The Minute Maid Apple Cider Mini-Experiment

This is a spin-off thread from this topic on bread yeast and apple juice: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/apple-juice-bakers-yeast-123970/

When I read about adding a small amount of bread yeast to a bottle of apple juice, I thought it would be neat to try this out myself. I took it a step further for both fun and my own knowledge and decided to try this with a beer yeast and wine yeast to see how each turned out. The idea was to see if I could (cheaply) create a pre-bottled, drinkable apple cider with minimal effort.

The basic setup is this:

There are 12 bottles of 450ml Minute Maid Pure Apple Juice (Apple Juice Concentrate, Vitamin C and Mineral Water). Each bottle had 45 grams (3 tablespoons) of dextrose dissolved into them.

I purchased a package of Coopers Ale Yeast (7g) and a package of 1118 Champagne Yeast (5g), plus has some Fleishmans Bread Yeast at home (about 7g).

I split the bottles of apple juice into three groups (one per yeast type) of 4 bottles and evenly split the yeast packages across each bottle, which worked out to about 3/4 of a teaspoon per. I capped each of them off with a balloon, poked a couple holes in them and put them away.

The OG reading was 1.066.

I plan test one bottle from each group 3 weeks, 6 weeks, 9 weeks and 12 weeks apart. I will take the gravity readings only at that time and provide an update on just how palatable the 'cider' turned out. Because I only plan to do a taste test at each interval I will probably cap the bottle after taking the reading/tasting (unless it is really tasty and it just happens to get consumed).

I will put up some photos tonight.

On a side note, I set this up last night and checked in on them this morning. They are all bubbling away, though the bread yeast and 1118 yeast much more then the beer yeast. The bread yeast is very cloudy. I cannot wait to see how these turn out (unless they all turn into hooch and I go blind ) as I think this will be a good lesson in my brew-du-cation.

I'm interested to see how they compare. Cool experiment!

sub the dextrose for honey or DME and you will get a better tasting drink IMO.

Sounds advice and definitely something I will be doing with my future ciders, but I had neither DME or honey available at my house and I was trying to keep costs down. I think the total cost per bottle works out to about $1.50 a bottle including everything (bottles, dextrose, balloons, yeast).

In hindsight the cost is almost as much as a bottle of cider from the store goes for, but for the sake of educating myself in the ways of brewing I still feel its worth it.

Bradinator said:

Sounds advice and definitely something I will be doing with my future ciders, but I had neither DME or honey available at my house and I was trying to keep costs down. I think the total cost per bottle works out to about $1.50 a bottle including everything (bottles, dextrose, balloons, yeast).

In hindsight the cost is almost as much as a bottle of cider from the store goes for, but for the sake of educating myself in the ways of brewing I still feel its worth it.

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Sounds good. Once you know which works best larger bottles/jugs of juice are much cheaper by volume, so it pays out in the long run.

Bradinator said:

Sounds advice and definitely something I will be doing with my future ciders, but I had neither DME or honey available at my house and I was trying to keep costs down. I think the total cost per bottle works out to about $1.50 a bottle including everything (bottles, dextrose, balloons, yeast).

In hindsight the cost is almost as much as a bottle of cider from the store goes for, but for the sake of educating myself in the ways of brewing I still feel its worth it.

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save those bottles and buy your AJ in bulk next time and I bet you more than cut your costs by 75%

Great idea! I was going to recycle them but saving them makes much more sense and you are very correct on the cost savings of bulk juice. I can bulk buy a 4L of Apple Juice (not concentrate) for around $5 which is enough to fill 8-10 of those bottles easily. Yeast would probably be $3 (for two packs) and $1 for balloons/sugar. That works out to around $1.00 a bottle, possibly less if the bread yeast turns out drinkable or juice can be purchased cheaper. I will absolutely do it that way next time if this works out!

I checked on them again this morning and the balloons on the bread and wine yeast are very inflated, even with the holes. The beer yeast is still limp, though bubbling still. The bread yeast is also very cloudy, though the wine and beer have stayed relatively clear.

And I swear pics to come soon.

So...? Where are the pics!? It's over half a day later!
;-)

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/stupid-pet-cider-tricks-123210/

Here are some of the photos I promised. I will grab a couple more shots when I get back later this week.

