Photos and Insider's Look at a Beer Competition

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Pappers_

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I judged at a competition yesterday: the 22nd Annual Charlie Orr Memorial Chicago Cup. I took a few photos and wrote a brief insider's look at a beer competition here http://www.singingboysbrewing.com/The-Blog.html?entry=inside-look-at-a-beer

If anyone wants to talk about competitions, how they are run, or judging, add a post.

roger-and-bill-small-59175.jpg
 
I judged at a competition back in October, the Southern New England Regional Homebrew Competition, and I have to admit I did marvel at the level of coordination an organizer must have to keep track of everything. It does help to have good stewards and other support staff. As a judge I didn't really see all that much behind the scenes stuff regarding admin and organizing the entries. I definitely am excited to get my results from my tasting exam so I can do some ranked judging of my own. Nice write up and it made an interesting read.
 
I just entered 5 beers to be judged (first competition!) in the http://alamocitycervezafest.org/ and they posted there would be multiple different judging days over the course of a couple weeks. Is this standard procedure?

Thanks for the insight as I was actually just thinking of asking exactly how a judging a competition breaks down!
 
I just entered 5 beers to be judged (first competition!) in the http://alamocitycervezafest.org/ and they posted there would be multiple different judging days over the course of a couple weeks. Is this standard procedure?

Thanks for the insight as I was actually just thinking of asking exactly how a judging a competition breaks down!

At the Chicago Cup, we had an evening judging session for meads and ciders earlier in the week in addition to all day Saturday, with two sessions, one in the morning and one in the afternoon.
 
Nice write up-- That was the first competition I ever entered and I was amazed at all the work and planning that took place. By the way, the guy sitting between use at dinner(can't remember his name just that he was wearing his jacket and winter hat because he was freezing, which should of tipped me off to move seats) gave me his cold.
Cheers Kevin!!!
 
Excellent post and write up Pappers. The amount of work that goes into organizing a competition is crazy! I've only ever judged, but having everything organized and ready to go ensures that we can focus on the beers at hand and get out at a decent hour! I hope this encourages more people to volunteer at their local competitions. I really enjoyed talking with our stewards and asking them their opinions about the beers after we had judged them.
 
Competitions are fun- but a lot of work too! Thanks for the photo.

I was going to judge at the first round of the NHC at the end of this month in Milwaukee, but it turns out that Saturday is my daughter's baby shower. I don't think I can get out of that for beer! :cross:

Judging is fun, and it really helps develop your palate. I really liked when I did the first few comps that I was paired with a very experienced judge and that taught me so much.

Organizing a competition is a huge undertaking- and that's why I said "never again!" after the last one. But I think I'm ready to organize another one after this crazy summer is over. Maybe Pappers, you can come judge? :D
 
i just judged and entered my first competition this last weekend. It was smaller as it was only British beer styles. I helped judge the stouts with two bjcp judges. That helped a lot.

My robust porter took third behind a Baltic porter and a brown porter. Both the brewers are bjcp judges and have been brewing way longer than myself. So i'm pretty proud of grabbing a 3rd place in my first competition.

very nice write up!
 
Competitions are fun- but a lot of work too! Thanks for the photo.

I was going to judge at the first round of the NHC at the end of this month in Milwaukee, but it turns out that Saturday is my daughter's baby shower. I don't think I can get out of that for beer! :cross:

Judging is fun, and it really helps develop your palate. I really liked when I did the first few comps that I was paired with a very experienced judge and that taught me so much.

Organizing a competition is a huge undertaking- and that's why I said "never again!" after the last one. But I think I'm ready to organize another one after this crazy summer is over. Maybe Pappers, you can come judge? :D

I'll come judge!

The NHC judging in Milwaukee is April 16th I think - Nancy and I are going up on Friday with a couple, having dinner, spending the night the off to judge. I really hope that isn't the same day as the baby shower so you can join us!
 
