FAQ: Aluminum Pots for Boil Kettles?

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mezman said:
Have people had problems scorching their beer with cheaper/thinner Al pots?
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My aluminum pot is about as cheap and thin as they get, and I've never had a problem (with AG). I have scorched some settled LME, but I've done that in stainless too.
 
northernlad said:
Update pots are 3003. 4mm for pots like APT-60, 6mm for APT-60HD
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Hmm...I don't think that's true.

I just got a reply back from Update about what alloy they use to make their pots (nice and fast too). Susan Lin says it's 1100 series aluminum.

Matthew,

Our stock pots are made of 1100 series aluminum.


Best regards,

Susan Lin
Purchasing Manager
Update International
Tel: (323)585-0616 ext.122
Fax: (323)585-0939
Web: www.update-international.com
Click to expand...


So then the next question is, when it comes to our purposes, does it really matter if a pot's 1100 or 3003 or 3004? Especially when a 60 Qt 3003 pot can be had for only $57? If it dents up, I'll get a new one. I'm more worried about scorching the beer or maybe 1100 aluminum leeches more Al into the beer than a harder alloy would.

Iono, I'm sure I'm making a bigger deal of this than it deserves. But I guess that's what hobbies are about. :mug:
 
mezman said:
Hmm...I don't think that's true.

I just got a reply back from Update about what alloy they use to make their pots (nice and fast too). Susan Lin says it's 1100 series aluminum.




So then the next question is, when it comes to our purposes, does it really matter if a pot's 1100 or 3003 or 3004? Especially when a 60 Qt 3003 pot can be had for only $57? If it dents up, I'll get a new one. I'm more worried about scorching the beer or maybe 1100 aluminum leeches more Al into the beer than a harder alloy would.

Iono, I'm sure I'm making a bigger deal of this than it deserves. But I guess that's what hobbies are about. :mug:
Click to expand...

That is unfortunate. I will call Andrew from Update in the morning and see what he has to say.
Meanwhile: from http://www.aviationmetals.net/aluminum_sheet.php

1100
Low strength aluminum alloy has excellent corrosion resistance and satisfactory anodizing and conversion coating finishing characteristics. It is unmatched by any other commercial aluminum alloy in workability. Readily to welding, brazing, and soldering. Machinability is poor and tends to be "gummy". Non-heat treatable. Typical applications include chemical storage, processing equipment, kitchen utensils, and general sheet metal work.

3003
Approx. 20% higher strength than the 1100 series, but retaining an excellent workability rating. May show some slight discoloration when anodized, but reacts well to mechanical and organic finishings. 3003 is easily welded and brazed, but solder is limited to the torch method. Like 1100, tends to be "gummy" when machined. Non-heat treatable. Typical applications include food and chemical equipment, appliance components, truck and trailer roofing, heat exchangers, and lawn furniture components.

While I was apparently incorrect about Update, the Crestware brand uses 3003 and Lincoln uses 3004.
 
Yeah, that's kinda what my research showed as well, northernlad. I think that I might go with the 60 Qt Winco 3003 Al pot. At only $57, it's not a huge investment if it turns out to not be what I need. And if it does, well all the better!
 
cjever19 said:
So this $57 pot is now $67. Anyone know of any other deals?
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If $67 is too steep, you can watch it, maybe the price on it fluctuates. Or look for other stores selling them.

I've been quite pleased with the pot. No complaints or problems yet though I've only made three brews since I got it in May. I'd pay $67 for this pot again if I needed a second for some reason. I think it's worth it.
 
I just emailed Charlie Papazian about this as I'm about to move to all grain. Here is what he told me:


Like good quality stuff, a stainless steel pot won’t wear out nor lose its value.

Aluminum comes in different grades and I personally don’t like the idea of it being in contact with beer.

I have never ever seen aluminum used in a professional brewery. There might be a good reason, other than cost.

Aluminum also won’t stand the extremes of heat which might happen on occasion or when you use jet propane burners.

Hope this helps
Charlie
 
I don't want to be the guy who contradicts Charlie, but the idea that Aluminum won't handle heat is not exactly true. A pot does not get significantly hotter than its contents. Aluminum is used in commercial applications from 33,000 BTU range burners to 90,000 BTU stock pot ranges with no ill effect. Running it dry is an entirely different story.
Obviously a cheap pot is a cheap pot so let that be your guide.

