hold a boil. With it, I had the stove turned down to medium.

Do you think this would hold a rolling boil without the assistance of your stove?

Not on 120v. It's only cranking out 1375 Watts so it needs the stove. I kept the stove on high until the boil started then turned it down to keep things under control.

Lancer033 said:

Not on 120v. It's only cranking out 1375 Watts so it needs the stove. I kept the stove on high until the boil started then turned it down to keep things under control.

Click to expand...

+1 Mine needs the stove on at about 75% to get a nice boil

Plug the heating element into a temp controller and you've got yourself a homemade sous vide machine