Nice write up-- That was the first competition I ever entered and I was amazed at all the work and planning that took place. By the way, the guy sitting between use at dinner(can't remember his name just that he was wearing his jacket and winter hat because he was freezing, which should of tipped me off to move seats) gave me his cold.
Cheers Kevin!!!

Kevin! Its cool when real life and online friends match up!

I didn't know that guy, sorry you're sick. Nancy's feeling almost normal now but couldn't come to the dinner because of a really bad cold.
 
And it doesn't end. Tomorrow night the organizing committee gets together to assign the prizes that weren't handed out at the dinner and package /mail those that aren't local.
 
We all want to brew or quaff that example of home brewing at it's finest but what about those attempts that get entered into competition that just aren't... worthy? Do you, as a judge, let them down easy or hammer them with harshness?

Has anyone entered a brew that failed judging (what would a failing score be? <10?)? How did that make you feel?
 
We all want to brew or quaff that example of home brewing at it's finest but what about those attempts that get entered into competition that just aren't... worthy? Do you, as a judge, let them down easy or hammer them with harshness?

Has anyone entered a brew that failed judging (what would a failing score be? <10?)? How did that make you feel?

The lowest we've been "allowed" to give is 13. But we fill out the scoresheets fully, with good feedback. Generally, I've been told to give at least one piece of real and helpful advice for every 10 points subtracted. So, for a 13 beer, I'd give at least four pieces of good advice. I'd also make sure to note WHY the scores are the way they are.

To be frank, most of the beers I've judged have not been very good. I think brewers are looking for helpful feedback, and submit beers for criticism so they can improve. I've had a couple of "world class" beers, and maybe handful of "very good to excellent" to judge. The rest have been "good", "fair", or "problematic".
 
Joe- I like that you won't beat a dead horse. But...

Yooper- With all your wisdom I'd love to get a beat down from any judge (Joe or yourself included!) just to get the feedback you speak of. That's the primary reason I think homebrewers should submit their beers. If somehow on the off chance they do well or even place well, then at least they know what to keep doing consistently.
 
How do you get your hombrews into a competition?

Take a look at this calendar of AHA and BJCP sanctioned competitions http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/competitions/aha-bjcp-sanctioned-competition/calendar

Follow the links to the competition's website, register and enter your beer. There is usually a $6-12 fee. If you find one locally, that's the easiest, then you can drop off your beer at a designated drop-off location. Or you can ship your beer via UPS or Fedex to any competition anywhere.
 
We all want to brew or quaff that example of home brewing at it's finest but what about those attempts that get entered into competition that just aren't... worthy? Do you, as a judge, let them down easy or hammer them with harshness?

Last year at one of our local comps, I was lucky enough to judge meads with the head brewer of one of the larger microbreweries in the country. Early in the session, he said something that's really stuck with me. Paraphrasing, his philosophy is that you want to help people improve, and that you also want them to enter the same competition next year. Beating up on them isn't going to make them want to come back, so the idea is to be honest, but still constructive and encouraging. Regardless of whether or not you could justify a courtesy score of 13, that's just going to hurt somebody's feelings. He scores a little charitably - but keeps the overall score in the 14-20 range - for such entries. That score reduces embarrassment and discouragement for the entrant while still indicating there is significant improvement to be made. Your feedback will help them improve next time, and you're not doing anything that is going to affect the higher-scoring entrants.

I like his approach because I think it really reduces the chance of a 'why should I enter a competition again' reaction that extremely low scores can generate.
 
Cool Write up

I had a few beers in and took a couple of 3rd places , in fact one in the California Common category!

I've put beers in 3 competitions now and find the feedback to be interesting. Sometimes the same beer (from same batch) can get scores that are 5-10 points different from comp to comp.

I do think that the first two/three judges make or break your ability to get a ribbon, if one of them gives you a "low" score you can't make it to next round and have a chance.

Thanks for the writeup, and I'm local to the South Suburbs if you are having trouble getting rid of prizes! I will make sure I get to the awards next year.
 