And I am not sure what he meant by "other than cost" as Aluminum is cheaper than SS.
 
camiller said:
I have this kettle, I'm happy with it.
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The specs on the Sam's Club website are pretty poor. Will you tell me the dimensions of your pot? Diameter, height and most important, wall thickness?

I just ordered a Royal aluminum pot because it has a 6mm (.236) wall. My old pot was 4mm (.157) thick for about the top 2 inches, but then stepped down to less than half of that. I’m hoping that the thicker wall will transmit heat better.



Edit:
Haven't used the new one yet and the Sam Club price is better. Might be worth swapping if the specs are the same.
 
AnOldUR said:
The specs on the Sam's Club website are pretty poor. Will you tell me the dimensions of your pot? Diameter, height and most important, wall thickness?

I just ordered a Royal aluminum pot because it has a 6mm (.236) wall. My old pot was 4mm (.157) thick for about the top 2 inches, but then stepped down to less than half of that. I’m hoping that the thicker wall will transmit heat better.



Edit:
Haven't used the new one yet and the Sam Club price is better. Might be worth swapping if the specs are the same.
Click to expand...

It's 17.25 inch deep with an outside diameter of 16.25 inch (at the top) The wall thickness at the top is about 1/8 inch so just under 4mm so the inside diameter is about 16 inches. It might get a little thinner as you go down, it's hard for me to tell, but after using it for almost two years now It looks like it did when it first came out of the box. When I first got it I did boil water in it to build up the oxide layer inside.
 
camiller said:
It's 17.25 inch deep.
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Thanks for the information. The one I'm looking to get is a little lower profile so it will fit under the microwave on my kitchen stove. Boiled 9 gallons in a 10 gallon pot last night. :eek:

I need a bigger pot! Can't wait til it gets here. 10 gallon batches . . .

You can see what I mean about the wall getting thinner a couple of inches down from the top. I didn't really notice until drilling the hole for a ball valve.

DSCF0002.jpg
 
Just picked up a new Brinkman 60quart pot from Home Depot ($39) last night. Going to test boil in it today to see what kind of boil off I get, plus I need to build up my oxide layer.
 
Eddiebosox said:
I have never ever seen aluminum used in a professional brewery. There might be a good reason, other than cost.
Click to expand...

They don't use aluminum in breweries for one simple reason: you can't use caustic cleaners with it.

On a commercial scale, aluminum is tougher to clean. Plenty of commercial kitchens cook in aluminum
 
40gallon $130 new

I've been using it now for a few months.

pot1.jpg


Best investment yet. Now I gotta get me one of them low presure big BTU buners.

All you gotta do to put an oxide layer on is boil water in it for an hour.

Very easy to drill for taps, and thermowells, etc.:rockin:
 
i too picked up that 60qt from home depot its still in the box. I was on the fence on if i wanted to keep it or return it.

would this be a good pot to put a coupling on via the soldering method?

I can't find any kegs in my area and don't want to spend $100 + on a new one.

-=Jason=-
 
AnOldUR said:
I just ordered a Royal aluminum pot because it has a 6mm (.236) wall. My old pot was 4mm (.157) thick for about the top 2 inches, but then stepped down to less than half of that. I’m hoping that the thicker wall will transmit heat better.
Click to expand...


Actually the thicker wall will transfer LESS heat than a thinner wall. It will resist dings and dents better, but will be marginally less efficient at getting the heat to the liquid.

:mug:
 
7Enigma said:
Actually the thicker wall will transfer LESS heat than a thinner wall.
Click to expand...
I understand your reasoning, but my thought was that the thicker wall would disperse the heat over a larger area rather than just at the point where the flame hits the pot. And that this would utilize the heat better. So, I guess my choice of words was bad. Transfer should have been disperse, but is my logic still faulty in thinking that it will improve boiling efficiency?

I ended up going with a 50 gallong pot. Doesn't seem much better than the 40, but it fits on my stove top and I can get 11 gallons to a decent rolling boil. Here's it in action. About 45 minutes into the boil and a good gallon has boiled off.

Don't know if the "pot vest" helps, but it looks snazzy. :cross:



Aluminum is Good!
 