Ghetto-fabulous! This is a good way to discover for yourself which yeast you find creates the most palatable drink, although my money is on the Cooper's Ale yeast.

I am thinking its going to be the Wine Yeast myself, but only because I think it will be much dryer (personal preference). I think the bread yeast is going to taste like someone farted in a bottle of apple juice.

you need a picture of the balloons being full

that looks like a great bit of fun !!

I was away the last week so I do not know if they are still inflated or not, but if they are I will grab a couple photographs and put them up tonight.

Okay month one has come and here are the results





Bread Yeast
SG: 1.000 ABV: 8.8%

Not very good. Dry and funky tasting, it reminds me of really cheap wine.

Beer Yeast
SG: 1.020 ABV: 6.1%

Carbonated and slightly sweet. Still can taste the apples in it.

WC-1118 Champagne Yeast
SG 1.000 ABV: 8.8%

Just as dry as the bread yeast, but without the yucky yeast taste to it. Still not very palatable yet.


The beer yeast created brew was the only thing even remotely drinkable. The other two did not make me go blind so I guess I am ahead of the game. Next month I will be sampling again so stay tuned!

This thread continues to draw my attention, I find it pretty interesting to see what can be done with the most basic of equipment! The beer yeast might not quite be done fermenting all of the sugars in the apple juice; it looks slightly carbed in the glass. I would suspect a FG lower than 1.020, perhaps closer to 1.014?

I'll be interested to see your impressions after a month. I guess you'll have enough to repeat for another 3 or so samples... 1 month, 3 months, 6 months?

Ohman, this reminds me of high school. Back then the only booze I would drink would be if I made it myself, which meant that I basically mixed a bunch of fruit juices, added some sugar, and then yeast. Bakers yeast. Good times. I even did this well into my freshman years of college. This takes me back. Well done my friend.

I am currently planning to do this in 1 month, 2 month, 3 months and final 4 month cycles. I don't think I have the patience for a 1, 3, 6 and 12 month intervals

My goal is to see how cheaply, easily and quickly I can make an enjoyable cider.

chondromalasia said:

Ohman, this reminds me of high school. Back then the only booze I would drink would be if I made it myself, which meant that I basically mixed a bunch of fruit juices, added some sugar, and then yeast. Bakers yeast. Good times. I even did this well into my freshman years of college. This takes me back. Well done my friend.

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Same here.

You know what they say... "Cheaply, Easily, or Quickly... at most, you can choose two." ;-)
Cheaply alone? find, grind, press your own apples (trading labor in exchange for $)
Easily alone? Addition of money can purchase a pretty fool-proof rig, where AJ goes in one vent and yeast in another, and then x months later, chilled, bottled, labeled, and probably 1/2 consumed Cider comes out the other end.
Quickly along? I think that's mixing vodka and apple juice concentrate.

But wait, you've thrown a fourth factor into the equation... Enjoyable!

I have made cider cheaply, and easily, and quickly but none were really enjoyable. I have also made binary pears: Cheaply and easily, but not quickly. I have made it quickly and easily, but not cheaply., etc.

The fourth wall is still ss

... OPEN. Sigh. The fourth wall is still wide open.

I am well aware of the 'law of car service' (we can fix fast, we can fix it well and we can fix it cheap, please pick two ) and I can see how it applies to this experiment.

I guess I would have been better off saying, "The most quickly, easily and enjoyable" leave cost out as I do not think the overall cost changes much. Using only the bottles from start to finish of the product though does eliminate the need for racking and cleaning of other fermenters, though I am still unsure of how this will affect the overall flavour.

Guess I won't know until August!:cross:

I hope it turns out well for you. It looks like it would be a neat way to get friends into the hobby, if a no-age enjoyable single-serve could be obtained. "Here, stick this in your pantry until the ballon goes out, then drink it!"

I forgot to ask, how are they for lees? The few small volumn experiments that I've done have usually had noticable amounts of yeast get stirred up by my trying to drink / pour the hard cider, but not rack.

It amazing how much yuck can be returned to the fluid w/ even a small bump. +1 for racking, if you have the batch size and an extra carboy.