Cool Write up

I had a few beers in and took a couple of 3rd places , in fact one in the California Common category!

I've put beers in 3 competitions now and find the feedback to be interesting. Sometimes the same beer (from same batch) can get scores that are 5-10 points different from comp to comp.

I do think that the first two/three judges make or break your ability to get a ribbon, if one of them gives you a "low" score you can't make it to next round and have a chance.

Thanks for the writeup, and I'm local to the South Suburbs if you are having trouble getting rid of prizes! I will make sure I get to the awards next year.

One of the distinguishing features of the Chicago Cup is that everyone who has a beer that places gets not only the ribbon(s) but a prize. Watch your mail!
 
Pappers_ said:
One of the distinguishing features of the Chicago Cup is that everyone who has a beer that places gets not only the ribbon(s) but a prize. Watch your mail!

Got it. Thanks!
 
Pappers, nice write-up.

I just worked my first competition as a steward for the Drunk Monk Challenge a few weeks ago. I always figured there was a lot of work involved in running a comp, but until I got to experience it first hand I did not realize how organized a well run competition needs to be. Everything from the unboxing the weekend before the comp, to the setup the day of the comp, to the actual judging takes a ton of planning, coordination of volunteers, and attention to every little detail.

BOSS runs a nice comp, I just wish my entries would have scored a bit better and I would have been able to be there in person for the results. One entry was a "feedback" beer that I thought was decent, but needed some help, and another one of my entries may have been just past its peak so I didn't know how it would do.
 
I'll come judge!

The NHC judging in Milwaukee is April 16th I think - Nancy and I are going up on Friday with a couple, having dinner, spending the night the off to judge. I really hope that isn't the same day as the baby shower so you can join us!

It's the 19th & 20th. I'll be up there as well. Not sure if you know who I am, but I was also at the BOSS comp and judged the Best in show.

Also, I'll be getting my last two points for Master rank at Milwaukee!
 
The lowest we've been "allowed" to give is 13. But we fill out the scoresheets fully, with good feedback. Generally, I've been told to give at least one piece of real and helpful advice for every 10 points subtracted. So, for a 13 beer, I'd give at least four pieces of good advice. I'd also make sure to note WHY the scores are the way they are.

To be frank, most of the beers I've judged have not been very good. I think brewers are looking for helpful feedback, and submit beers for criticism so they can improve. I've had a couple of "world class" beers, and maybe handful of "very good to excellent" to judge. The rest have been "good", "fair", or "problematic".

That's an interesting take on the process and pretty neat. My personal approach to judging is that when an entrant gets their scoresheet back and reads it, the score absolutely should match up with what is written. I try and use as much of the scale from 0-50 as possible to create a continuum. I try and mentor people to do the same sort of thing; the whole scale is there for a reason. If you send back a sheet that says that basically everything is okay for the style, no major flaws but you give him a 25, you're not doing your job. I've never had anyone ask me why I gave them the score, it's always about the impression I got and how can they pick it up. Like Yooper said, you have to give them feedback, that's ultimately what they're paying for. Unless you just want hardware!
 
Last year at one of our local comps, I was lucky enough to judge meads with the head brewer of one of the larger microbreweries in the country. Early in the session, he said something that's really stuck with me. Paraphrasing, his philosophy is that you want to help people improve, and that you also want them to enter the same competition next year. Beating up on them isn't going to make them want to come back, so the idea is to be honest, but still constructive and encouraging. Regardless of whether or not you could justify a courtesy score of 13, that's just going to hurt somebody's feelings. He scores a little charitably - but keeps the overall score in the 14-20 range - for such entries. That score reduces embarrassment and discouragement for the entrant while still indicating there is significant improvement to be made. Your feedback will help them improve next time, and you're not doing anything that is going to affect the higher-scoring entrants.

I like his approach because I think it really reduces the chance of a 'why should I enter a competition again' reaction that extremely low scores can generate.