The word I'm still stuck on is efficiency. Efficiency basically means how much btu get to the wort (and how much can be removed during cooling). If you were using the traditional "stick the pot in an ice bath" rather than a chiller setup a thicker pot would be much more damaging during the quick chill to get to pitching temperature but I see your pot has a valve on the bottom so I'm assuming you are not cooling in the brew pot.

What you may potentially get (and again we are probably splitting hairs here, my original post was more to prevent people from reading the comment and thinking a 1" thick pot would be best :)), is a more even boil. I can't say for sure as I have never tested different thickness pots, but my personal setup using a turkey frier is extremely thin aluminum pot, and I can almost instantly get a boil over by goosing the heat once at a steady rolling boil. I doubt a slightly thicker metal would drastically reduce this, but it might a little bit.

What you will get is more lost heat through the sides of the pot in a thicker container (but your vest should help to mitigate that). That is one of the things I am seriously considering fabbing for my pot as I realize there is a tremendous amount of waste heat being lost with a turkey frier pot (very tall and relatively skinny compared to most pot sizes). Now that the temps are getting colder and I do this outside I need to minimize heat lost to conserve the propane tank.

So again, don't fret, you'll probably see no actual loss in efficiency, but you probably also won't see much in terms of a more even boil....but science doesn't always work out as planned!
 
AnOldUR said:
I ended up going with a 50 gallong pot. Doesn't seem much better than the 40, but it fits on my stove top and I can get 11 gallons to a decent rolling boil. Here's it in action. About 45 minutes into the boil and a good gallon has boiled off.


Aluminum is Good!
Click to expand...

You got a 50 gallon pot to fit on your stove??? :drunk: I think you mean 50 quart :)
 
cjever19 said:
You got a 50 gallon pot to fit on your stove??? :drunk: I think you mean 50 quart :)
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No. No. No. I wrote “gallong.” That's the unit of measure used exclusively in this region. It’s derived by calculating how much liquid is left after exposing a gallon of beer to radioactive solar particles for a really long time.

:eek::drunk::confused:
 
So im about to buy some parts for my 15 gal pot

I found a vendor I can buy from at work that isn't going to bend me over on the price.

my plan add 2 1/2 couplings one for the ball valve and the other for the Tee for thermostat and site glass.

the hex nipple because I hate using close nipples and this is easy to tighten.
the barb fitting to go in my ball valve so I can hook up to my counterflow chiller.

site glass to be purchased from BobbyM at Brewhardware.com

YInc6.jpg



any suggestions before I pull the trigger on parts.

the savings on the keg tools offsets the higher cost of the ball valve plus shipping from one location saves on shipping as well.

anyone else need anything send me a PM.

-=Jason=-
 
AnOldUR said:
Try Bargain Fittings a vendor here on HBT.



Specialize in brew fittings. Great prices!
Click to expand...

bargain fittings is more expensive than buying direct from my vendor at work. and they are selling the exact same fitting / valves I am buying so why pay more when I am just trying to get started?

-=Jason=-
 
Flomaster said:
bargain fittings is more expensive than buying direct from my vendor at work.
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For the $2.25 difference I'd rather support Bargain Fittings.
And what about the Gasket and other brew specific stuff?

(Or are you actually scamming your work place to pay for shipping or the whole order?)

2 piece full bore
BF = $14.50
Your Vendor = $15.00

1/2" Hex Nipple
BF = $5.00
Your Vendor = $5.00


1/2" Nipple x 1/2" hose
BF = $6.50
Your Vendor = $6.25

1/2" Coupling
BF = $4.00
Your Vendor = $3.00

1/2" Tee
BF = $4.00
Your Vendor = $2.50
 
I see where your coming from pay slightly more and support the industry. I might ask the boss if he can make me a deal and sell for cost I'd save a good amount then with out paying the markup.


-=Jason=-
 
Can anyone tell me the diameter of the 60 quart Sam's Club pot? Just want to confirm it will easily fit on 2 burners on my stove before ordering.

Thanks
 
yeah i just got a free 5 gallon stainless steal pot from my aunt who never used it. it doesn't conduct heat as well as my other 2 larger aluminum pots. will probably use it for partial boil extracts though so i don't have to use 2 burners.
 