Well because this is just for an experiment, I am not overly concerned about the stuff on the bottom and just pour it carefully into my glass during the testing phases. When I find which mixture produces the best tasting product the fastest I will attempt to recreate it in a much larger volume in one of my carboys and just reuse the juice bottles for racking.

This isn't dead yet. Part three is now up:

An Experiment in Brewology – Part 3 | Bradinator.com

Here is the jist of it:

Bread Yeast – SG: 1.000 ABV: 8.8%

Notes: Really strong off flavours, sweet with definite notes of caramel, flat.

Beer Yeast – SG: 1.000 ABV: 8.8%

Notes: SG dropped quite a bit, maybe I misread the hydrometer? Some off-flavours, the most apparent apple juice flavours. Flat.

WC-1118 Champagne Yeast – SG 1.000 ABV: 8.8%

Notes: Most improved flavour. Slightly carbed, almost no funky flavours. Some sweetness left over. Kind of reminded me of Edwort's Apfelwien.

The WC-1118 has improved over time... The others... Well not so much. I think I may wait two months before trying them again to let the off-flavours (hopefully) go away.

Brad,

I like your experiment, but I think a possible flaw is leaving them in those containers for the entire length of time. Once active fermentation is complete, certainly within 30 days, I think it would be better to rack off the yeast and let bulk age. You are probably picking up off flavors from autolysis.

I'm also curious about the beer yeast dropping from 1.020 in your first month's trial to 1.000 in the second. I'm guessing you had contamination in that container that took it down that low. I've never heard of 100% attenuation out of an ale yeast.

I never thought about that. I will rack them off to different bottles and allow them to age properly, but now I am concerned it may be too late and that nasty flavour is there for good.

As for the beer yeast I will double check the Hydrometer reading tonight because the 1.000 SG seemed way to low to be accurate. I was not aware of contamination affecting the SG, but its good to know!

Thanks for the advice.

Bradinator - You do have separate bottles for each time frame right? So oxidation is not an issue.
I don't think leaving on the lees will impart any flavor at least 3-4 months.
Every cider I have made does not come into it's own flavor until 6 months with a beer yeast, and at least 8 months with a wine or champagne yeast.
But please keep us updated.

Well as a man who always chooses the path of least resistance, I think I will just leave them in the bottles and wait for them to ripen a bit more.

@keelan,

I think the reason you're surprised by 100% apparent attenuation in a beer yeast is that it never happens when used with BEER.

However, in apple juice (as I'm beginning to find out), the sugars are so incredibly fermentable that you can, indeed, get down to an FG of 1.000. In apple juice there just aren't any un-fermentables.

Just my 2 cents.

MBM30075 said:

@keelan,

I think the reason you're surprised by 100% apparent attenuation in a beer yeast is that it never happens when used with BEER.

However, in apple juice (as I'm beginning to find out), the sugars are so incredibly fermentable that you can, indeed, get down to an FG of 1.000. In apple juice there just aren't any un-fermentables.

Just my 2 cents.

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Yeah, I thought about that and am running some cider experiments with different yeast and different sugars myself. I've made EdWort's Apfelwein several times and have always ended up with a FG around 0.998 using Montrachet wine yeast. I've ended at similar gravities using Champaigne yeast as well. I just figured a beer yeast would give out sooner, but maybe not. I've got a couple gallons of cider in their second week of fermentation using dry Nottingham Ale Yeast (probably the one recalled, but oh well) and another using a second generation repitch of Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan. Should give some indication for what FG's to expect with cider fermentation.

I think in order to have any residual sweetness with apple juice you have to add enough sugar to boost the alcohol past the tolerance of the yeast, unless you're using some non-fermentable or partially fermentable sweetener. I'm sipping an apfelwein I made with Cooper's beer yeast and it has just a bit of sweetness left, but I added a good bit of additional sugar when I made it. The ones I make with wine yeast are very dry even with added sugar.

I believe it IS possible to overcome a beer yeast's alcohol tolerance, but straight apple juice isn't enough to do so. From my reading, most beer yeasts can tolerate 10%+ if pushed to it, they just rarely do so when a beer is brewed to style.