Great input! It's actually contrary to the vast majority of commercial brewers in my experience. Most are terrible judges that I've dealt with and most already know that...
 
Pappers, nice write-up.

I just worked my first competition as a steward for the Drunk Monk Challenge a few weeks ago. I always figured there was a lot of work involved in running a comp, but until I got to experience it first hand I did not realize how organized a well run competition needs to be. Everything from the unboxing the weekend before the comp, to the setup the day of the comp, to the actual judging takes a ton of planning, coordination of volunteers, and attention to every little detail.

BOSS runs a nice comp, I just wish my entries would have scored a bit better and I would have been able to be there in person for the results. One entry was a "feedback" beer that I thought was decent, but needed some help, and another one of my entries may have been just past its peak so I didn't know how it would do.

What styles did you enter? Just wondering if I may have judged them...
 
Cool Write up

I had a few beers in and took a couple of 3rd places , in fact one in the California Common category!

I've put beers in 3 competitions now and find the feedback to be interesting. Sometimes the same beer (from same batch) can get scores that are 5-10 points different from comp to comp.

I do think that the first two/three judges make or break your ability to get a ribbon, if one of them gives you a "low" score you can't make it to next round and have a chance.

Thanks for the writeup, and I'm local to the South Suburbs if you are having trouble getting rid of prizes! I will make sure I get to the awards next year.

Beers change. A lot. I've had beers that continue to evolve throughout their life on tap. Remember, it's a living thing. I will say, though, that you know you have a good one when you get consistently high scores ;)

As to the first set of judges making or breaking your ability to place, I'd say yes and know. When a mini best of show is set up, each group of judges send forward there top 1-3 beers to go head-to-head with the other groups' top beers. If you weren't in the top of your flight, you won't get pushed on. The whole point of this is to minimize scoring biases. It's not uncommon for the highest scoring beer to not be the winner of a category. Some judges naturally tend higher. Other times judges are "off" a bit or more "on" and more readily able to pick up on flaws, etc.
 
It's the 19th & 20th. I'll be up there as well. Not sure if you know who I am, but I was also at the BOSS comp and judged the Best in show.

Also, I'll be getting my last two points for Master rank at Milwaukee!

Hi Brian, we'll be coming up on the 19th and judging on the 20th. Lets seek each other out and make sure we connect. Congrats on getting the points for Master, that is a wonderful accomplishment! Well done!
 
What styles did you enter? Just wondering if I may have judged them...

I entered a Robust Porter, IIPA, and Irish Red.

The robust porter was judged by Eric Duske and Timothy Racette.

The IIPA was judged by Ken Getty and Ron Stazuk. It was a feedback beer and from the comments past its prime for aroma by the time it went to this comp. Other than the lack of aroma due to the age of the beer, the comments I received from this comp were about the same as the other comps that I sent the beer into.

One of the judges for the Irish Red was actually a fellow member of the Urban Knaves of Grain (Matt Klausner), and I have already jokingly given him a little grief over his comments (even though I think they were valid for the most part).

Overall, I think the judging from the three comps that I entered so far this year have all been very good. The comments were well thought out, and helpful. On my beers that scored well, there were good suggestions on things to try to possibly make it better. On the beers that did not score well, I saw just as much encouragement as I did helpful suggestions. Even an "Altbeir" that really missed the style, had comments from a judge that when paraphrased basically said that I made a really good beer that he would enjoy drinking again, just not an "Altbeir".
 
I entered a Robust Porter, IIPA, and Irish Red.

The robust porter was judged by Eric Duske and Timothy Racette.

The IIPA was judged by Ken Getty and Ron Stazuk. It was a feedback beer and from the comments past its prime for aroma by the time it went to this comp. Other than the lack of aroma due to the age of the beer, the comments I received from this comp were about the same as the other comps that I sent the beer into.

One of the judges for the Irish Red was actually a fellow member of the Urban Knaves of Grain (Matt Klausner), and I have already jokingly given him a little grief over his comments (even though I think they were valid for the most part).