I have a 10 gallon, 6mm thick aluminum pot I got on ebay for about $45. Drilled a hole and added a valve for another $18. It heats super evenly and has performed perfectly. 20 batches with it so far and if I had it to do over I would buy the same pot again. As far as cleaning goes....who cares, it gets boiled for 60 to 120 minutes each batch. I just rinse and wash it with a cloth each brew session, you want a patina residue to form on aluminum cookware, it's like anodizing.
 
Cookiedds said:
I have a 10 gallon, 6mm thick aluminum pot I got on ebay for about $45. Drilled a hole and added a valve for another $18. It heats super evenly and has performed perfectly. 20 batches with it so far and if I had it to do over I would buy the same pot again. As far as cleaning goes....who cares, it gets boiled for 60 to 120 minutes each batch. I just rinse and wash it with a cloth each brew session, you want a patina residue to form on aluminum cookware, it's like anodizing.
Click to expand...

Please accept politly my words of inof as a fellow Al pot user. You do need to still run a scrubby over it to get the Oxidized hop oils off, it doesn't matter how long it boils they will contribute off flavors. And its not really "patina" like old brass or "seasoned" cast iron it's just oxidized aluminum.
 
Oxidizing aluminum actually seals microscopic pores in the pot and renders it less reactive than a shiny clean aluminum pot. Read my post more closely and you'll see I clean my pot with water and a wash cloth before and after each brew session. You should never use a scrubbie on a non anodized aluminum pot, it just makes it more reactive to the acidic wort and can contribute undesireable flavors and color to a lighter session beer.
 
I'm actually conditioning my new aluminum pot now (first brew in it will be this coming weekend)... I tried the oven method, but it didn't do jack (looked the same coming out as it did going in, even gave it more time to no avail)... While the water was getting up to boil temp (this is a 32 quart pot, with ~30 quarts of water in it right now) the pot was getting darker (where the water was touching it). Even the lid started to darken (very nicely)... Now that I've had a boil going for about 15 minutes, it's DARK in there. Not sure if it's the water, or the surface of the pot, or both yet... I plan on letting it go the full 30 minutes tonight and then drain it once it's cooled down to a safe level. That's the only down side to the aluminum pots (that I can see)... The entire thing (handles and all) gets HOT... But at 4mm thick, I figure it will last me a lifetime. Or at least a "Brewer's age"... :mug:

The reason I put as much water into the pot as I did was under the statements made about wanting to condition it to the highest level you'll use it at (or that you can)... I'm seriously tempted to try putting even more water into the pot, to get a full inside oxidation layer in it. The only thing holding me back is not wanting to get burned by boiling hot water. :eek:

Question for Cookiedds... Do you use any cleaners on the pot once conditioned? Even mild dish soap on a sponge? Or do you just rinse it really well with hot tap water to get the residue out and then wipe it inside?
 
I usually use a little dish soap on a sponge, if you let it soak a bit it cleans up nicely this way without removing the oxidation layer. Again, you want it clean but not sanitized or sterile, the boil will do that for you.
 
Cookiedds said:
I usually use a little dish soap on a sponge, if you let it soak a bit it cleans up nicely this way without removing the oxidation layer. Again, you want it clean but not sanitized or sterile, the boil will do that for you.
Click to expand...

Should the dark coating be the same where water touched the aluminum? I've noticed that the bottom isn't 100% the same color as the rest of the pot insides (where water touched)... I drained it just a few minutes ago, so that it will dry/cool overnight. I'm thinking of doing another session with the pot tomorrow, to build on the coating from today. I might pre-heat the water with a smaller pot, then get another batch up to temp to pour into the 32 quart pot... I'd like to get as much of the inside coated as possible. There's a good inch, or two, of space from the top lip that's not coated...

Do you do anything to get a coating on the lid, or does that not really matter? It looked like I was getting something on there during the process, but now it looks like it did before the conditioning...
 
Don't worry about the lid and don't get too concerned about the pot either, just keep using it. The color will change all the time, especially when you brew a super hoppy IPA or an Imperial Stout, don't worry about it. Be more concerned with accurate mash temps, good notes (or Beersmith logs), cleanliness and sanitization, fermentation temps, good yeast starters and your beer will improve each batch you brew.
 

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