Overall, I think the judging from the three comps that I entered so far this year have all been very good. The comments were well thought out, and helpful. On my beers that scored well, there were good suggestions on things to try to possibly make it better. On the beers that did not score well, I saw just as much encouragement as I did helpful suggestions. Even an "Altbeir" that really missed the style, had comments from a judge that when paraphrased basically said that I made a really good beer that he would enjoy drinking again, just not an "Altbeir".

Matt's a friend of mine and I regularly bust his balls a little bit. The guy's always winning, so I figure sometimes a little busting is in order! Glad to hear you're getting good feedback. I rarely hear from people so I don't know if there are things I can/should improve on my scoresheets. I guess it's good that I'm not hearing back though...
 
I have lately received a few scoresheets with comments that I thought were too brief. After judging small stouts followed by porters at a competition earlier this year, I understand that there are only so many ways to comment on coffee aromas, but a judge who uses only four words in any of the sections is not doing her/his job as well as they should, in my opinion.
 
I have lately received a few scoresheets with comments that I thought were too brief. After judging small stouts followed by porters at a competition earlier this year, I understand that there are only so many ways to comment on coffee aromas, but a judge who uses only four words in any of the sections is not doing her/his job as well as they should, in my opinion.

I am of the same opinion. As a judge who also enters competitions, I try and fill out each and every score sheet as if I were going to receive it.

I've received score sheets that have literally said only "smoke" in the aroma section, "smoke" in the flavor section and "good" in the other sections. 40/50. I can't say that getting that score sheet back was worth my entry fee.

Pappers, thank you for doing a write up on how competitions work and shedding a bit of light on just how much work goes in to running one. Perhaps this should be a sticky somewhere since the topic comes up so often?
 
I have lately received a few scoresheets with comments that I thought were too brief. After judging small stouts followed by porters at a competition earlier this year, I understand that there are only so many ways to comment on coffee aromas, but a judge who uses only four words in any of the sections is not doing her/his job as well as they should, in my opinion.

I found myself guilty of this on a few entries i judged. All I can say is that judges are in different stages of learning. A BJCP judge has proven that they can find the flaws and articulate them to the brewer. Some of us just starting out or helping with a competition with a serious shortage of judges may not be as good with that just yet. That being said there where only a couple of beers i did this with. What can you really say when a stout tastes like a green jolly rancher, besides watch you fermentation temp and sanitation.

judging needs to be encouraged among homebrew clubs and i would rather get a less comments than there be no competition at all. Everyone needs to start somewhere. I plan on continuing to judge and improve, though i don't see BJCP in my future.

What I know is this. Regardless of how well the judges give notes the better beer seems to win. $.02
 
I found myself guilty of this on a few entries i judged. All I can say is that judges are in different stages of learning. A BJCP judge has proven that they can find the flaws and articulate them to the brewer. Some of us just starting out or helping with a competition with a serious shortage of judges may not be as good with that just yet. That being said there where only a couple of beers i did this with. What can you really say when a stout tastes like a green jolly rancher, besides watch you fermentation temp and sanitation.

judging needs to be encouraged among homebrew clubs and i would rather get a less comments than there be no competition at all. Everyone needs to start somewhere. I plan on continuing to judge and improve, though i don't see BJCP in my future.

What I know is this. Regardless of how well the judges give notes the better beer seems to win. $.02

Heh, actually if it's tasting like a green jolly rancher it's most likely caused by racking off the yeast too soon before it's had time to clean up the beer ;-)

I do agree that judges are all at varying skill levels. A new judge can still attempt to fill in the scoresheet though. 'Good' is never acceptable and the judging partner of a newer judge that writes these kinds of scoresheets should be guiding them to fill in the scoresheet better.
 
Nice write up! I, too, am entering my first competition and truly had no idea what was involved. I have been a judge in another hobby for a few years and can see a lot of the similarities for organizing them.

Thank you!

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